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Spanish police seize large drone used to carry drugs from Morocco
- gibba999 5y agoThis is within the price range of a flying car (or to be clear, a flying coffin; it's pretty tight in there, and I doubt the safety). I'd like a flying car!
- ceejayoz 5y agoI’m a little skeptical of the claimed vertical take off capacity given the photos.
- Arnt 5y agoThis drone looks similar and its manufacturer also claims VTOL and many hours' flight time: https://carbonix.com.au/ https://carbonix.com.au/
- snovv_crash 5y agoI think it's the total capacity that it carried over several flights. The journalist mixed the numbers up.
- gibba999 5y agoI don't need VToL. I need <30mph short runway take-off and landing, which is a lot easier.
- ben_w 5y agoEvery time someone mentions flying cars, I wonder what they have in mind that a helicopter isn’t the answer to. I remember helicopters for sale in Farnborough Air Show, probably 30 years ago now, the cheapest there cost about £100k. I assume inflation has quadrupled that, but I don’t follow that market and the stuff on eBay I am unqualified to gauge the quality of.
- neverminder 5y agoHelicopters never really "took off" so to speak, because apparently for every 1 hour of flight they need 4 hours of maintenance, amongst other issues.
- _wolfie_ 5y agoI've never understood why flying cars should have lower needs for maintainence.
- dividedbyzero 5y agoMy understanding is that a "flying car" is pretty much just a lower-maintenance, easier-to-use, safer and less noisy helicopter. Any helicopter that doesn't have these properties wouldn't work as a flying car, but once (if) someone figures out how to do it, I guess it'll become a feature of other helicopter designs as well.
- Retric 5y agoMass production allows for more optimization than small production runs. Modern cars can go a long time with minimal maintenance, but it took a lot of R&D to reach that point. The most successful small aircraft the Cessna 172 Skyhawk has averaged than 1,000 produced per year and runs ~400,000$ new. They could easily drop that to under 100k with modest levels of automation, but can’t justify automation with current levels of demand. Similarly only minimal levels of R&D is worth is at when the market is tiny. It’s even worse in the Helicopter market. Presumably someone designing a flying car is going to take the R&D and automation risks assuming they will pay for themselves.
- lovemenot 5y agoIt's just marijuana and hashish in the payload. From Morocco, that's Bush and Rocky. Too bad. Better luck next time.
- pixxel 5y agoCan carry up to 150 kilos. Article doesn’t mention street value. I’ve no idea. If it’s cocaine, is that millions of dollars? This is Morocco though, so more likely hashish, which would be worth considerably less. How much though? Just trying to visualise cost of drone vs reward ratio.
- BaRRaKID 5y agoStreet value would be around 10€ per gram, so 1.500.000€
- FDSGSG 5y agoSold in units of 1 gram, bigger amounts will be considerably cheaper. By the kilo it isn't worth much more than 2-3 euros per gram.
- d1sxeyes 5y agoArticle does mention however that "it was being used for packages of narcotics, particularly cocaine". https://www.statista.com/chart/18527/cocaine-retail-steet-prices-in-selected-countries/ https://www.statista.com/chart/18527/cocaine-retail-steet-pr... shows 67 USD per gram, which means that if you've got 150kg of cocaine on board, the street value is just over ten million USD. I don't know how much of that would be profit, but seems quite likely there's an excellent cost vs reward ratio - potentially even so high that these drones could be used almost disposably if they are intercepted less frequently than boats.
- mardifoufs 5y agoI think cartels started shipping cocaine to Morocco, and from there they smuggle it to Europe. It's much easier than to send it directly to the EU considering how porous the Gibraltar straight/maritime routes across the Mediterranean are and that there are tons of very well established routes and networks already used to smuggling tens of tons of hashish/weed.
- blutack 5y agoAs per votingprawn, it's 25kg at the absolute most (from the manufacturers website). If you're flying any distance, a lot less than that.
- barcoder 5y agoThis is a really good example of technology being used by criminals to circumvent law enforcement while putting the public at risk. While I personally think drug laws need to be updated, the more interesting discussion here is about creating technologies that can cause serious harm to the public and making them cheap and easy enough to be used by anyone with a small amount of financial backing and a strong insentive.
- 27e733836x 5y agoIs that really the interesting discussion here? It seems like the same ground journalists tread all the time when they want to waste a bunch of time opining on nothing. What's the alternative? Waste money on purpose? Make shittier user interfaces?
- sharken 5y agoThe interesting discussion to me is why governments are not doing more to decriminalize or legalize drugs. That seems to be the only way out of this mess.
- peteretep 5y agoAm I completely off-base in thinking almost everything about a submersible drone is a better idea? No radar signature, much bigger haulage, can idle in location for much longer when needed, and presumably supports somewhat surreptitious unloading at sea if needed?
- Jabbles 5y agoThere is not a large industry of hobby submarine drones you can leverage - much more technical skill and effort would be needed.
- Y-Bopinator 5y agoWhy make it unmanned when you have an army of soldiers. Put a man in there to steer or scuttle the ship if needed.
- RealityVoid 5y agoRadio communication is made more difficult by being surrounded by water.
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y agoNot when trailing an antenna snorkel-like, lifted up by a tiny buoy.
- Arnt 5y agoThe sea is flat and you can see a long way. Radar can see a long way. These people could choose a landing spot in a hilly area with few people and many roads, where few people could see the drone land and they could unload, drive off and mingle with traffic after only a few minutes' driving. Maybe the drone could even finish charging unattended and take off to fly back to Morocco.
- snovv_crash 5y agoThey can do a battery swap while unloading and send it back immediately
- lovemenot 5y ago>> In total, 30 kilograms of marijuana and 55 of hashish were found during the operations in Spain and France. Yeah. A bit ambiguous. I guess the mention of cocaine was to improve the profile of the bust.
- anfractuosity 5y ago"The drug gang was flying the drone using an electronic system that relayed the exact takeoff and landing points, and used waypoints – i.e. places during the flight where it had to change course. It could also be flown using remote control." - Does that mean it was likely using GPS to follow a particular route?
- Arnt 5y agoJust guessing: A waypoint in a fairly lonely part of the Spanish coast, then a few points so the drone won't fly over cities on its way inland, finally a lonely spot to land.
- blutack 5y agoYes, it'll have a Pixhawk or similar in it running ArduPilot (or maybe PX4). Both open source (and ArduPilot is maintained by Tridge of Samba fame).
- anfractuosity 5y agoI just found one of the products mugin sells is this - https://www.muginuav.com/product/cuav-new-x7-pro-flight-controller-open-source-autopilot/ https://www.muginuav.com/product/cuav-new-x7-pro-flight-cont... which mentions it can run ArduPilot firmware.
- blutack 5y agoYep, Mugin are reselling the majority of the stuff in their electronics category - they mostly make airframes AFAIK. A Pixhawk Cube or similar is around the £250 mark.
- consumer451 5y agoThat is a pretty advanced design. It's hybrid gas/electric and the manufacturing looks excellent as well. I was expecting something patched together along the lines of the semi-submersibles that we have previously been shown. On another note, I really don't see that thing carrying 150kg (330lbs) of useful payload. That would be an aerodynamic marvel for forward flight, and there is just no way those 4 electric motors can support vertical flight with a 150kg payload. I am just an r/c hobbyist and would love to know if I am off on the payload somehow.
- blutack 5y agoIt's a Mugin - https://www.muginuav.com/product/mugin-6000mm-extra-large-huge-vtol-uav-platform/ https://www.muginuav.com/product/mugin-6000mm-extra-large-hu... Payload is "25kg" and that's probably optimistic.
- ape4 5y agoThe obvious advantage for the smugglers is that there is no person to get busted.
- munk-a 5y agoThe obvious disadvantage is that the drone is programmed with a source and destination point which are easily extracted from the machine. Cleaver LEOs could probably get to the receiving point within the window when the drone is expected and, if not, the points are probably pretty close to their base of operations. When interrogating a pilot the pilot can clearly signal distress to compatriots and is likely going to take longer to actually disclose their intended destination.
- sudosysgen 5y agoYou could certainly program it to delete the source and destination once speed goes low enough far from the destination.
- votingprawn 5y agoIts a mugin if anyone is interested (take the manufacturer specs with a handfull of salt) https://www.muginuav.com/product/mugin-5-pro-5000mm-super-large-vtol-uav-platform/ https://www.muginuav.com/product/mugin-5-pro-5000mm-super-la...
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- SMAAART 5y agoonly 12k? I want one!
- coolspot 5y agoThat’s just empty airframe without any electronics or engine.
- TOMDM 5y agoYeah I was surprised by that figure too Seems it's only the airframe though and maybe the fuel tank. VTOL motors, alternator, engine, props, control system etc. are all extra.
- api_or_ipa 5y ago$12k for the airframe. Each engine (4x) is another $8k. I wouldn't be surprised if the out-the-door cost of the airframe, engines, avionics and controls surpasses $50k.
- munk-a 5y agoActually, from their website it looks like there is a bundle package[1] of the necessary guts that brings the full price to about 20k. 1. https://www.muginuav.com/product/power-package-for-mugin-4450-vtol/ https://www.muginuav.com/product/power-package-for-mugin-445...
- atourgates 5y ago
- blantonl 5y agoThe next interesting step for drug dealers will be last mile of delivery of product to customers. Imagine coupling a Web app with a swarm of drones that can drop product on your back porch in a matter of minutes. You can bet it's coming for illegal products.
- tomcooks 5y agoParalelni Polis released last year an interesting video of a drone based last mile transport system for their hydroponic lettuce, paid in cryptos https://youtu.be/_vEJwD5lDTk https://youtu.be/_vEJwD5lDTk
- dghlsakjg 5y agoThe grey market (unlicensed) weed guys in Vancouver just use cars and ring the doorbell when they arrive. In the summer, some of them have bikes...
- imtringued 5y agoThe police then gets a nice profitable side business involving the confiscation of $20k drones.
- jazzyjackson 5y agoI suppose it would have to take off for Pizza delivery before they become inconspicuous enough to make illegal deliveries. Like my sibling comments say, a delivery driver or bike courier is a lot stealthier than a drone for now.
- cronix 5y agoFirst they need to get Amazon delivering things via drone to acclimate everyone to the idea of drones buzzing around everywhere dropping things off. Post that, no one would blink an eye.
- eurasiantiger 5y agoYou really think all those delivery drivers driving brand new 2021 cars are only delivering food?
- TacticalCoder 5y agoI spend about 1/3rd of the year each year in Spain and an "interesting" development related to drug trades is happening here: basically lots of people realized cannabis plants were flowering as well, if not better, in Spain than in Morocco. The EU / Spanish polices also got apparently much better at intercepting cannabis dealers trying to pass from Morocco to Spain (hence maybe these new drones attempts). So now there are both individuals and gangs (including gagns from Morocco and from eastern europe) growing a huge lot of weed in Spain. As in: it's becoming very big business. Individuals have the right, legally, to grow up to two cannabis plants (I think two plants for one adult in the household is the rule and you can legally by flowering and auto-flowering cannabis seeds in shops). But quite some individuals are, illegally, growing much more than two plants as a way to meet months' ends. Technically this delivery drone is impressive but dealers from Morocco have much bigger problems than trying to stuff ganja into drones without getting intercepted: growing cannabis plant and making hashish and ganja directly in Spain, at cheaper prices.
- bayesian_horse 5y agoThe article says they are smuggling cocain. I doubt cannabis would be profitable enough. It's not just about the cost of the drone, it must be a serious undertaking for a gang to get a hand on one of those without anyone noticing. The thing is basically an ultra-light aircraft, and probably extremely illegal to operate anywhere in Europe or any sane jurisdiction...
- zenexer 5y agoInitially it says that the intended purpose was cocaine, but then it goes on to say that online marijuana and hashish were found.
- bayesian_horse 5y agoIt also doesn't say whether or not they actually had the drone in the air at all. Maybe those guys just hatched a crazy-ass idea, financed it with their previous marijuana "business" but haven't so far gotten around to actually buying cocaine in Morocco, much less smuggling it with a drone...
- bayesian_horse 5y agoThat drone is basically an ultra-light aircraft, able to carry the weight of one or two (slim) adult humans. Vertical takeoff and landing may be overkill for that use case. They could probably get away with Ardupilot and just crash the drone... Fortunately, most people who are able to build such a drone (I think many drone-hobbyists could) are smart enough not to go into drug smuggling.
- bayesian_horse 5y agoWell, ok, some people are casting doubts on the 150kg payload...
- yboris 5y agoPortugal has all drugs decriminalized. I guess smuggling drugs into Portugal is still illegal (and the distance is farther). Can't wait till we end the stupid "war on drugs".
- hsousa 5y agoThat's the only advantage of this small and little country. In Portugal it is illegal to own a cannabis plant.
- antb1235 5y agoWhen the price drops enough maybe refugees by drone?
- outworlder 5y ago> The drone can reach altitudes of 2,000 meters (around 7,000 feet), but in general would fly much lower in order to save fuel and avoid detection. Fly lower to save fuel? How does that make sense?
- tincholio 5y agoThe distance that needs covering to fly from northern Morocco to Spain is just a few km... probably would be a waste of energy to get it to 2km altitude
- outworlder 5y agoNow that makes sense.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago> Fly lower to save fuel? How does that make sense? Propellers like lower speeds and altitudes; fans like higher speeds and altitudes [1]. This is because propellers hit the air at the true air speed. Compressors in a turbofan modify the incident pressure and air speed, letting the engine purr away without concern for creating shock waves. This is a propeller craft. [1] https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/airplane_handbook/media/16_afh_ch14.pdf https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/a...
- outworlder 5y agoFrom your link: > Turboprop engines are most efficient at speeds between 250 and 400 mph and altitudes between 18,000 and 30,000 feet Ignoring the detail that your source is talking about turboprop (so, turbine engine with a big fan attached) and not a small piston engine, that's still not low altitude. That's class A airspace! Even in a piston aircraft, you have to adjust your mixture as you climb, right? You have to add _less_ fuel per unit of air. And there's still all the drag from the aircraft itself, it's not just about propellers. Sure, I doubt this drone would have a turbocharger, so performance (or rather, horsepower) is expected to drop above 10000ft. But not efficiency.
- Luc 5y agoThe picture is rather deceptive, making the drone look huge compared to the men standing behind it. When you play the video you'll see it's not that big.
- grouphugs 5y agoi dream about being able to take back everything police steal
- eloff 5y agoI predicted drug smuggling via drones would be a thing when I learned about consumer drones 7 years ago now. Sometimes it sucks to be right.
- azalemeth 5y agoI wonder what the radar cross section on this thing is? It's going to be at least comparable to that of a small light aircraft – which are easily detected by primary radar. I think flying this across the med with no flight plan, no transponder, and no legitimate paperwork would be a very good opportunity to get it filmed extensively in-air for free by a friendly European airforce. Quite possibly including an explosive and quick landing, too!
- radicaldreamer 5y agoWonder when we'll start seeing private smuggling drones made with radar reducing geometries.
- echelon 5y agoNarco submarines are already getting quite sophisticated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narco-submarine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narco-submarine No doubt this will happen to drones too.
- hnzix 5y agoThe Yakuza have been using drones for short distance drug couriering for a number of years now.
- justin66 5y agoPractically speaking, for the uses they're going to put this drone to, silencing its two-stroke engine is infinitely more important than doing something about its radar signature.
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y agoWhy? Over land? Just another lawnmover buzzing. At sea? Skim the waves.
- justin66 5y ago
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- MomoXenosaga 5y agoThe police could intercept 90% of the drugs and the price of the remaining 10% would go so high that the smugglers would keep making billions. The police has a thankless never ending job until society's attitude changes.
- robertwt7 5y agoCan you imagine when one day cartel got their hands on robots?
- 404mm 5y agoI’m surprised that this doesn’t happen more often. With drone technologies advancing so fast, it was truly inevitable. The next step is just to use the right coat to become invisible to radars and you’re GTG. Unless that’s already happening and they are just getting away with that and we simply don’t know.
- virtue3 5y agoI'm 99% that sort of paint is very very "government secrets" by the US and doesn't get out much. Now could someone make a drone shaped like an f-117 and make it invisible to civilian radar? probably. That sort of engineering is easy with todays technology.
- stretchwithme 5y agoSeems like a sub would be more surreptitious.
- stretchwithme 5y agoOh, they do have those. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narco-submarine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narco-submarine
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y agoInteresting! :-) But article makes no sense. They write about the drone used for smuggling cocaine because it is the most lucrative thing, but they found only a few dozen kg of marijuana and hashish each where it was stored?