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Dubai is making its own fake rain to beat 122°F heat
- bko 5y ago> The enhanced rain is created using drone technology that unleashes electrical charges into clouds in order for them to clump together and form precipitation...Applying electrical shocks to clouds is preferred as it doesn’t require the use of chemicals. Sounds pretty innocuous. I'm looking forward to reading comments about how this is dangerous and could cause unintended consequences. Only thing I can think of is perhaps that could reduce rainfall in neighboring areas which would have received the rain.
- afavour 5y ago> Only thing I can think of is perhaps that could reduce rainfall in neighboring areas which would have received the rain. …which seems significant, no? If you fast forward to a water deprived future (uh, present?) and give nation states the ability to take water that would have fallen on neighbouring countries and take it for themselves… I don’t see how that ends well. Don’t get me wrong, the technology is fascinating and on purely technological terms it’s a great development. But yes, it could lead to some strange outcomes.
- kwertyoowiyop 5y agoThe Tragedy of the Commons takes to the skies.
- Y_Y 5y agoMonty Python's Flying Surcharge
- dr1s 5y agoClouds can also just evaporate if the temperature is hot enough, like in a desert. Regardless I think it's better to use this kind of method for cloud-seeding then the pumping chemicals into the air, which seems to be the common method.
- rjmunro 5y agoIf a cloud "evaporates", the water is still in the air and will condense into clouds and rain at some point somewhere else. It can't just disappear.
- peeters 5y agoIt's not like this is a new concept. Geopolitical considerations come into play all the time with shared waterbodies. Canada and the U.S. have treaties governing the Great Lakes, Egypt threatens war with Ethiopia over the dam on the Blue Nile, etc.
- bbarnett 5y agoIndeed https://columbiainsight.org/how-and-why-to-fix-the-u-s-canada-columbia-river-treaty/ https://columbiainsight.org/how-and-why-to-fix-the-u-s-canad...
- nojito 5y agoThis already happens with dams which is arguably more devastating than rain cloud seeding.
- jamal-kumar 5y agoGreat point - also not to mention footgunning enormous bodies of water even within a nation http://www.columbia.edu/~tmt2120/introduction.htm http://www.columbia.edu/~tmt2120/introduction.htm
- Arrath 5y agoSounds like the next iteration of downstream countries getting mad at upstream countries building dams on rivers. E.G. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-50328647 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-50328647
- hfjtntnfjfk 5y agoLike many things, it's about quantity. Nobody would mind if there was one place on Earth which we would pollute in an extreme way. The problem is when we are polluting all over the place. Now imagine if every major city started doing weather engineering. It's unlikely that we would be able to have a giant effect, there is only so much energy we can put out, but local consequences could be pretty drastic. OTOH, local consequences will kind of fall in the same country.
- _Understated_ 5y agoThe other comments here talk about hoarding potential for rain in the future and depriving others of it but what about weaponising it? You could potentially annihilate your enemy by generating masses of rainfall and destroying their infrastructure could you not? It wouldn't be as targetted as a missile strike but you could easily say "it wasn't me!"...
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- thebean11 5y agoIf you have the ability to freely fly a bunch of drones in enemy territory there’s a lot of stuff you can do.
- dylan604 5y ago<sarcasm>No need to invade! You could just build a large antenna array to control the weather: https://presscore.ca/news/haarp-mandated-to-create-floods-to-destroy-worlds-food-supply-and-kill-billions/ https://presscore.ca/news/haarp-mandated-to-create-floods-to... There are some crazy stories related to the HAARP program including opening holes in the ozone layer which caused instaneous skin burning to anyone caught under the hole. Even back in the early days of the internet, it was obvious how the conspiracy circles were going to flourish and push the drek to world. I had never heard of presscore.ca, but based on this article alone, I now know to hopefully never see it again except for examples like in this case.
- blooalien 5y agoCrazy thing about the "tinfoil hatters" is that they'll fight to the death to defend their pet conspiracy, but it's impossible for them to believe the much more plausible conspiracy theory that certain huge corporate interests conspired to sell out the entirety of humanity for ridiculous gobs and truckloads of short-term profits.
- throw1234651234 5y ago
- truculent 5y agoAre there any known side-effects of inducing rain in an unusual place like this? The weather is a complex system, so I hesitate to speculate too much, but would it reduce rainfall elsewhere? With geopolitical tensions rising over rights to the Nile, I wonder if rainfall patterns could follow a similar trend.
- bigbassroller 5y agoThe amazon rain forest relies on minerals blown from dust storms in the Sahara desert, so therefore terraforming the Sahara would have a negative effect on the amazon. Source https://youtu.be/2hmAeLYMrQg https://youtu.be/2hmAeLYMrQg
- treeman79 5y agoWait 20,000 years and they’ll swap positions. https://phys.org/news/2019-01-sahara-swung-lush-conditions-years.html https://phys.org/news/2019-01-sahara-swung-lush-conditions-y...
- edgyquant 5y agoWhile this is true there’s a huge difference between adding rain to Dubai and terraforming the Sahara.
- mrweasel 5y ago> would it reduce rainfall elsewhere? It will. I think it was The Economist, but it might have been some other magazine, who had an article recently, regarding Chinas usage of cloud seeding. You're potentially "stealing" rain from other countries or regions. If it was just going into the ocean, then maybe it's fine, but if you're stealing it from a neighbouring country.
- pier25 5y agoThis reminded me of the "I drink your milkshake" scene from "There Will Be Blood".
- jmiskovic 5y agoI got interested in drone tech and this source has more info: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/27/middleeast/clouds-electricity-rain-spc-intl/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/27/middleeast/clouds-electri...
- haunter 5y agoaka cloud seeding, a lot of country does this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding
- cataflam 5y ago> The enhanced rain is created using drone technology that unleashes electrical charges into clouds (..) > Applying electrical shocks to clouds is preferred as it doesn’t require the use of chemicals. So, a bit different than cloud seeding
- aeroman 5y agoThe idea is pretty similar, in that the aim to to create cloud droplets large enough that precipitation forms in those clouds (hygroscopic cloud seeding). This is a little different from glaciogenic cloud seeding, where you aim to generate ice in a supercooled cloud (which has historically has been more common). Glaciogenic seeding typically uses something like silver iodide (to nucleate ice crystals). For the clouds over the UAE (which are not supercooled), table salt would be more likely to be used. This idea is that it can create cloud droplets that are large enough to begin the collision-coalesence process.
- dole 5y agoCurious how saline that rain would end up being, detrimental to plant life, considerable corrosion for metals/cars/etc.
- Mvhsz 5y agoJust guessing but I can't imagine they use as much salt as northern cities put on the road when it snows (dump trucks worth of salt). There's information for that at my local extension office [1]. The TL;DR is that plants don't love it, but they tolerate it. Grasses are especially tolerant. [1] https://plant-pest-advisory.rutgers.edu/impact-of-road-salt-on-adjacent-vegetation/ https://plant-pest-advisory.rutgers.edu/impact-of-road-salt-...
- purple_ferret 5y agoI'm surprised they get even 4 inches of rain a year, but it seems like it's almost all in the winter. Assuming they can get another 4 inches during the summer, they can get as much rain as Phoenix. I wonder if this can dramatically change the landscape.
- cfn 5y agoThey probably get them in a few weather events every year. I lived in a place in the South of Portugal that, on paper, gets has much rain as, say, Berlin. The catch is that it would fall over 3 or 4 very strong downpours causing flooding and devastation.
- ratsforhorses 5y agoI'd have thought with the amount of coffee grounds, leftover food and human manure from so many people, one could have turned their surrounding areas into a self sustaining green belt (with a little help from atmospheric water generation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_water_generator#:~:text=An%20atmospheric%20water%20generator%20(AWG,to%20render%20the%20water%20potable https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_water_generator#....
- mensetmanusman 5y agoEvaporative cooling for the win. I wish (any) parks had this built in (ignoring splash/water parks), because it would be easier justifying brining kids out in this type of heat (especially for parks with no shade due to poor design). It would also bring more community together to have outdoor areas that are dramatically cooler than the surroundings.
- voisin 5y agoI have no idea why shade isn’t a primary design concern for every park. It is almost always left to “there’s a tiny tree over there that will produce shade in 25 years”. It is shocking.
- city41 5y agoHeck, my neighborhood is 21 years old and the trees are still too small to provide any meaningful shade.
- Avalaxy 5y agoJust got to wait 4 more years then.
- MisterTea 5y agoI think the concern is the maintenance. Trees lose leaves in autumn increasing labor costs. They may also fall or have large branches break off in storms causing damage. I think its lazy and anti-environmental but less expenses ftw.
- voisin 5y agoThis is as good an explanation as I’ve ever heard. Seems silly though given the maintenance that already takes place with respect to lawn mowing. If trees are the concern then why not large fabric sails? The park equipment is super pricey to begin with so I can’t imagine we are taking huge extras.
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- Shadonototro 5y agothat means other region won't have rain this should be illegal
- Thev00d00 5y agoPerhaps the scope of "Convention on the Law of the Non-Navigational Uses of International Watercourses" should be expanded, or similar legislation
- TroisM 5y agoA bit like the US takes water from large rivers that used to go to Mexico? But are now dry river beds before getting to the border (Colorado river?)
- aliswe 5y agono region over there has any rain to speak of (but lots of humidity) so ...
- hasmanean 5y agoThis is just cloud seeding. They’ve been doing it for decades, though not with drones.
- sha256kira 5y agoAnd didn't cloud seeding used to be chemical-based where this is electrical? Does that make this less sketchy?
- NationalPark 5y agoThe technique is different too. This uses electricity somehow instead of the chemical methods that are typically what people call "cloud seeding".
- matt_f 5y agoQuestion! Is there any reason this technique could not be applied to solve the Oregon wildfires?
- anomaloustho 5y agoLast I read, the effectiveness of cloud seeding is still up for debate. Wikipedia has a section on effectiveness, “A study conducted by the National Academy of Sciences failed to find statistically significant support for the effectiveness of cloud seeding.”[1] [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding
- kamranjon 5y agoLack of clouds during wildfire conditions would be my guess
- y-c-o-m-b 5y agoWe've actually had a dozen mornings now in the Portland area with significant cloud cover. There's also been NW wind flow so if this technique only needed clouds and wind to push it in the direction of the fires, I don't see a reason why it couldn't work. Then again I'm no meteorologist.
- nose 5y agoCould this be used in California as an additional fire extinguishing method?
- fjabre 5y agoHome to some of the best and brightest engineers in the world and California is still figuring how many firemen, goats and firetrucks to send. Where are Google, Facebook, Apple, SpaceX, California state gov? And Musk is still focused on LA traffic jams. I guess the worst fires in California state history are not enough to sway the titans of industry into action. Even though these fires are happening in their back yard.
- mistrial9 5y agothere are a dozen efforts and a lot of money (captured mainly), and yes, a lot of high-tech in play right now. one link: https://wifire.ucsd.edu/ https://wifire.ucsd.edu/
- You-Are-Right 5y agoBut look how cool they can travel to space now!
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- kansface 5y agoWildfires in CA are a political issue that will only be solved via a political solution, but at present, there is absolutely no appetite to do so among the residents or politicians. Its like asking why Elon hasn’t fixed healthcare or higher ed in the US.
- google234123 5y agoNeither side (the government and these companies) want to get involved with the other
- s1artibartfast 5y agoUnfortunately more fires are the only solution, due to the amount of fuel built up in California forests from a century of mismanagement. 2020 was the highest burn area on record with 4+ million acres burnt, and we would need 10 years burning at this level to bring the state down to 1920 fuel levels. The sad part is that due to the amount of built up fuel, these fires will be very intense leaving moonscapes opposed to healthy forests. More prescribed burns in the spring and wet years may help, but I don't think the political willpower is there, given the liability if things get out of hand.
- raverbashing 5y agoI'm curious how places out there by the sea like Dubai are essentially a desert. Evaporation should be massive at those areas no?
- cryptonector 5y agoVegetation evaporates more water, faster, than the Sun shining on open water body surfaces. I've seen a picture from directly overhead of the Amazon river where you can see clouds forming directly over treetops on either side of the river, but not the tiniest wisp of cloud over the river itself.
- dcolkitt 5y agoThis is actually the reason why Miami is one of the few major American cities that's never broken 100 F in recorded history. When temperatures rise significantly above 90, then the chance of rain goes to 100%, which cools things back down. It's pretty much why you get clockwork torrential downpours every afternoon in Florida summers.
- cle 5y agoTampa has that distinction for the same reason too. Afternoon thunderstorms can cause the temperature to drop sometimes by 20 F!
- rootsudo 5y agoYep, loved Clearwater Summer rains and thunder. :)
- iso1631 5y agoSingapore, on the equator on the end of a peninsular and surrounded by the sea, has a record high of just 37C (98.6F), lower than the record highs of Finland, Sweden, the UK, Japan, Korea, Russia etc. The Maldives, also known for being reliably warm and just 4 degrees north of the equator, has a high even lower, 34.9C, only a handful of countries have a high of lower than that (Iceland and Greenland being two) Of course they also have the highest record low temperatres (19C and 17.2C each)
- kop316 5y agoWould you minding explaining the phenomenon in a bit more detail, if you could? I thought that as air temperature rises, the air is able to absorb more heat, not less. And I thought rain was essentially the fact that there is too much moisture in the air, so it condenses. So this is counterintuitive to me (but I am likely missing something).
- rini17 5y agoThe warmer air over land rises up, cooling in the process. But then water in it condenses and gives up heat, that supports the upward flow. So it's kind of runaway process. Eventually when there's too much water condensed, then it overcomes the upward flow and rains down. How it happens, and whether it happens at all, whether the rain won't evaporate in midair etc. depends on variety of conditions.
- solarkraft 5y ago> electrical charges into clouds in order for them to clump together and form precipitation So like … real rain?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- melicoy 5y agoI have read that they are using drone technology to create precipitation. Can the same method be applied in extinguishing forest fires?
- satokema_work 5y agoso now we're saying weather control/manipulation is real then? i guess the conspiracy nuts were right again.
- ceejayoz 5y agoWe've been openly trying it since at least the 1960s. The conspiracy nuts claim it's intentionally being used to make targeted natural disasters (and typically throw in chemtrail stuff), which is a very different claim than "we can probably increase rainfall a little bit'.
- nanna 5y agoI have a better suggestion. Quit pumping out oil. Deal with the root causes of climate change.
- parthdesai 5y agoUAE actually doesn't rely much on oil at all.
- Nux 5y agoSubject reminds me of this short sci-fi animation I saw somewhat recently, worth the 10 minutes imho. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWCGK4nneeU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWCGK4nneeU
- merpnderp 5y agoHah, I knew exactly what you referring to before I clicked and confirmed. Great piece of art. Thanks for bringing it up.
- shagie 5y agoDUST ( https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7sDT8jZ76VLV1u__krUutA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7sDT8jZ76VLV1u__krUutA ) is a great channel to subscribe to. It frequently has reasonably high production quality science fiction shorts.
- fritzo 5y agoScientific publication: https://journals.ametsoc.org/view/journals/atot/38/1/jtech-d-20-0092.1.xml https://journals.ametsoc.org/view/journals/atot/38/1/jtech-d...
- soheil 5y ago> The monsoon-like downpour drenches a busy highway, Why is the word monsoon used for countries in the east and heavy rainfall or other words in the west? Is there a scientific difference?
- ultrarunner 5y agoMy understanding is that monsoonal patterns are a result of seasonal heat causing a rising air column, which is then replaced by wetter air from over (relatively) nearby oceans. Wikipedia says that's no longer the preferred understanding, but then goes on to describe exactly what I said, so consult your local meteorologist. At any rate, "Monsoon" is a commonly used word in Phoenix understood to mean seasonal rain storms. This is in contrast to just "rain" which is not necessarily monsoonal in nature. We do get rain in the winter, occasionally, but it is not the monsoon.
- kaminar 5y agoYou are correct sir. Miami has only ever touched 100 degrees F 3x in history. Super saturation exists at times, when humidity can reach well over 100%, and still not rain.