5 ms·

I don’t think it’d take a long time. They could just replace like one stall with CCS. The most time consuming parts like permitting and power installation on pr

I don’t think it’d take a long time. They could just replace like one stall with CCS. The most time consuming parts like permitting and power installation on premises and stuff already is done. They could convert a decent portion of their network to have one stall with CCS in maybe a couple months. But the Tesla power adapter is superior. Smaller, cheaper, simpler, and more user friendly than the chonky CCS or Chademo plus in the US. (The European plug isn’t so bad.) If I could turn back the clock, I’d open up the Tesla plug and mandate all EV makers use it.

Corrado 5y ago
Tesla has always offered the charging network and patents for anyone to use. The other automakers chose to go another way, unfortunately. I guess it makes sense from their standpoint; you don't want your product tied to a competitor. But it does seem a bit short sighted on their part.
- shmoe 5y ago
  I believe the issue always was they'd have to use Tesla's billing infrastructure as there are no screens etc on the superchargers. I hear you though.
  - mavhc 5y ago
    The standards based version of that is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Charge_Point_Protocol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Charge_Point_Protocol I've no idea if Tesla use something similar. Certificate built into the car.
    - shmoe 5y ago
      Nope.. and every other vendor is having issues implementing it. The ID.4 from VW is awaiting a software update to enable plug and charge. Tesla's is proprietary.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - theluketaylor 5y ago
        Ford Mustang Mach-e has plug and charge. Some users are having good luck with it, but quite a few are experiencing issues. It mostly works at EA locations.
        shmoe 5y ago
        Exactly.. it's not the "no-brainer" it should be at all yet... and it's been this way for quite some time.
        mavhc 5y ago
        Hardware people can't do software. Tesla is more of a software company than any other car maker, that's why they'll win.
- theluketaylor 5y ago
  That was a trojan horse offer. Tesla required anyone accepting the deal to give up their right to ever sue tesla over any patent infringement of any kind. Any automaker's legal department that allowed their boss to sign that would have needed to be immediately fired.
  - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
    I specifically remember Elon stating that anyone could just use the technology without even informing Tesla, so I looked it up: https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=ca6c332f-2cc5-401b-b80d-36473d0754c7 https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=ca6c332f-2cc5... Indeed, there are no documents for executives to sign, but the patents aren't exactly fully free to use either: Tesla promised not to sue any company infringing on its patents as long as they're acting in "good faith," which obviously has a bunch of caveats (one being that you can't sue Tesla over any other patent related issues). The end result is the same: a decent idea ruined by the lawyers.
    - rsynnott 5y ago
      > a decent idea ruined by the lawyers. Or, more cynically, a publicity stunt, facilitated by lawyers. A lot of "look, you can use our patents!" things fall under this umbrella; they're devised in such a way that the company gets some publicity, but no-one can realistically use the patents.
  - derekp7 5y ago
    So it was essentially a cross-licensing deal that allowed other automakers to use Tesla charging tech (did this include other Tesla-owned patents?), but the others would effectively have to license their entire patent portfolio to Tesla (can't sue is not too far from a blanket license to use).
rattray 5y ago
Smart. Depending on the location they might be able to just add a new stall or two with ccs poets and call it a day, and migrate the rest of the stalls more gradually. And of course, use CCS-compatible stalls for all new builds, of which there will probably be a great many as the EV charging station land grab kicks off.
amenghra 5y ago
Countries should have anticipated things and standardized EV charging 10+ years ago. It's not only the plug size, it's also enabling me + my neighbors chargers to communicate so we can optimize load on the electric grid. Standardize amperage so that my experience as a user isn't variable. Etc.
- rattray 5y ago
  If they'd have done that, we'd have missed out on 10+ years of improvements. Now seems like a fine time to standardize, especially since adaptors are feasible.
  - Robotbeat 5y ago
    That’s true. The standard 10 years ago was the Chademo plug. Have any of you ever used it? It is HUGE. It’s like lifting up and plugging in an entire vacuum cleaner into the front of your car. The unveiling of Tesla’s supercharger plug 9 years ago was a game changer, and no one has yet equaled it.
    - giobox 5y ago
      It's true it was the standard on early Japanese electric stuff (the Leaf mainly), but it's a bit of an exaggeration to say Chademo was some kind of industry standard 10 years ago. Chademo itself is a creation of Japanese auto-makers plus Panasonic/TEPCO. The J1772 as well as of course Tesla's connector have been far, far more common sights in North America over the last 10 years. Western auto-makers have almost completely ignored Chademo altogether. CCS is a bit larger a connector but not meaningfully so and is just as capable as the Tesla connector feature wise really - can support 350kw DC fast charging and automated payments etc. I'd be pretty happy if Tesla switched the cars over to a standard design like they've done on the Euro cars, assuming reasonable adapters were offered to existing owners.
- Robotbeat 5y ago
  No advantage to customers to optimize load to the grid unless customers pay less. But we can barely get smart meters rolled out, and the backlash (in social media and mainstream media) against real-time electricity prices was fierce. Annoying to me that so many seemed to completely dismiss the value of real-time electricity prices after the Texas snowstorm, including a lot of people who now talk about the need to decarbonize quickly and make sacrifices in the West.
theluketaylor 5y ago
Making one stall CCS wouldn't be that hard, but without details we have no idea what this will look like or the scope of what Tesla intends to do. This could easily be EU only. I love my model 3 sr+, but am under no illusions about the company failings. Elon shoots his mouth off on twitter all the time and it wouldn't surprise me at all this is the first any tesla staff have heard of this plan, which would mean no one has any idea what this looks like in practice.
kraig 5y ago
Is it superior? I have seen people on YouTube wrapping the connectors in wet rags in order to cool it down enough to charge at maximum watts. I've never used one, our Audi is CCS but we have never had to resort to any antics even in 110f weather.

Corrado 5y ago

Tesla has always offered the charging network and patents for anyone to use. The other automakers chose to go another way, unfortunately. I guess it makes sense from their standpoint; you don't want your product tied to a competitor. But it does seem a bit short sighted on their part.

shmoe 5y ago
I believe the issue always was they'd have to use Tesla's billing infrastructure as there are no screens etc on the superchargers. I hear you though.
- mavhc 5y ago
  The standards based version of that is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Charge_Point_Protocol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Charge_Point_Protocol I've no idea if Tesla use something similar. Certificate built into the car.
  - shmoe 5y ago
    Nope.. and every other vendor is having issues implementing it. The ID.4 from VW is awaiting a software update to enable plug and charge. Tesla's is proprietary.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - theluketaylor 5y ago
      Ford Mustang Mach-e has plug and charge. Some users are having good luck with it, but quite a few are experiencing issues. It mostly works at EA locations.
      - shmoe 5y ago
        Exactly.. it's not the "no-brainer" it should be at all yet... and it's been this way for quite some time.
        mavhc 5y ago
        Hardware people can't do software. Tesla is more of a software company than any other car maker, that's why they'll win.
theluketaylor 5y ago
That was a trojan horse offer. Tesla required anyone accepting the deal to give up their right to ever sue tesla over any patent infringement of any kind. Any automaker's legal department that allowed their boss to sign that would have needed to be immediately fired.
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
  I specifically remember Elon stating that anyone could just use the technology without even informing Tesla, so I looked it up: https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=ca6c332f-2cc5-401b-b80d-36473d0754c7 https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=ca6c332f-2cc5... Indeed, there are no documents for executives to sign, but the patents aren't exactly fully free to use either: Tesla promised not to sue any company infringing on its patents as long as they're acting in "good faith," which obviously has a bunch of caveats (one being that you can't sue Tesla over any other patent related issues). The end result is the same: a decent idea ruined by the lawyers.
  - rsynnott 5y ago
    > a decent idea ruined by the lawyers. Or, more cynically, a publicity stunt, facilitated by lawyers. A lot of "look, you can use our patents!" things fall under this umbrella; they're devised in such a way that the company gets some publicity, but no-one can realistically use the patents.
- derekp7 5y ago
  So it was essentially a cross-licensing deal that allowed other automakers to use Tesla charging tech (did this include other Tesla-owned patents?), but the others would effectively have to license their entire patent portfolio to Tesla (can't sue is not too far from a blanket license to use).

rattray 5y ago

Smart. Depending on the location they might be able to just add a new stall or two with ccs poets and call it a day, and migrate the rest of the stalls more gradually. And of course, use CCS-compatible stalls for all new builds, of which there will probably be a great many as the EV charging station land grab kicks off.

amenghra 5y ago

Countries should have anticipated things and standardized EV charging 10+ years ago. It's not only the plug size, it's also enabling me + my neighbors chargers to communicate so we can optimize load on the electric grid. Standardize amperage so that my experience as a user isn't variable. Etc.

rattray 5y ago
If they'd have done that, we'd have missed out on 10+ years of improvements. Now seems like a fine time to standardize, especially since adaptors are feasible.
- Robotbeat 5y ago
  That’s true. The standard 10 years ago was the Chademo plug. Have any of you ever used it? It is HUGE. It’s like lifting up and plugging in an entire vacuum cleaner into the front of your car. The unveiling of Tesla’s supercharger plug 9 years ago was a game changer, and no one has yet equaled it.
  - giobox 5y ago
    It's true it was the standard on early Japanese electric stuff (the Leaf mainly), but it's a bit of an exaggeration to say Chademo was some kind of industry standard 10 years ago. Chademo itself is a creation of Japanese auto-makers plus Panasonic/TEPCO. The J1772 as well as of course Tesla's connector have been far, far more common sights in North America over the last 10 years. Western auto-makers have almost completely ignored Chademo altogether. CCS is a bit larger a connector but not meaningfully so and is just as capable as the Tesla connector feature wise really - can support 350kw DC fast charging and automated payments etc. I'd be pretty happy if Tesla switched the cars over to a standard design like they've done on the Euro cars, assuming reasonable adapters were offered to existing owners.
Robotbeat 5y ago
No advantage to customers to optimize load to the grid unless customers pay less. But we can barely get smart meters rolled out, and the backlash (in social media and mainstream media) against real-time electricity prices was fierce. Annoying to me that so many seemed to completely dismiss the value of real-time electricity prices after the Texas snowstorm, including a lot of people who now talk about the need to decarbonize quickly and make sacrifices in the West.

theluketaylor 5y ago

Making one stall CCS wouldn't be that hard, but without details we have no idea what this will look like or the scope of what Tesla intends to do. This could easily be EU only. I love my model 3 sr+, but am under no illusions about the company failings. Elon shoots his mouth off on twitter all the time and it wouldn't surprise me at all this is the first any tesla staff have heard of this plan, which would mean no one has any idea what this looks like in practice.

kraig 5y ago

Is it superior? I have seen people on YouTube wrapping the connectors in wet rags in order to cool it down enough to charge at maximum watts. I've never used one, our Audi is CCS but we have never had to resort to any antics even in 110f weather.