6 ms·

Is ivermectin still evil and misinformation too? Is upcoming september discrimination as proposed by Boris on "freedom Day" good? It's getting really tiresome

Is ivermectin still evil and misinformation too? Is upcoming september discrimination as proposed by Boris on "freedom Day" good? It's getting really tiresome to see propaganda day in and day out. Most people aren't afraid. Politicians, by their actions, aren't afraid. This is all about keeping the fear cycle going and blaming people again for the failings of corrupt governments.

pjc50 5y ago
Ivermectin remains unproven; it's not an antiviral, it's a nerve poison for invertebrates.
- nitrogen 5y ago
  Are there opportunistic invertebrates that might move into an infected person's lungs or sinuses that could explain reports of it working, if there are such reports?
  - alexisread 5y ago
    I hear too much talk from politicians on a daily basis, if it works, I'm in ;)
ceejayoz 5y ago
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-supporting-ivermectin-as-covid-treatment-withdrawn-over-ethical-concerns https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-s... > The efficacy of a drug being promoted by rightwing figures worldwide for treating Covid-19 is in serious doubt after a major study suggesting the treatment is effective against the virus was withdrawn due to “ethical concerns”.
- incrudible 5y ago
  I have yet to see one large trial confirming or refuting the efficacy of Ivermectin. As long as that doesn't exist, the efficacy of Ivermectin is undecided. I'm highly skeptical myself, but the existince of one poorly executed study is completely irrelevant, as is the assocation with "right wingers".
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    The onus, right now, is on ivermectin proponents to demonstrate significant efficacy. The evidence introduced thus far has not been compelling, and until that changes, the onus remains on them. That its advocacy seems to be driven ideologically rather than scientifically is relevant, IMO.
    - panny 5y ago
      There are dozens of studies demonstrating the effectiveness of ivermectin. c19ivermectin.com
      - ceejayoz 5y ago
        Previously discussed at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26434247 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26434247, and they're still slogging the HCQ thing in the header.
        panny 5y ago
        >discussed War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Flagged is discussed.
    - isaacremuant 5y ago
      Actually, the advocacy comes from many sides of the political aisle but a very specific "anti right wing" sentiment seems to be hell bent on shutting it down as fast as possible and ignoring real world use. https://open.spotify.com/episode/7uVXKgE6eLJKMXkETwcw0D?si=IUDyKJlXTFKTzxlBGYhHGw&utm_source=copy-link&dl_branch=1 https://open.spotify.com/episode/7uVXKgE6eLJKMXkETwcw0D?si=I... That podcast addresses the claims against ivermectin and the double standards regarding the high bar for such a cheap and available treatment and the censorship surrounding it.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    You apparently do not understand how the evaluation of medicine works. You have to prove efficacy vs a placebo in a test with a control that only receives the placebo (double blind test). Trials do not refute anything, they can only prove that something works, never that it does not work.
- isaacremuant 5y ago
  The fact that it says "promoted by right-wing figures" shows how politicizes this whole thing is. https://open.spotify.com/episode/7uVXKgE6eLJKMXkETwcw0D?si=IUDyKJlXTFKTzxlBGYhHGw&utm_source=copy-link&dl_branch=1 https://open.spotify.com/episode/7uVXKgE6eLJKMXkETwcw0D?si=I... That podcast addresses the claims against ivermectin and the double standards regarding the high bar for such a cheap and available treatment and the censorship surrounding it.
jacquesm 5y ago
> It's getting really tiresome to see propaganda day in and day out. Indeed.
mjburgess 5y ago
It's perhaps worth taking the opportunity here just to note how remarkably stable western society has been in these times. This sort of mindset could be running and destabilising society. But, really, it isn't. It feels to me obvious why millions of people, looking at their TVs, far away from the-reality-on-the-ground would be afraid and paranoid. It's less obvious why everyone isnt. I think this says something hopeful about how governable and mature civilisation at-this-unprecendented-scale happens to be.

pjc50 5y ago

Ivermectin remains unproven; it's not an antiviral, it's a nerve poison for invertebrates.

nitrogen 5y ago
Are there opportunistic invertebrates that might move into an infected person's lungs or sinuses that could explain reports of it working, if there are such reports?
- alexisread 5y ago
  I hear too much talk from politicians on a daily basis, if it works, I'm in ;)

ceejayoz 5y ago

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-supporting-ivermectin-as-covid-treatment-withdrawn-over-ethical-concerns https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-s... > The efficacy of a drug being promoted by rightwing figures worldwide for treating Covid-19 is in serious doubt after a major study suggesting the treatment is effective against the virus was withdrawn due to “ethical concerns”.

incrudible 5y ago
I have yet to see one large trial confirming or refuting the efficacy of Ivermectin. As long as that doesn't exist, the efficacy of Ivermectin is undecided. I'm highly skeptical myself, but the existince of one poorly executed study is completely irrelevant, as is the assocation with "right wingers".
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  The onus, right now, is on ivermectin proponents to demonstrate significant efficacy. The evidence introduced thus far has not been compelling, and until that changes, the onus remains on them. That its advocacy seems to be driven ideologically rather than scientifically is relevant, IMO.
  - panny 5y ago
    There are dozens of studies demonstrating the effectiveness of ivermectin. c19ivermectin.com
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      Previously discussed at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26434247 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26434247, and they're still slogging the HCQ thing in the header.
      - panny 5y ago
        >discussed War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Flagged is discussed.
  - isaacremuant 5y ago
    Actually, the advocacy comes from many sides of the political aisle but a very specific "anti right wing" sentiment seems to be hell bent on shutting it down as fast as possible and ignoring real world use. https://open.spotify.com/episode/7uVXKgE6eLJKMXkETwcw0D?si=IUDyKJlXTFKTzxlBGYhHGw&utm_source=copy-link&dl_branch=1 https://open.spotify.com/episode/7uVXKgE6eLJKMXkETwcw0D?si=I... That podcast addresses the claims against ivermectin and the double standards regarding the high bar for such a cheap and available treatment and the censorship surrounding it.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  You apparently do not understand how the evaluation of medicine works. You have to prove efficacy vs a placebo in a test with a control that only receives the placebo (double blind test). Trials do not refute anything, they can only prove that something works, never that it does not work.
isaacremuant 5y ago
The fact that it says "promoted by right-wing figures" shows how politicizes this whole thing is. https://open.spotify.com/episode/7uVXKgE6eLJKMXkETwcw0D?si=IUDyKJlXTFKTzxlBGYhHGw&utm_source=copy-link&dl_branch=1 https://open.spotify.com/episode/7uVXKgE6eLJKMXkETwcw0D?si=I... That podcast addresses the claims against ivermectin and the double standards regarding the high bar for such a cheap and available treatment and the censorship surrounding it.

jacquesm 5y ago

> It's getting really tiresome to see propaganda day in and day out. Indeed.

mjburgess 5y ago

It's perhaps worth taking the opportunity here just to note how remarkably stable western society has been in these times. This sort of mindset could be running and destabilising society. But, really, it isn't. It feels to me obvious why millions of people, looking at their TVs, far away from the-reality-on-the-ground would be afraid and paranoid. It's less obvious why everyone isnt. I think this says something hopeful about how governable and mature civilisation at-this-unprecendented-scale happens to be.