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I agree. The state of international migration is very worrying indeed. More people are dying on migration routes then by terrorism ~by a factor of two~ by 50%.

I agree. The state of international migration is very worrying indeed. More people are dying on migration routes then by terrorism ~by a factor of two~ by 50%. That is, hostile border policy by western nations are causing at least many more deaths then global terrorists. And this seems to be getting worse. The global pandemic saw countries double down on their harsh border policy, and there is little reason to believe there is relief in sight. The climate crisis is rendering more and more places inhospitable which will only deepen the ongoing migration crisis. European nations seem indifferent to this fact and continue their hostile border policy even though a global emergency is imminent. I indeed applaud any private efforts to offer any help they are able through this crisis, as much help is needed. But I do wish governments would take this humanitarian crisis more seriously. People are dying, there is an emergency, and we governments need to change their immigration policies to reflect that. We need to open our borders and stop this needless suffering of migrants. But while governments are hellbent on keeping theirs borders this closed, hopefully we will see more companies take action like GitLab here and offer help where they can. EDIT: I cited wrong numbers. Migrant deaths were at least 3,170 by mid December 2019 according to IOM (https://www.iom.int/news/global-migrant-deaths-decline-tragedies-continue-worldwide https://www.iom.int/news/global-migrant-deaths-decline-trage...) while terrorist deaths were around 2051 according to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_2019 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in...).

iammisc 5y ago
Why is the solution to concentrate people into a small number of countries and waste all the land that they would normally live in. Contrary to popular belief, migration is not caused by climate, it's caused by culture.
- cto_of_antifa 5y ago
  Inb4 white genocide
- runarberg 5y ago
  I don’t think people are concentrating into a small number of countries at all. I don’t know where you get your numbers but according to IOM international migration was 280.6 million in 2020, of which 33.8 million were refugees. Most refugees stayed in the geographic region (e.g. a tenth of the entire refugee destination was to Turkey followed by Jordan at 3 million). True normal migration lead by culture, love, opportunities, etc. is a lot bigger factor in migration then the climate crisis, but those are not the people suffering from hostile border policies (well not on the same scale as refugees) and don’t need the same help to bypass said policies. But it would be foolish to dismiss climate change and not expect the proportion of refugees to go up in the next years compared to other migrants.
zohch 5y ago
> More people are dying on migration routes then by terrorism ~by a factor of two~ by 50%. That is, hostile border policy by western nations are causing at least many more deaths then global terrorists. So the west is responsible for people being killed outside of the west? Why don't you blame the countries where these people are getting killed in? And how many of the people dying on migrant routes actually qualify as refugees according to the definition used by UNHCR? How many countries do migrants to the west pass through on average, and if it one or more, why not blame those? Why is it not the countries these people are fleeing from that hold the ultimate responsibility? And if they are indeed refugees, why are they passing through more than one country? I am an immigrant to the west, I would love to have my family here, but I can't because they would not qualify as refugees, why do people who break the laws get favorable treatment here? Why are they entitled to me having to pay for them while my family have to struggle with violence and poverty where they live?
- JoeAltmaier 5y ago
  That's a very confused argument. Refugees are not a problem? Your family struggle with violence and poverty, yet the West should have tighter border controls? Who's 'officially' a refugee and who isn't? The game is called 'blamethrowing' and it accomplishes nothing.
  - zohch 5y ago
    > Refugees are not a problem? Not a problem for what? > Your family struggle with violence and poverty, yet the West should have tighter border controls? What does my family's living conditions have to do with the west's border control policy? > Who's 'officially' a refugee and who isn't? I do not define this and you can find the definition used by various authorities readily available on the internet. The country where I reside uses UNHRC definitions and does not consider applications of people who are not already in the country. But as far as I know, struggling with violence and poverty is generally not enough to qualify for refugee status.
- runarberg 5y ago
  Seeking shelter is a protected human right. Crossing borders to seek asylum is not breaking the law. Being a refugee does not make you a criminal. Your question “why do people who break the laws get favorable treatment here?” is a loaded question based on false premise and should not be answered. However, even with a right to seek asylum many refugees need to smuggle them self into their prospected host country. This is an extremely dangerous activity, and is often done through actual criminal groups and costs a fortune. This business would not exist if the border policies in European and North American countries weren’t so hostile. Over half of confirmed migrant deaths occur while crossing the Mediterranean in unsafe conditions. These crossings could be done using far safer transit if Europe had humane border policies. So yes, you can blame the west for these deaths. On top of that European and North American countries often influence the border policies in the pass through counties such as Turkey and Mexico. > why do [refugees] get favorable treatment here? They most often don’t. But they should. The reason being is that their homes are not safe. They need to flee to a new country or risk a worse fate. In other words, they need help. A humane society would give everyone help that needs it.

iammisc 5y ago

Why is the solution to concentrate people into a small number of countries and waste all the land that they would normally live in. Contrary to popular belief, migration is not caused by climate, it's caused by culture.

cto_of_antifa 5y ago
Inb4 white genocide
runarberg 5y ago
I don’t think people are concentrating into a small number of countries at all. I don’t know where you get your numbers but according to IOM international migration was 280.6 million in 2020, of which 33.8 million were refugees. Most refugees stayed in the geographic region (e.g. a tenth of the entire refugee destination was to Turkey followed by Jordan at 3 million). True normal migration lead by culture, love, opportunities, etc. is a lot bigger factor in migration then the climate crisis, but those are not the people suffering from hostile border policies (well not on the same scale as refugees) and don’t need the same help to bypass said policies. But it would be foolish to dismiss climate change and not expect the proportion of refugees to go up in the next years compared to other migrants.

zohch 5y ago

> More people are dying on migration routes then by terrorism ~by a factor of two~ by 50%. That is, hostile border policy by western nations are causing at least many more deaths then global terrorists. So the west is responsible for people being killed outside of the west? Why don't you blame the countries where these people are getting killed in? And how many of the people dying on migrant routes actually qualify as refugees according to the definition used by UNHCR? How many countries do migrants to the west pass through on average, and if it one or more, why not blame those? Why is it not the countries these people are fleeing from that hold the ultimate responsibility? And if they are indeed refugees, why are they passing through more than one country? I am an immigrant to the west, I would love to have my family here, but I can't because they would not qualify as refugees, why do people who break the laws get favorable treatment here? Why are they entitled to me having to pay for them while my family have to struggle with violence and poverty where they live?

JoeAltmaier 5y ago
That's a very confused argument. Refugees are not a problem? Your family struggle with violence and poverty, yet the West should have tighter border controls? Who's 'officially' a refugee and who isn't? The game is called 'blamethrowing' and it accomplishes nothing.
- zohch 5y ago
  > Refugees are not a problem? Not a problem for what? > Your family struggle with violence and poverty, yet the West should have tighter border controls? What does my family's living conditions have to do with the west's border control policy? > Who's 'officially' a refugee and who isn't? I do not define this and you can find the definition used by various authorities readily available on the internet. The country where I reside uses UNHRC definitions and does not consider applications of people who are not already in the country. But as far as I know, struggling with violence and poverty is generally not enough to qualify for refugee status.
runarberg 5y ago
Seeking shelter is a protected human right. Crossing borders to seek asylum is not breaking the law. Being a refugee does not make you a criminal. Your question “why do people who break the laws get favorable treatment here?” is a loaded question based on false premise and should not be answered. However, even with a right to seek asylum many refugees need to smuggle them self into their prospected host country. This is an extremely dangerous activity, and is often done through actual criminal groups and costs a fortune. This business would not exist if the border policies in European and North American countries weren’t so hostile. Over half of confirmed migrant deaths occur while crossing the Mediterranean in unsafe conditions. These crossings could be done using far safer transit if Europe had humane border policies. So yes, you can blame the west for these deaths. On top of that European and North American countries often influence the border policies in the pass through counties such as Turkey and Mexico. > why do [refugees] get favorable treatment here? They most often don’t. But they should. The reason being is that their homes are not safe. They need to flee to a new country or risk a worse fate. In other words, they need help. A humane society would give everyone help that needs it.