6 ms·

I don’t understand why the US seems so incapable of simple action that displaces a very minor special interest. In Australia we got rid of the one and two cent

by cletus 5y ago

I don’t understand why the US seems so incapable of simple action that displaces a very minor special interest. In Australia we got rid of the one and two cent coins 30 years ago because the buying power of the ten cent piece then was less than one cent piece originally when introduced in the 1960s. There was no big debate or opposition and no lobbying by coin producers or those who produced the metals. It just happened and basically everyone was happy not to deal with more pointless small change. And people still largely paid with cash too so electronic payment wasn’t as significant as it is today. It shouldn’t be this hard.

newsclues 5y ago
Maybe we should have stable currency that isn’t worth 10% of its former value after 60 years.
- HideousKojima 5y ago
  Sadly even before the gold standard was abolished the government found plenty of ways to cause inflation, the problem is the Federal Reserve
wil421 5y ago
No one is interested because we don’t use that much cash to make it an issue. Even most vending machines have machines for cards or NFC payments on cellphone. The only people still using checks or pennies are more than likely elderly. They vote in droves and will probably strike something like that down.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  The US and Germany are two western countries that have relatively high use of cash, and relative distrust of electronic payments - it's only been in the last decade or so that the US has slowly started moving away from signatures for payment and I'm still regularly asked to do it. That's unheard of in almost all comparable countries. You can also see people paying with literal $100 bills at the supermarket.
  - dr-detroit 5y ago
    You should listen to those "take control of your finance" coaches on the scam radio stations they advocate for the thing where you go to the bank and withdraw 1 days worth of money in cash and keep it in little envelopes.
  - sneak 5y ago
    Use of $100s is in sharp decline for most retail transactions in most of the US, as is cash in general. Most USians under 30 don't carry any cash at all. As someone who always pays in cash, this is increasingly inconvenient. There are occasionally shops that won't take cash at all. Cash can still be found in poor communities, as well as the big cities in NY and CA, as well as Las Vegas. Everywhere else is rapidly going cashless.
    - Beached 5y ago
      I always carry some cash, even if I usually pay with card. many many stores have a minimum purchase to use a card, and most these days no longer accept checks. cash is my only option. I ran into only one store that had a minimum purchase to use card, and they didn't accept cash or checks at all. I just left the stuff on the counter and walked out.
    - dfxm12 5y ago
      Philadelphia has banned cashless stores: https://www.inquirer.com/business/cashless-ban-philadelphia-stores-sweetgreen-bluestone-lane-20191004.html https://www.inquirer.com/business/cashless-ban-philadelphia-... I've noticed some out of towners come in and get surprised at how many businesses are cash only, from humble produce stands to fine dining establishments. With that in mind, there is at least some inertia that people know to expect when they need cash (or at least when to tap MAC). Not everyone can get a bank account or credit card. So, it's important that stuff like grocery stores, clothing retail, etc. accept cash. This is orthogonal to whether or not we really need pennies though :)
      - chrisseaton 5y ago
        High-end restaurants being cash only? That’s bizarre. I’d never go out to dinner carrying like 200 dollars.
- salamandersauce 5y ago
  The U.S mint made 7.5 billion pennies last year. Each of those pennies cost more than a penny to produce. The people asking for pennies to keep being produced is the Zinc lobby. Over 20% of transactions are still cash and using pennies just adds extra inefficiencies to that process while wasting money just making the things. I don't recall vending machines ever taking pennies in my lifetime to begin with either. They've been that useless and annoying to deal with for that long.
  - pomian 5y ago
    I remember a town, not too long ago (5 years?) Hilo I believe, that had parking meters that stated: "Nickel or penny for convenience" For 10 minutes of parking.
    - MR4D 5y ago
      But at least you don’t get your info stolen when you park [0]. It’s a nice side-effect of using physical money. Also nice that it’s cheap. [0] - https://krebsonsecurity.com/2021/04/parkmobile-breach-exposes-license-plate-data-mobile-numbers-of-21m-users/ https://krebsonsecurity.com/2021/04/parkmobile-breach-expose...
  - toast0 5y ago
    > I don't recall vending machines ever taking pennies in my lifetime to begin with either. They've been that useless and annoying to deal with for that long. Bus fare boxes often will, although they don't show it on the sticker. I got rid of a ton of pennies when I was riding a bus regularly.
    - coldpie 5y ago
      Hahaha! YOU'RE the guy taking five minutes to pay! Cling cling cling cling cling whrrrrrr cling cling cling cling whrrrrrrr cling cling cling..... :)
      - toast0 5y ago
- bityard 5y ago
  > The only people still using checks or pennies are more than likely elderly. And of course almost every single brick-and-mortar business...
endgame 5y ago
I'm still salty that it made my Dick Smith beer-powered radio kit harder to assemble (which used copper and iron for the electrodes).
MereInterest 5y ago
Exactly. The half-cent coin was discontinued in 1857, when it was worth the equivalent of 15 cents today. At this point, not just the penny, but also the nickel and dime should be discontinued (and there should be $1, $2 and $5 coins to replace the paper bills). Everything below the quarter is functionally worthless in normal quantities, and even quarters only serve as laundry tokens.
- spiderice 5y ago
  > and there should be $1, $2 and $5 coins to replace the paper bills What is the reasoning for wanting $1/2/5 coins instead of paper? Don't most people prefer paper?
  - Arrath 5y ago
    IME, one and two Euro/Pound coins are incredibly useful and I much prefer them over paper. It makes it worthwhile to carry change around when I can make small purchases with them, and as a bonus I don't have to dig into my wallet for small bills. I'm not sold on the idea of a $5 coin yet, though. But I just argued a pretty good case for them, didn't I.
    - hakfoo 5y ago
      The 500-yen coin seems to work fine in Japan.
bityard 5y ago
The US military stopped using pennies on most foreign military bases decades ago. So there is at least precedent here. If there was actually a push to abolish pennies, it would become a partisan/political issue immediately and all rational discourse would evaporate. If you really want to see the penny go away, do what I do: literally throw them away. I did the math and found that the time, space, and attention needed to deal with them was costing me more than 1 cent per coin. I estimate that I have thrown away about $10 in pennies over the last few years and don't miss a single one.
- lapetitejort 5y ago
  > The US military stopped using pennies on most foreign military bases decades ago. The stores (PX, or whatever your branch calls it) I used in Iraq used cardboard discs for all coins, including quarters. I figured it was to reduce having to ship all that metal out just so Marines could buy dip. But they're already shipping humvees and such, why not some rolls of quarters? I kept forgetting to bring them whenever I bought something and amassed a big bag of pogs. Eventually I threw them away. That's probably the real reason. All transactions suddenly round up to the dollar!
  - babaganoosh89 5y ago
    It's so if the money ever gets captured by the enemy it isn't usable.
- tyingq 5y ago
  > The US military stopped using pennies on most foreign military bases decades ago. They would also dump unwanted currency on the military, like $2 bills, Susan B Anthony dollars, etc.
  - kube-system 5y ago
    I’ll trade them. Those are my favorite for messing with gen-z cashiers.
    - 5y ago
joezydeco 5y ago
Lobbying by cotton and linen/secure paper mills (and their congressmen, like Ted Kennedy) are the reason why the USA has had 3 different dollar coins in the modern era but can't eliminate the paper dollar bill. REF: https://books.google.com/books?id=TXD0DwAAQBAJ&lpg=PA4&ots=dLMPz4_weX&dq=ted%20kennedy%20save%20the%20greenback&pg=PA4#v=onepage&q=ted%20kennedy%20save%20the%20greenback&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=TXD0DwAAQBAJ&lpg=PA4&ots=d...
dillondoyle 5y ago
West Wing has a scene or two about the penny. They say it's because it has Lincoln and IL was in that universe important politically. Is that really the reason? What are the other special interests?
jcranmer 5y ago
The nickel costs even more than the penny does, relative to its value. Eliminating the penny--and shifting the usage to the nickel even harder--may will not save any money whatsoever.

by cletus 5y ago

newsclues 5y ago

Maybe we should have stable currency that isn’t worth 10% of its former value after 60 years.

HideousKojima 5y ago
Sadly even before the gold standard was abolished the government found plenty of ways to cause inflation, the problem is the Federal Reserve

wil421 5y ago

No one is interested because we don’t use that much cash to make it an issue. Even most vending machines have machines for cards or NFC payments on cellphone. The only people still using checks or pennies are more than likely elderly. They vote in droves and will probably strike something like that down.

chrisseaton 5y ago
The US and Germany are two western countries that have relatively high use of cash, and relative distrust of electronic payments - it's only been in the last decade or so that the US has slowly started moving away from signatures for payment and I'm still regularly asked to do it. That's unheard of in almost all comparable countries. You can also see people paying with literal $100 bills at the supermarket.
- dr-detroit 5y ago
  You should listen to those "take control of your finance" coaches on the scam radio stations they advocate for the thing where you go to the bank and withdraw 1 days worth of money in cash and keep it in little envelopes.
- sneak 5y ago
  Use of $100s is in sharp decline for most retail transactions in most of the US, as is cash in general. Most USians under 30 don't carry any cash at all. As someone who always pays in cash, this is increasingly inconvenient. There are occasionally shops that won't take cash at all. Cash can still be found in poor communities, as well as the big cities in NY and CA, as well as Las Vegas. Everywhere else is rapidly going cashless.
  - Beached 5y ago
    I always carry some cash, even if I usually pay with card. many many stores have a minimum purchase to use a card, and most these days no longer accept checks. cash is my only option. I ran into only one store that had a minimum purchase to use card, and they didn't accept cash or checks at all. I just left the stuff on the counter and walked out.
  - dfxm12 5y ago
    Philadelphia has banned cashless stores: https://www.inquirer.com/business/cashless-ban-philadelphia-stores-sweetgreen-bluestone-lane-20191004.html https://www.inquirer.com/business/cashless-ban-philadelphia-... I've noticed some out of towners come in and get surprised at how many businesses are cash only, from humble produce stands to fine dining establishments. With that in mind, there is at least some inertia that people know to expect when they need cash (or at least when to tap MAC). Not everyone can get a bank account or credit card. So, it's important that stuff like grocery stores, clothing retail, etc. accept cash. This is orthogonal to whether or not we really need pennies though :)
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      High-end restaurants being cash only? That’s bizarre. I’d never go out to dinner carrying like 200 dollars.
salamandersauce 5y ago
The U.S mint made 7.5 billion pennies last year. Each of those pennies cost more than a penny to produce. The people asking for pennies to keep being produced is the Zinc lobby. Over 20% of transactions are still cash and using pennies just adds extra inefficiencies to that process while wasting money just making the things. I don't recall vending machines ever taking pennies in my lifetime to begin with either. They've been that useless and annoying to deal with for that long.
- pomian 5y ago
  I remember a town, not too long ago (5 years?) Hilo I believe, that had parking meters that stated: "Nickel or penny for convenience" For 10 minutes of parking.
  - MR4D 5y ago
    But at least you don’t get your info stolen when you park [0]. It’s a nice side-effect of using physical money. Also nice that it’s cheap. [0] - https://krebsonsecurity.com/2021/04/parkmobile-breach-exposes-license-plate-data-mobile-numbers-of-21m-users/ https://krebsonsecurity.com/2021/04/parkmobile-breach-expose...
- toast0 5y ago
  > I don't recall vending machines ever taking pennies in my lifetime to begin with either. They've been that useless and annoying to deal with for that long. Bus fare boxes often will, although they don't show it on the sticker. I got rid of a ton of pennies when I was riding a bus regularly.
  - coldpie 5y ago
    Hahaha! YOU'RE the guy taking five minutes to pay! Cling cling cling cling cling whrrrrrr cling cling cling cling whrrrrrrr cling cling cling..... :)
    - toast0 5y ago
bityard 5y ago
> The only people still using checks or pennies are more than likely elderly. And of course almost every single brick-and-mortar business...

endgame 5y ago

I'm still salty that it made my Dick Smith beer-powered radio kit harder to assemble (which used copper and iron for the electrodes).

MereInterest 5y ago

Exactly. The half-cent coin was discontinued in 1857, when it was worth the equivalent of 15 cents today. At this point, not just the penny, but also the nickel and dime should be discontinued (and there should be $1, $2 and $5 coins to replace the paper bills). Everything below the quarter is functionally worthless in normal quantities, and even quarters only serve as laundry tokens.

spiderice 5y ago
> and there should be $1, $2 and $5 coins to replace the paper bills What is the reasoning for wanting $1/2/5 coins instead of paper? Don't most people prefer paper?
- Arrath 5y ago
  IME, one and two Euro/Pound coins are incredibly useful and I much prefer them over paper. It makes it worthwhile to carry change around when I can make small purchases with them, and as a bonus I don't have to dig into my wallet for small bills. I'm not sold on the idea of a $5 coin yet, though. But I just argued a pretty good case for them, didn't I.
  - hakfoo 5y ago
    The 500-yen coin seems to work fine in Japan.

bityard 5y ago

The US military stopped using pennies on most foreign military bases decades ago. So there is at least precedent here. If there was actually a push to abolish pennies, it would become a partisan/political issue immediately and all rational discourse would evaporate. If you really want to see the penny go away, do what I do: literally throw them away. I did the math and found that the time, space, and attention needed to deal with them was costing me more than 1 cent per coin. I estimate that I have thrown away about $10 in pennies over the last few years and don't miss a single one.

lapetitejort 5y ago
> The US military stopped using pennies on most foreign military bases decades ago. The stores (PX, or whatever your branch calls it) I used in Iraq used cardboard discs for all coins, including quarters. I figured it was to reduce having to ship all that metal out just so Marines could buy dip. But they're already shipping humvees and such, why not some rolls of quarters? I kept forgetting to bring them whenever I bought something and amassed a big bag of pogs. Eventually I threw them away. That's probably the real reason. All transactions suddenly round up to the dollar!
- babaganoosh89 5y ago
  It's so if the money ever gets captured by the enemy it isn't usable.
tyingq 5y ago
> The US military stopped using pennies on most foreign military bases decades ago. They would also dump unwanted currency on the military, like $2 bills, Susan B Anthony dollars, etc.
- kube-system 5y ago
  I’ll trade them. Those are my favorite for messing with gen-z cashiers.
  - 5y ago

joezydeco 5y ago

Lobbying by cotton and linen/secure paper mills (and their congressmen, like Ted Kennedy) are the reason why the USA has had 3 different dollar coins in the modern era but can't eliminate the paper dollar bill. REF: https://books.google.com/books?id=TXD0DwAAQBAJ&lpg=PA4&ots=dLMPz4_weX&dq=ted%20kennedy%20save%20the%20greenback&pg=PA4#v=onepage&q=ted%20kennedy%20save%20the%20greenback&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=TXD0DwAAQBAJ&lpg=PA4&ots=d...

dillondoyle 5y ago

West Wing has a scene or two about the penny. They say it's because it has Lincoln and IL was in that universe important politically. Is that really the reason? What are the other special interests?

jcranmer 5y ago

The nickel costs even more than the penny does, relative to its value. Eliminating the penny--and shifting the usage to the nickel even harder--may will not save any money whatsoever.