9 ms·
I like this idea but I wonder whether the company has considered how many people would qualify, or if they just don’t employ enough people for it to be an actua
by biztos 5y ago
I like this idea but I wonder whether the company has considered how many people would qualify, or if they just don’t employ enough people for it to be an actual slippery slope for them.
All women in America, for starters, per their definition. Not that qualified Americans have any problem moving to Europe. But maybe Arabs in Israel, Copts in Egypt, Russians in Ukraine, Zoroastrians in Iran, lots and lots of ethnicities in China, atheists in most countries…
Nice to know their training materials are free from bias though!
https://about.gitlab.com/company/culture/inclusion/#definitions https://about.gitlab.com/company/culture/inclusion/#definiti...
- kall 5y agoI don‘t know if the slippery slope goes far enough to be a problem. Effectively, if you‘re in a position to work at GitLab, the netherlands are happy to have you. They could relocate the entire company there and it might not be a problem.
- radmuzom 5y agoMoment I read the words "mistreated in their countries", first country which came to mind was USA.
- spoonjim 5y agoHuh. Not Syria? South Sudan? Venezuela? Honduras? Belarus?
- radmuzom 5y agoNo these countries do not conduct terrorist activities or war crimes on foreign soil like the US does. Generally the first who come to mind are the ones who treat the whole world badly, in addition to their own people.
- pjc50 5y agoSeveral of those are in the middle of actual wars.
- radmuzom 5y agoYou might have missed "on foreign soil like the US does". And few of them are just attempts by US or parts of Europe to destabilize the country for their own gain.
- sharikone 5y agoIran? Last I checked they were trying to destabilize Syria, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Iraq, Yemen. Syria? Lebanon comes to mind again Russia, Armenia, Azerbaijan? All of them are involved in "foreign soil" in some way Egypt and Turkey vis-a-vis Libya (and Cyprus)? Serbia/Albania vis-a-vis Kosovo Morocco (Mali, Western Sahara)? All of them are better than the US? Not to mention that the behavior of a country "on foreign soil" is often very different than its behavior with its own citizens. That's why this division of good/evil countries often does not make sense.
- trasz 5y agoI think the point here is that US always wages wars far away from their land, so they don’t have to worry about consequences or casualties. For most other countries war is something quite different from the usual business.
- hnbad 5y agoSyria is in a civil war, with Russia and Iran assisting the Assad government and various other nations including the US having intervened at various points. South Sudan's civil war ended last year. Venezuela is not at war but is being embargoed by the US while facing an economic crisis. I have no idea what Honduras is supposed to be doing except that it's overrun with crime. Belarus is facing civil unrests and political upheaval. I'm not sure what you're referring to with your claim of "several" of them being in the middle of "actual wars". The US is in the middle of several actual wars and military actions outside war in foreign territories (mostly drone strikes). The comment you responded to clearly stated: > No these countries do not conduct terrorist activities or war crimes on foreign soil like the US does. The US does both of these things. As do several of its allies. We just tend to not to think of these things this way because we're "the good guys". Let's not forget Guantanamo (which despite Obama's promises still exists) and that US prisons routinely use "solitary confinement" which is considered torture by the UN.
- puszczyk 5y ago>> Syria? South Sudan? Venezuela? Honduras? Belarus? > these countries do not conduct terrorist activities or war crimes in a foreign soil Are you sure you comment on a good faith here?
- CatDogSheep 5y agoGoto Central African Republic, survive for a month, and then talk.
- spoonjim 5y agoOh, I see, you thought of the US as the mistreater of people in foreign countries rather than domestically? That I can agree with — someone being mistreated in their country is very unlikely to be in the US (except for a very expansive definition of mistreated) but quite likely to be in a country where the US is harming people.
- yosito 5y agoAs someone who does not live in the US, that strikes me as an incredibly spoiled and American-centric perspective. You do realize that the US is not the only country with human rights issues, and that the domestic issues in the US pale in comparison to much of the world? Consider the domestic issues in Latin America, Africa and the Middle East.
- radmuzom 5y agoI’m Indian, settled in Malaysia and a very strong supporter of China. Lived or been to several countries in East Asia or Oceania. Strongly leftist and socialist. So it is unlikely that I have an American perspective. And no, I disagree that other countries pale in comparison to US on human rights abuses. To me, for example, the very existence of the 2nd amendment (at least its current interpretation) is a human rights abuse.
- ahtihn 5y agoI don't see how the right to bear arms, interpreted in any way, could possibly be a human rights abuse. Which human right is being abused by the 2nd amendment?
- nivenkos 5y ago150k+ starting salaries when the rest of the world never reaches that even for senior engineers.... right. The US is the most privileged country on the planet, just look at the per capita CO2 emissions with their private AC and swimming pools, SUVs, etc.
- zimpenfish 5y ago> The US is the most privileged country on the planet ...for some of its population. For others, no.
- trasz 5y agoTrue, but as a country the US is definitely most privileged. And it really likes to abuse that privilege.
- 908B64B197 5y ago> 150k+ starting salaries when the rest of the world never reaches that even for senior engineers.... right. That's what happens when you work hard to build a world leading industry. I don't get why other countries whine instead of innovating themselves!
- refurb 5y agoConsidering the big disclaimer "you still need to qualify to immigrate to the Netherland under the visa process", what do they have to lose? All they are doing is saying they will support anyone who wants to make the move.
- rodgerd 5y agoNew Zealand ended up granting refugee status to a trans woman because of the violently hostile environment she was able to document in the UK. It's something that could crop up all over the show.
- Thorrez 5y agoAre atheists an underrepresented group at Gitlab? I also wonder what their precise definition of "underrepresented" is.
- lugged 5y ago> Underrepresented Group This can be defined as a group whose percentage of the population in a given group is lower than their percentage of the population of country, community, organization or otherwise. So basically they dictate policy based on population representation instead of what's actually coming through education. Sounds like a recipe for disaster.
- x4e 5y agoCould you clarify what you mean by “coming through education”? I would’ve thought that population representation is the definition of underrepresented because it shows they are underrepresented in the population. But I am interested if there is another way to measure this.
- lugged 5y agoWhat population? What if less woman want to be engineers? Does that mean less qualified woman get jobs that based on merit alone rightfully are deserved by men? What about Asians? They're over represented in engineering roles, should we stop hiring them and hire more white males to "even it out"? Or is it because they're a minority it's ok to have over representation? Do you realise that makes white people under represented? Do you just not care because they have privilege and this evens it out? Don't get me wrong, I love seeing woman in tech, I'm aware of the history of toxic behavior that prevents them from joining and pushed them out in the 70s and I do encourage initiatives to improve their representation but I draw the line at negative discrimination, that Marxist crap does nobody any good ever.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- dnsmichi 5y ago
- runarberg 5y agoSlippery slope towards what exactly? Getting skilled workers to contribute to your economy? Enriching the culture? What is the risk here?
- awestroke 5y agoSlippery slope towards what exactly? What problems do you foresee? Do you foresee that all women in america, per your example, would: 1. Start working for GitLab 2. Want to move to the Netherlands?
- biztos 5y agoIf they employ enough people, the slippery slope is that every employee who wants to live in NL has a claim on help to do so, and so the company is no longer geo-neutral but ends up, like so many other companies, having the “talent” in a rich country and all the “fungibles” elsewhere. But as others have pointed out, in real life NL would probably be happy to have up to 100% of their actual employees immigrate so it may be just well-intentioned virtue signaling. Which is also a valid recruiting strategy!
- f6v 5y agoIt’s already easy to move to the EU even without GitLab. You can get a jobseeker visa for Germany which allows you to search for employment for 6 months. I don’t think everyone will just suddenly rush to the Netherlands.
- vmception 5y agoFor Americans part of disproportionately disenfranchised groups, this is better than asylum applications to EU/EFTA/EEA countries because with asylum you have to work a shitty job for a while to prove you can integrate. Whereas with a VC backed tech company you already have a familiar experience and comfortable relatable surroundings. Yes, US citizens get accepted into asylum processes. No, not all countries offer transparency into their asylum process or metrics.
- pjc50 5y ago> asylum applications to EU/EFTA/EEA countries because with asylum you have to work a shitty job for a while to prove you can integrate Which countries are those? While the UK was an EU member, it required that asylum applicants not work, and I believe that's not an unusual restriction.
- hnbad 5y agoSame in Germany, but our immigration system is pretty ridiculous in general. It's all based on the idea that refugees don't want to live in the country and only stay here until things have calmed down, and that immigrants either really are Germans in exile or only come here to work for a while and then leave. I'm not sure whether to call it xenophobic or simply naïve, but the problem echoes throughout German bureaucracy as well as many people's attitudes. Somehow the idea that someone who flees to Germany because they lost their home and livelihood and then lives her for a decade may want to go on living here and that barring people from being productive members of society guarantees crime and illegal work. Germany learned nothing from the surprise of "guest workers" from Turkey and Italy moving to Germany to help us build cars suddenly having families and staying here forever back in the 70s.
- theonlybutlet 5y agoOther way round, they want to disincentive people who want to come and live and work in Germany from applying on the grounds of seeking asylum. Assessing an asylum application is an lengthy, arduous process, there are plenty of people who would take the chance.
- Gortal278 5y ago> Gitlab created the goal of 50% of all senior leadership should be women by December 2021 to address the imbalance within this underrepresented group. I wouldn't be too thrilled having my career advancement sacrificed in the pursuit of 50/50 men/woman representation.
- Jolter 5y agoYou are free to not apply for a senior management at that business if you don’t like that policy.
- blub 5y agoGiven that they've specifically said "advancement", the original poster must be referring to people which are already working for the stated company and will be skipped for promotion. I believe they would have grounds to sue for discrimination in such a case though.
- Gortal278 5y agoI think I have heard this before, Have you defended any bakeries discriminating against gay couples recently? Because it seems like the same reasoning.
- 7sigma 5y agoWomen haven't been too thrilled either about their career advancement being sacrificed because of workplace sexism.
- cto_of_antifa 5y agoTotally agreed, but I’ll bet anyone who’ll take the bet $20 there’s gonna be at least one long-winded comment about how you’re wrong
- lugged 5y agoReaching. Reverse discrimination is still discrimination.
- 5y ago
- iammisc 5y agoWomen in america for what?