14 ms·

(In the US) Tesla uses a proprietary standard. Every other EV manufacturer uses CCS for high-speed charging. (Chademo was dropped.) The Tesla Supercharger netw

(In the US) Tesla uses a proprietary standard. Every other EV manufacturer uses CCS for high-speed charging. (Chademo was dropped.) The Tesla Supercharger network is just like Betamax: Tesla has a good first mover advantage, just like Sony did. But once every EV sold has a CCS connector, it's not going to make sense to buy a Tesla that can only charge at Tesla's proprietary charging network. Once VHS was on the scene, the Betamax format struggled. And just like Betamax, there will be people who argue until they're blue in the face that Tesla's charger is better than CCS. (Betamax was, in practice worse than VHS. It was more expensive, and because the tapes were physically smaller, feature length films used slower tape speeds, and thus had lower picture quality. Even the supposed better picture quality of Betamax was too small to notice.)

msoad 5y ago
I own a Tesla, I don't know why I should care about other charging stations. Tesla's supercharger network is more than enough for road trips and in city I live in I just charge at home. Not sure why Tesla should be worried about their connector format "losing" to competition.
- duped 5y ago
  Not everyone can charge at home, and access to charging infrastructure is a selling point for those people.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    Most folks I know without home charging charge at Superchargers at grocery stores (Meijer grocery stores, specifically, who have an arrangement with Tesla for colocating Supercharge stations, although I've also seen Tesla 72kw urban chargers at higher end groceries in urban areas such as Chicago). Their vehicle is charged back up before their ~weekly grocery shopping trip is complete, and in some cases their employer has installed a J1772 charging station for them (and provides free electricity) as a perk. Those J1772 stations are very reasonably priced compared to a DC fast charger. As long as Tesla can continue to colocate fast chargers at places urban dwellers must frequent (which is likely based on their experience and the brand value), it's a non issue imho. I've seen lots of Electrify America charging stations, but there might as well be tumbleweeds rolling through with how rare it is to see someone charging at one.
- nrjames 5y ago
  Furthermore, an inexpensive adapter makes the issue moot both for Tesla owners and owners of other EVs.
- turbinerneiter 5y ago
  Because not everyone can charge at home and in cities people will rely on curbside charging, for which Tesla has no answer. The question will be: how big is the market of people who can afford a Tesla, but live in an apartment building with no possibilty to install a charger in the garage. I don't think it's a live threatening issue for Tesla, but at some point they will need to solve it. I guess adapters will do.
  - hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
    > Because not everyone can charge at home and in cities people will rely on curbside charging, for which Tesla has no answer. Sorry, totally disagree that EVs (electric only, not hybrids) will be viable for more than a teeny percentage of apartment dwellers if their building doesn't support charging. Curbside charging just won't cut it for most people, for the simple fact that the most common time when people want to charge their cars at night, when the car is in their garage.
    - taken_username 5y ago
      Assumption: everyone has a garage!
      - hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
        I was thinking of an apartment building garage in that statement, but all of my reasoning goes the same for an apartment building parking lot.
        freemint 5y ago
        Mandatory parking area is not that excessive as it is inside the USoA all over the world. Those mandatory parking area laws are on the mayor contributors to urban sprawl (where every family needs a 2 car garage and therefore has one).
    - ericd 5y ago
      Why? I have friends who can’t charge at home, and just charge at superchargers. Not ideal, but they seem fine with it. It’s not like the cars take that long to charge, and their range is such that you only need to do that maybe once a week with a normal commute.
- sudhirj 5y ago
  Because they can’t sell their cars in locations where they haven’t built out a supercharger network, which is still most of the world. The more interoperable standard will win there. Starting a supercharging station worldwide is very different from doing it in a few first world countries.
  - dahfizz 5y ago
    Do a lot of $50,000+ cars get sold in third world countries? I'm not sure those markets are a priority for Tesla.
    - sudhirj 5y ago
      Would seem that way, but yeah. A car affordable to 10% of a 100 million people and 1% of a billion people is the same market size.
    - michaelt 5y ago
      The UK has a Tesla charging network, but it's very sparse in places [1] - if you're in Peterborough the nearest Tesla charger is 40 minutes drive away. A bunch of other networks have chargers that are much closer. I suppose you could argue the UK is a third world country, of course :) [1] https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/trips https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/trips
      - dahfizz 5y ago
        The UK is also tiny. You don't need superchargers in every neighborhood, because people charge the cars at home. There are ample superchargers to get you anywhere in the UK you would want to go.
    - fakedang 5y ago
      The district in India where my grandmother was from was the poorest in that state, and one of the poorest in India overall. In the span of the past 20 years (one generational transition), that district has transformed into one of the more affluent districts in the state, as well as the biggest car market in the country, especially for luxury cars such as BMW, Mercedes, Jeep and Range Rover. And also 0.1% of Indians or Africans is still 1 million potential customers or 300k cars sold potentially. Or $15B each market. So yeah, it makes sense to pay attention to the third world too.
- gwbas1c 5y ago
  Honestly, I suspect that most businesses like restaurants and other attractions that anyone would want to stop on during a long drive will have a high-speed charger in the parking lot. When that happens, I doubt that it will be any format other than CCS. I also bet Tesla owners will grumble that they need to use an adapter when no one else has to.
0x0 5y ago
In the EU, Tesla cars (even cars built and shipped from the US) and Tesla superchargers use CCS.
tompccs 5y ago
I don't think you can compare the network effect of people with VCRs and charging networks. Each person only needs 1 VCR, in their own home, and it's not that expensive to switch to the dominant format. Charging on the other hand has a huge compounding network effect. Your electric car is only as good as the density of its network, and right now Tesla has a huge lead. I'd wager that the supercharger standard isn't going anywhere. I'd also add that we already have two mutually compatible fuels for cars: diesel and petrol. In practice, every petrol station simply supports both fuels.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- neogodless 5y ago
  > Your electric car is only as good as the density of its network Presumably this is somewhat true for marketing and removing obstacles for potential EV buyers, and in practical terms, for long trips. But short of those long trips, the network is not a big factor in the quality or usability of the EV.
  - seniorivn 5y ago
    having a vehicle that is not capable of long distance trips is a no go for everyone who can't afford more than one car that being said, owning a cheap(but good quality) short range ev for every family member and a regular huge car for long trips is the best way to go https://www.aptera.us/ https://www.aptera.us/ this might be it, though it can be ordered with 1000miles range, so not necessarily short range
    - myko 5y ago
      Wow! I was excited about these folks way back. They completely shuttered in 2011. I'm glad to see them back, though by now I've got on the Tesla bandwagon.
- danso 5y ago
  I would think it'd be very hard for Betamax adopters to switch their machine and their collection to VHS, especially if they lived in an area where there was mostly Betamax retailers.
ZeroGravitas 5y ago
You may not be aware, but you've stumbled into a bitterly fought political battle with that analogy. Some extreme free-market supporters dont like anyone claiming the better item lost out in the open market, and will go to great lengths to discredit those claims. But be aware they're not actually experts in whatever field they're wading into, they just know what the conclusion that supports their employers is and argue for that. So, they take the side of "VHS was better than Betamax", "Climate change isn't real" "Qwerty is better than Dvorak" etc. but the various opinions are all tied to the same belief system: "don't interfere with the people currently winning in the market because they are paying me to say that".
- pfraze 5y ago
  The better market does always win in the market! Now, define "better."
  - gameswithgo 5y ago
    you would have to include marketing of product and luck as part of the product which gets kind of weird.
- ericmay 5y ago
  Idk how you go from free-market supporters think X to "free market supporters believe climate change isn't real". First, I'm a free market supporter. So are you. You like buying stuff, and think companies should exist and all that right? And you believe in climate change, right? Second, most often the more zealous free market supporters don't tend to think that climate change isn't real but that the solution lies in market solutions instead of government intervention. Personally, I disagree, but I don't think it's fair to just assert that people like me don't "believe in climate change" by supporting free markets. You're typing this on HackerNews, a forum hosted by YCombinator which is the most capitalist and free-market type of organization that exists!
  - epistasis 5y ago
    The comment you're replying to is talking about people who take free-market supremacy as a fundamental axiom that is used as the basis to reject empirical evidence. As in, somebody who would think along the lines "climate change can't actually be a problem, because if it were, the market would have recognized it and be adapting to the problem." Or, "these credit default swaps must be well founded, because it would be impossible for a free market of financial products to misvalue them." Or "The Dvorak keyboard layout must be worse otherwise the free market would have chosen it over QWERTY." These are all real opinions that many people encounter in the real world and have to fight against.
drewg123 5y ago
There are adapters from the NA Tesla standard to CCS. See https://www.setec-power.com/ccs-adapter/ https://www.setec-power.com/ccs-adapter/ That said, as a Model X owner, I've never felt the need to seek out other charging in almost 4 years of ownership, and roughly 10k miles road-tripping.
- phkahler 5y ago
  So you've never needed to use another network (good for you) but advocate for an adapter that works with only about half the other chargers out there... Google compatibility issues with that ;-)
  - TomVDB 5y ago
    He’s stating facts. He’s not advocating.
  - drewg123 5y ago
    I just scanned the thread for it on the tesalmotorsclub forums. My (admittedly quick) reading is that it had lots of f/w glitches early, and that there are charging limits imposed by 3/Y and newer S/X which lead to the glitchy reputation. And that's multiplied by the general unreliability of non-Tesla chargers, so that makes things even worse. That said, I have an older Model X where there is apparently no artificially imposed limit. If Tesla chargers become much more occupied due to non-Tesla's using them, I might pick up one of these adapters for my next road trip.
kayhi 5y ago
I'm trying to appreciate your analogy, but perhaps Tesla charges are better than the more open version unlike Betamax.
- Robotbeat 5y ago
  Better and cheaper, since it’s smaller than the CCS plug.
- gwbas1c 5y ago
  The Tesla charger is more elegant than CCS, although I anticipate the following problems: 1: With CCS, the physically larger connector communicates to the customer that it's a high-speed charger. A lot of people don't understand the difference between slow and fast charging. (You can even see it in this thread where people don't know that they can't plug their Tesla into a CCS charger.) 2: CCS has bigger pins, which means it can carry higher amperage. There's no way to work around that situation with the Tesla connector. (The bigger pin difference also, ironically, boosts the VHS vs. Betamax analogy. Betamax's biggest problem was that the tapes were physically too small, thus cutting either playback time or picture quality.)
rPlayer6554 5y ago
It seems like Tesla is adding CCS ports, at least to their European chargers.[0] There are also adapters to go the other way.[1] I am sure at some point Tesla might just switch over to CCS unless there is something better about the Tesla connection. I don't really know enough about this to comment on the benefits of either. [0] https://electrek.co/2018/11/14/tesla-model-3-ccs-2-plug-europe-adapter-model-s-model-x/ https://electrek.co/2018/11/14/tesla-model-3-ccs-2-plug-euro... [1]https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/CCS/CCS_Combo_2_Adapter_en.pdf https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/CCS/CCS_Combo_2_Ad...
- ericd 5y ago
  Isn’t the CCS connector much larger than the Tesla one? If there are no big inherent advantages to it, I’m not sure why Tesla should switch in the US?
  - rPlayer6554 5y ago
    If the CCS network becomes big enough that it puts Tesla owners at a major disadvantage, then it's possible. Maybe I shouldn't say I'm sure....the Tesla network already has a major headstart so it might continue it's dominance.
amenghra 5y ago
It's not really apples to apples since you can get adapters for these chargers.
jayflux 5y ago
That’s a bit like saying everyone will drop IPhone once USB-C is standard on other phones. It just doesn’t work like that, cars are a status symbol for a lot of people where as VCRs are pure functionality, there will be more to the decision making process than just “other charging networks catching up”. I get your analogy but it’s not a good one
- fogof 5y ago
  You don't usually use other people's chargers to charge your phone. Compatibility between EV chargers would be very useful though: I've had the experience of having to carefully plan a Tesla road trip from the Bay Area to LA around the locations and distances between Tesla Supercharging stations. I can see how having, at the very least, a converter to access other charging stations would be convenient.
  - beached_whale 5y ago
    My friend is able to use other charging networks on their model3. I think that there is an adaptor
    - gwbas1c 5y ago
      The adapter is for slower charging, not CCS.
      - alexisread 5y ago
        Looks like the CCS adaptor can do 350kw https://youtu.be/ZwW3UBEgyew https://youtu.be/ZwW3UBEgyew
      - xeromal 5y ago
        No, there's a Chademo adapter for Teslas in NA. I use it every week.
    - mikepurvis 5y ago
      I think most of the discussion here is about the other way around— allowing non-Tesla vehicles access to the Superchargers.
Railsify 5y ago
Is CCS just a physical standard? If so, can I buy a smart adapter?
gameswithgo 5y ago
you can adapter these things though so it isn’t like betamax
Robotbeat 5y ago
Unlike Betamax, the Tesla plug is cheaper to make than the Chademo or CCS plugs.
jccooper 5y ago
Tesla seems to be testing a CCS adapter. With such a thing, which doesn't seen like high barrier, a Tesla would be able to use both networks.
einarfd 5y ago
In Norway, Tesla has since introducing the Model 3, added dual cables, where you can charge either your old style plug or your CCS plug Tesla. At all of their supercharging stations, while also expanding their network at a rapid pace. I definitely do not get that what they have already done once, can't be repeated elsewhere. My impression when it comes to fast chargers are that the most expensive parts of setting them up, is getting the power infrastructure from the grid to the station. Zoning might also be something that is time consuming. But neither of these have any impact on the plug to the car. So maybe the current US Tesla charger network is Betamax, but retrofitting it to do both VHS and Betamax shouldn't be that hard, and they've done it once already, somewhere else. So I don't see the problem.
nickik 5y ago
When you mostly charge at home and mostly use supercharger on the roads its really no issue. If your really go to a place where there is no Supercharger and only a CCS, adopters exists and Tesla could easly sell them. Btw, what you miss is that other networks can adopt the Tesla charger. EVGo for example will have many of Tesla Proprietary charger on their stations.

msoad 5y ago

I own a Tesla, I don't know why I should care about other charging stations. Tesla's supercharger network is more than enough for road trips and in city I live in I just charge at home. Not sure why Tesla should be worried about their connector format "losing" to competition.

duped 5y ago
Not everyone can charge at home, and access to charging infrastructure is a selling point for those people.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  Most folks I know without home charging charge at Superchargers at grocery stores (Meijer grocery stores, specifically, who have an arrangement with Tesla for colocating Supercharge stations, although I've also seen Tesla 72kw urban chargers at higher end groceries in urban areas such as Chicago). Their vehicle is charged back up before their ~weekly grocery shopping trip is complete, and in some cases their employer has installed a J1772 charging station for them (and provides free electricity) as a perk. Those J1772 stations are very reasonably priced compared to a DC fast charger. As long as Tesla can continue to colocate fast chargers at places urban dwellers must frequent (which is likely based on their experience and the brand value), it's a non issue imho. I've seen lots of Electrify America charging stations, but there might as well be tumbleweeds rolling through with how rare it is to see someone charging at one.
nrjames 5y ago
Furthermore, an inexpensive adapter makes the issue moot both for Tesla owners and owners of other EVs.
turbinerneiter 5y ago
Because not everyone can charge at home and in cities people will rely on curbside charging, for which Tesla has no answer. The question will be: how big is the market of people who can afford a Tesla, but live in an apartment building with no possibilty to install a charger in the garage. I don't think it's a live threatening issue for Tesla, but at some point they will need to solve it. I guess adapters will do.
- hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
  > Because not everyone can charge at home and in cities people will rely on curbside charging, for which Tesla has no answer. Sorry, totally disagree that EVs (electric only, not hybrids) will be viable for more than a teeny percentage of apartment dwellers if their building doesn't support charging. Curbside charging just won't cut it for most people, for the simple fact that the most common time when people want to charge their cars at night, when the car is in their garage.
  - taken_username 5y ago
    Assumption: everyone has a garage!
    - hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
      I was thinking of an apartment building garage in that statement, but all of my reasoning goes the same for an apartment building parking lot.
      - freemint 5y ago
        Mandatory parking area is not that excessive as it is inside the USoA all over the world. Those mandatory parking area laws are on the mayor contributors to urban sprawl (where every family needs a 2 car garage and therefore has one).
  - ericd 5y ago
    Why? I have friends who can’t charge at home, and just charge at superchargers. Not ideal, but they seem fine with it. It’s not like the cars take that long to charge, and their range is such that you only need to do that maybe once a week with a normal commute.
sudhirj 5y ago
Because they can’t sell their cars in locations where they haven’t built out a supercharger network, which is still most of the world. The more interoperable standard will win there. Starting a supercharging station worldwide is very different from doing it in a few first world countries.
- dahfizz 5y ago
  Do a lot of $50,000+ cars get sold in third world countries? I'm not sure those markets are a priority for Tesla.
  - sudhirj 5y ago
    Would seem that way, but yeah. A car affordable to 10% of a 100 million people and 1% of a billion people is the same market size.
  - michaelt 5y ago
    The UK has a Tesla charging network, but it's very sparse in places [1] - if you're in Peterborough the nearest Tesla charger is 40 minutes drive away. A bunch of other networks have chargers that are much closer. I suppose you could argue the UK is a third world country, of course :) [1] https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/trips https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/trips
    - dahfizz 5y ago
      The UK is also tiny. You don't need superchargers in every neighborhood, because people charge the cars at home. There are ample superchargers to get you anywhere in the UK you would want to go.
  - fakedang 5y ago
    The district in India where my grandmother was from was the poorest in that state, and one of the poorest in India overall. In the span of the past 20 years (one generational transition), that district has transformed into one of the more affluent districts in the state, as well as the biggest car market in the country, especially for luxury cars such as BMW, Mercedes, Jeep and Range Rover. And also 0.1% of Indians or Africans is still 1 million potential customers or 300k cars sold potentially. Or $15B each market. So yeah, it makes sense to pay attention to the third world too.
gwbas1c 5y ago
Honestly, I suspect that most businesses like restaurants and other attractions that anyone would want to stop on during a long drive will have a high-speed charger in the parking lot. When that happens, I doubt that it will be any format other than CCS. I also bet Tesla owners will grumble that they need to use an adapter when no one else has to.

0x0 5y ago

In the EU, Tesla cars (even cars built and shipped from the US) and Tesla superchargers use CCS.

tompccs 5y ago

I don't think you can compare the network effect of people with VCRs and charging networks. Each person only needs 1 VCR, in their own home, and it's not that expensive to switch to the dominant format. Charging on the other hand has a huge compounding network effect. Your electric car is only as good as the density of its network, and right now Tesla has a huge lead. I'd wager that the supercharger standard isn't going anywhere. I'd also add that we already have two mutually compatible fuels for cars: diesel and petrol. In practice, every petrol station simply supports both fuels.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
neogodless 5y ago
> Your electric car is only as good as the density of its network Presumably this is somewhat true for marketing and removing obstacles for potential EV buyers, and in practical terms, for long trips. But short of those long trips, the network is not a big factor in the quality or usability of the EV.
- seniorivn 5y ago
  having a vehicle that is not capable of long distance trips is a no go for everyone who can't afford more than one car that being said, owning a cheap(but good quality) short range ev for every family member and a regular huge car for long trips is the best way to go https://www.aptera.us/ https://www.aptera.us/ this might be it, though it can be ordered with 1000miles range, so not necessarily short range
  - myko 5y ago
    Wow! I was excited about these folks way back. They completely shuttered in 2011. I'm glad to see them back, though by now I've got on the Tesla bandwagon.
danso 5y ago
I would think it'd be very hard for Betamax adopters to switch their machine and their collection to VHS, especially if they lived in an area where there was mostly Betamax retailers.

ZeroGravitas 5y ago

You may not be aware, but you've stumbled into a bitterly fought political battle with that analogy. Some extreme free-market supporters dont like anyone claiming the better item lost out in the open market, and will go to great lengths to discredit those claims. But be aware they're not actually experts in whatever field they're wading into, they just know what the conclusion that supports their employers is and argue for that. So, they take the side of "VHS was better than Betamax", "Climate change isn't real" "Qwerty is better than Dvorak" etc. but the various opinions are all tied to the same belief system: "don't interfere with the people currently winning in the market because they are paying me to say that".

pfraze 5y ago
The better market does always win in the market! Now, define "better."
- gameswithgo 5y ago
  you would have to include marketing of product and luck as part of the product which gets kind of weird.
ericmay 5y ago
Idk how you go from free-market supporters think X to "free market supporters believe climate change isn't real". First, I'm a free market supporter. So are you. You like buying stuff, and think companies should exist and all that right? And you believe in climate change, right? Second, most often the more zealous free market supporters don't tend to think that climate change isn't real but that the solution lies in market solutions instead of government intervention. Personally, I disagree, but I don't think it's fair to just assert that people like me don't "believe in climate change" by supporting free markets. You're typing this on HackerNews, a forum hosted by YCombinator which is the most capitalist and free-market type of organization that exists!
- epistasis 5y ago
  The comment you're replying to is talking about people who take free-market supremacy as a fundamental axiom that is used as the basis to reject empirical evidence. As in, somebody who would think along the lines "climate change can't actually be a problem, because if it were, the market would have recognized it and be adapting to the problem." Or, "these credit default swaps must be well founded, because it would be impossible for a free market of financial products to misvalue them." Or "The Dvorak keyboard layout must be worse otherwise the free market would have chosen it over QWERTY." These are all real opinions that many people encounter in the real world and have to fight against.

drewg123 5y ago

There are adapters from the NA Tesla standard to CCS. See https://www.setec-power.com/ccs-adapter/ https://www.setec-power.com/ccs-adapter/ That said, as a Model X owner, I've never felt the need to seek out other charging in almost 4 years of ownership, and roughly 10k miles road-tripping.

phkahler 5y ago
So you've never needed to use another network (good for you) but advocate for an adapter that works with only about half the other chargers out there... Google compatibility issues with that ;-)
- TomVDB 5y ago
  He’s stating facts. He’s not advocating.
- drewg123 5y ago
  I just scanned the thread for it on the tesalmotorsclub forums. My (admittedly quick) reading is that it had lots of f/w glitches early, and that there are charging limits imposed by 3/Y and newer S/X which lead to the glitchy reputation. And that's multiplied by the general unreliability of non-Tesla chargers, so that makes things even worse. That said, I have an older Model X where there is apparently no artificially imposed limit. If Tesla chargers become much more occupied due to non-Tesla's using them, I might pick up one of these adapters for my next road trip.

kayhi 5y ago

I'm trying to appreciate your analogy, but perhaps Tesla charges are better than the more open version unlike Betamax.

Robotbeat 5y ago
Better and cheaper, since it’s smaller than the CCS plug.
gwbas1c 5y ago
The Tesla charger is more elegant than CCS, although I anticipate the following problems: 1: With CCS, the physically larger connector communicates to the customer that it's a high-speed charger. A lot of people don't understand the difference between slow and fast charging. (You can even see it in this thread where people don't know that they can't plug their Tesla into a CCS charger.) 2: CCS has bigger pins, which means it can carry higher amperage. There's no way to work around that situation with the Tesla connector. (The bigger pin difference also, ironically, boosts the VHS vs. Betamax analogy. Betamax's biggest problem was that the tapes were physically too small, thus cutting either playback time or picture quality.)

rPlayer6554 5y ago

It seems like Tesla is adding CCS ports, at least to their European chargers.[0] There are also adapters to go the other way.[1] I am sure at some point Tesla might just switch over to CCS unless there is something better about the Tesla connection. I don't really know enough about this to comment on the benefits of either. [0] https://electrek.co/2018/11/14/tesla-model-3-ccs-2-plug-europe-adapter-model-s-model-x/ https://electrek.co/2018/11/14/tesla-model-3-ccs-2-plug-euro... [1]https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/CCS/CCS_Combo_2_Adapter_en.pdf https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/CCS/CCS_Combo_2_Ad...

ericd 5y ago
Isn’t the CCS connector much larger than the Tesla one? If there are no big inherent advantages to it, I’m not sure why Tesla should switch in the US?
- rPlayer6554 5y ago
  If the CCS network becomes big enough that it puts Tesla owners at a major disadvantage, then it's possible. Maybe I shouldn't say I'm sure....the Tesla network already has a major headstart so it might continue it's dominance.

amenghra 5y ago

It's not really apples to apples since you can get adapters for these chargers.

jayflux 5y ago

That’s a bit like saying everyone will drop IPhone once USB-C is standard on other phones. It just doesn’t work like that, cars are a status symbol for a lot of people where as VCRs are pure functionality, there will be more to the decision making process than just “other charging networks catching up”. I get your analogy but it’s not a good one

fogof 5y ago
You don't usually use other people's chargers to charge your phone. Compatibility between EV chargers would be very useful though: I've had the experience of having to carefully plan a Tesla road trip from the Bay Area to LA around the locations and distances between Tesla Supercharging stations. I can see how having, at the very least, a converter to access other charging stations would be convenient.
- beached_whale 5y ago
  My friend is able to use other charging networks on their model3. I think that there is an adaptor
  - gwbas1c 5y ago
    The adapter is for slower charging, not CCS.
    - alexisread 5y ago
      Looks like the CCS adaptor can do 350kw https://youtu.be/ZwW3UBEgyew https://youtu.be/ZwW3UBEgyew
    - xeromal 5y ago
      No, there's a Chademo adapter for Teslas in NA. I use it every week.
  - mikepurvis 5y ago
    I think most of the discussion here is about the other way around— allowing non-Tesla vehicles access to the Superchargers.

Railsify 5y ago

Is CCS just a physical standard? If so, can I buy a smart adapter?

gameswithgo 5y ago

you can adapter these things though so it isn’t like betamax

Robotbeat 5y ago

Unlike Betamax, the Tesla plug is cheaper to make than the Chademo or CCS plugs.

jccooper 5y ago

Tesla seems to be testing a CCS adapter. With such a thing, which doesn't seen like high barrier, a Tesla would be able to use both networks.

einarfd 5y ago

In Norway, Tesla has since introducing the Model 3, added dual cables, where you can charge either your old style plug or your CCS plug Tesla. At all of their supercharging stations, while also expanding their network at a rapid pace. I definitely do not get that what they have already done once, can't be repeated elsewhere. My impression when it comes to fast chargers are that the most expensive parts of setting them up, is getting the power infrastructure from the grid to the station. Zoning might also be something that is time consuming. But neither of these have any impact on the plug to the car. So maybe the current US Tesla charger network is Betamax, but retrofitting it to do both VHS and Betamax shouldn't be that hard, and they've done it once already, somewhere else. So I don't see the problem.

nickik 5y ago

When you mostly charge at home and mostly use supercharger on the roads its really no issue. If your really go to a place where there is no Supercharger and only a CCS, adopters exists and Tesla could easly sell them. Btw, what you miss is that other networks can adopt the Tesla charger. EVGo for example will have many of Tesla Proprietary charger on their stations.