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Wages/insurance/tips are an ongoing concern of food service work, but I want to set that aside and talk about the other half of the article. Customer entitlemen

Wages/insurance/tips are an ongoing concern of food service work, but I want to set that aside and talk about the other half of the article. Customer entitlement is out of control and anybody who works with the general public will tell you it’s gotten even worse since the pandemic—and it wasn’t trending in the right direction before. Flight attendants, park rangers, government clerks, the anecdotes are everywhere, in whispers and on social media. A good friend of mine is a doctor and he has a hair-raising story for me nearly every day, often indistinguishable from fast food customers’ behavior. I’m trying to get him to retire before he gets shot by somebody who was told they’d have to wait 3 days for an appointment. What’s going on? I have my own theories but I want HN’s take.

JoeAltmaier 5y ago
Folks are nervous and tense. It was a tense year.
oramit 5y ago
I think there has been a general rise in selfish behavior now that pandemic restrictions are being lifted. You have people who never took the pandemic seriously and now that things are back open, but are not the same, they are lashing out. That's one part of this. I also think you have another camp, which I'll admit to being a member of. I did everything I was supposed to do. I stayed at home, used masks everywhere, took no trips, and had very few social engagements for more than a year - and it sucked. Now that things are open all I want to do is go out. Even though I know that I should lower my expectations, I can't help emotionally but feel entitled to having a good time now. The thought rolling around my head is: I did everything that was asked of me for a year and a half, I deserve to have fun now. As I write that I know intellectually how self-centered, selfish, and delusion it is but I feel it intensely.
- motohagiography 5y ago
  After a year of piety, it's possibly just "moral licensing." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-licensing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-licensing) I can't remember the other term, but there is a related concept where we do things like separate our recycling, then fly private. Someone with a job helping other people becomes an abusive disaster at home. Or the classic relationship anti-pattern of partner who "does things for you, and now you owe them," (covert contract?) It's related to indulgences and self-licensing, and there is a calculation where we decide our past or even current good behaviour justifies poor behaviour now because we have an imaginary idea that we are somehow bargaining with the universe and it owes us something. (It doesn't care.) It's not the universe, it's your mother, and people are rude because they are caught in a psychological feedback loop of expectation, shame, and rage. For years I thought it was economically broken that even restaurant and café jobs required a college degree, but now I don't understand how anyone without a psychology degree could be equipped to work with the public. We are hell.
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- i_love_music 5y ago
  I really appreciate the honesty in your comment. I can relate to it closely and have had the same thought.
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- oliv__ 5y ago
  As I write that I know intellectually how self-centered, selfish, and delusion it is but I feel it intensely. Almost as if there was some kind of flaw in the initial premise...
  - oramit 5y ago
    Care to share the flaw instead of being vague?
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- vmception 5y ago
  I suggested the bold idea of going to the movies this Friday, in theatres And my friend replied “I don’t think theaters are a problem after the orgies” From my experience over the last several months hosting parties in reopened areas, people are open to anything. Even people that would be considered squares are taking the opportunity to live it up alongside the wild vagabonds I’ve never seen anything like it
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29083011397778 5y ago
Here's hoping people's behaviour improves, as getting your friend out won't save everyone. It certainly didn't save one Albertan physician [0] [0] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/red-deer-clinic-doctor-attacked-1.5681052 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/red-deer-clinic-doct...
WalterBright 5y ago
> Customer entitlement is out of control It's not just customer entitlement. It's been a steadily rising thing throughout society for my whole life. People are less and less willing to accept responsibility for their choices, and more and more it's always someone else's fault. For example, a person who chose to go $300,000 into debt to go to Columbia film school, where the starting salary upon graduating is $30,000, claims to be a victim of the school.
- YinglingLight 5y ago
  Why not? When the media we consume promotes Victimhood over taking Ownership of one's problems, isn't this behavior inevitable?
- flunhat 5y ago
  But in that example, Columbia made students big promises that it simply couldn’t deliver. It’s more like a deeply dishonest salesman than a hapless waiter who gets your order wrong. From James Stoteraux: > Many of the students in my class who didn’t turn their degrees into industry success were insanely talented, but Columbia traded on its reputation to sell them big dreams that it could never deliver. > During my 2nd year I suspected that the school wasn’t providing a launching pad to a career — most of the instructors were struggling to establish a career themselves & many weren’t even much more experienced than their students. A 4th yr student taught our cinematography class. > The brass ring the program dangled was that your film could be chosen for the annual festival where, in theory, big-time agents would see it and maybe sign you. But it was cutthroat to even be selected for the festival. And tuition didn’t cover the cost to make those films. … > I slowly begin to realize this IS the deal. He made it pretty clear if I wanted my degree, I needed to help him sell his tv pilot. Yep, the Chair of Columbia’s prestigious graduate film program tried to shake me down in order to jump-start his own stalled out career. The full thread is here: https://twitter.com/jstoteraux/status/1413326562821246978?s=21 https://twitter.com/jstoteraux/status/1413326562821246978?s=.... Students definitely deserve some blame for signing onto these expensive programs without doing any meaningful research. But university admins can be corrupt, too, and it’s likely that they used their reputation as “Columbia” to sell students something they knew was fake. Anyway, in response to the original point — I don’t think that’s a good example of entitlement since “scam” is a more appropriate word. I think they had stuff like “people being mean to waiters and flight attendants” in mind, which is a different sort of entitlement.
Invictus0 5y ago
My theory is that erosion of community leads to people increasingly not caring about how they are perceived by others. Previously, social pressure made people feel ashamed of their bad behavior. Now, there are no consequences for bad behavior, and it takes some modicum of effort to be nice to people you don't care about, and so the bad behavior continues.
- bigbob2 5y ago
  Great point. If more people did what the Cart Narc does the world might be a better place.
fpgaminer 5y ago
One thing to consider is perhaps a bias: could there be some phenomenon that makes these "entitlement" events _appear_ to be more common than they previously have been? Or are they actually more common lately? To that end, I saw an interesting statistic thrown around: "The Federal Aviation Administration said it had fielded 1,300 complaints of unruly passengers since February, the same number of enforcement actions it took against passengers in the past decade." (Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/travel/faa-unruly-airline-passenger-fines.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/travel/faa-unruly-airline...) That lends statistical credence to what you're saying: customers/people have gotten more entitled and, I'll interject my own phrasing, crazy. A 10x increase in "unruly passengers" is ... just hard to wrap my head around. Of course, that 10x spike could be primarily attributed to masks and not necessarily an increase in broader entitlement or "freakouts". That's really what we're concerned with, because the mask rules will go away eventually. So what we're all really worried about is, are people getting "crazier" in general? Or is just the mask rules rubbing a lot of the population the wrong way? That's harder to say. But I thought it important to at least address the bias question. I know myself I figured things couldn't be getting as bad as the internet makes them seem. I thought it may have been the "video camera in everyone's pocket" bias or something. But the stats point towards this possibly being a real shift. As for why people might be getting out of hand? Well I don't have specific sources for this, but I've seen a few articles and quotes that suggest that isolation can cause permanent psychological damage. I know many people expected lock downs to have negative effects on our psychologies, but I think few are aware of just how damaging it's been. And it likely had a disproportionate effect on people with existing mental illness or mental "fault lines" as I like to call them. Combined with many society's lack of support structures for mental health and, well, it's perhaps no wonder that we're seeing a lot of public "freakouts". And as you've said, customer service workers bare the brunt of that.
dfxm12 5y ago
I don't know why, but I've seen people becoming more anti-social lately in the past 5 years or so. I've always thought of myself as anti-social, but I wouldn't anymore. As I make an effort these days to be friendly to people I haven't met yet, they don't always reciprocate in kind. So these days, I feel less anti-social, but only because the bar seems to have lowered. I'm not certain why, but when I was younger, I feel like the tenor of stuff on our screens, message boards, TV, etc. was more positive than it is now. People celebrated stuff they liked more. That definitely still exists today, but more and more people are excited to celebrate a shared hate in something: sports stars (I can't watch shows like First Take on ESPN), reality tv (which seems to mostly revolve around petty conflict), politicians, I even used to use Facebook to find people to go to shows with, but I've since deactivated my account because it's not very social anymore, etc. When the people we look up are famous for being argumentative or being jerks, it makes us think that is what leads to success, or something along those lines. After realizing this, I've definitely tried to base my relationships on stuff that I like (OK, I allow myself some bashing of the Dallas Cowboys :D ). A good friend of mine is a doctor ... I’m trying to get him to retire before he gets shot by somebody who was told they’d have to wait 3 days for an appointment. I'll be honest, the receptionists at my PCP have very poor, whatever the equivalent of bedside manner is for them. When I try to make an appointment, or get a referral, I get thrown around a lot of technical terms that I don't quite understand and they don't seem to have the patience to explain to me what such and such a number is, and who I have to give it to and when. Healthcare in the US is very confusing, and when you're sick or your kid is sick, it's not always easy to deal with all that red tape. I mean, I wish I only had to wait 3 days for an appointment, but it's like, I need to make an appointment weeks in advance, give someone a number, but not too far ahead of my appointment's date, then no one can tell what any of this is going to cost, etc. It is very stressful.
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apozem 5y ago
More anecdata: my wife is a veterinarian and deals with endless angry customers who think she’s trying to rip them off or waste their time or is just plain wrong. I don’t know if there are more, but there are a lot. But, she has an out fast food workers don’t. She tells the worst offenders, “If you’re not happy with the care you’re receiving, we’d be happy to give you Fido’s records so you can take him somewhere else.” They shut up when you remind them you don’t have to fix their sick dog.
- ngngngng 5y ago
  I wish more businesses would allow their employees to do this. One of my first jobs was at a call center, and as soon as the customer stopped being professional, I would give them a single warning, and then say "since you can't remain professional, I'm going to end the call" and hang up. It was amazing! Why should your employees have to take verbal or other types of abuse from your customers?
unstatusthequo 5y ago
General entitlement is out of control. There are also plenty of restaurant workers who just don’t get jobs right now because of “free” money from the government. Their problems will compound with that Great Inflation, where everything consumer will cost more. Also, service generally blows. Even at your doctor friend’s place. I bet he has an 8 page HIPAA form that’s only fillable on paper and has duplicate entry requirements. How does this reduce frustration? Companies, regardless of size, have started assuming consumers will keep paying for shitty service. Want my cash? Provide something I want. Going to be a rude prick? Quit and go on the dole, then. Save us all the trouble. I’ll happily take my business elsewhere. It’s not like there aren’t other options available for services.
- imtringued 5y ago
  >There are also plenty of restaurant workers who just don’t get jobs right now because of “free” money from the government. What are we going to do about it? End the program? How about in september?
Kluny 5y ago
I find it very strange too, but I find it even stranger that management mostly continues to tolerate it. A business has the right to refuse service. If someone is abusing your staff, why not kick them out and ban them immediately? Public shame is the best cure for bad behavior, and staff will be loyal a manager who has their back. Instead of that, assholes mostly seem to be allowed to keep on being assholes until they get to the point of physical violence.
diob 5y ago
My opinion is it's due to the growing inequality. Folks have almost zero support, and the past year has probably hammered that in more than ever.
- Zanneth 5y ago
  It depends on the country but "zero support" is absolutely not the case in the U.S. My stepmother was receiving more money in unemployment than she ever earned as a receptionist. My mother received hero pay and bonus checks as a grocery store clerk.
dimgl 5y ago
I'm not sure what's going on, but on the flip side I've noticed a general lack of care from service workers at restaurants lately. Anecdotal evidence, obviously, but my meals have often had wrong ingredients, incorrect items, missing items, low quality items... the list goes on. This really doesn't inspire confidence or give credence to the argument that they deserve more money if they can't get basic details correct.
- claudiulodro 5y ago
  As they say: pay peanuts, get monkeys.
SavantIdiot 5y ago
Fear. When people feel up against the wall, all social protocol and laws go out the window. In the US, a faction of politicians are pushing apocalyptic thinking so hard, that everyone is getting the fear: not just the doomsayers and their followers. But it actually is getting worse. We're in a new pandemic due to to ignorance, half of the US is on fire, cost of living there is through the roof, there are armed militia rising with a political bent, and their supporting politicians are encouraging violence.... Basically, the Karens of the US are being told it is their patriotic duty to be entitled. This all comes out as panic and "me first" behavior in everyone, not just Karens, but the people that have to deal with them, it accumulates.
dcolkitt 5y ago
Along similar lines there's been a significant increase in auto fatalities despite the fact that miles driven went significantly down. Most of this can be attributed to people driving more aggressively and recklessly. Then there's the 30% rise in violent crime. The truth of the matter is that America has become a much angrier society since the pandemic started.
argvargc 5y ago
This and other dysfunction like it are just ordinary run-of-the-mill, well-documented societal effects of the rise of the kind of socio-political order proliferating lately. It hides - and so persists - deep beneath people's therefore ever-increasing unwillingness to face the reality of the consequences of what they've consented to. Such self-absorbed puffery is the hallmark of any similar regime, and those "toeing the line", which at the moment - is a large number - are of course puffed-up along with the "upper brass" they've aligned themselves with and dutifully follow, and so reap the benefits reserved for and bestowed upon only those who conform, do what they're told, and further dispense those orders to others they themselves see as subordinate. It's pathetic to watch, will come crashing down eventually, and as the dust settles, those who were ostracised and persecuted for questioning it, will lead us back. As always.
- dundarious 5y ago
  Your comment is so drenched with florid contempt and disdain that it's actually really hard to understand what you're talking about. I'm trying to be charitable in my interpretation, but even leaving aside the style, it's extremely vague. What I've taken from your comment is: - this bad thing is like other well-known bad socio-political things (which ones?) - people are just going along with it without openly acknowledging it - there are a lot of those people, and there's a hierarchy of them - it's sad and bad, but will end eventually, and as usual, some outsiders who questioned it will come back in and form the new hierarchy Now to be less than charitable for a moment, I think "It was a dark and stormy night" now has competition with: > It hides - and so persists - deep beneath people's therefore ever-increasing unwillingness to face the reality of the consequences of what they've consented to.
  - argvargc 5y ago
    I sympathise, and appreciate your summary. I was intentionally vague about exactly what I was referring to, for the very reasons that form the subject matter. Specifically, stating it directly leads to wild denials, ostracisation, persecution and generally overwrought and unjustifiable discombobulation from many - as they puff about unwilling to accept it. From a less-reticent perspective: "On 12 July the British Government announced that it will be strongly encouraging vaccine passports for venues and events to exclude the unvaccinated from public life. Although they say this is a voluntary act of discrimination, they have explicitly stated that they retain the option to make this mandatory in the future, as they also retain the option to resume police state measures as and when they please. The French government co-incidentally announced the same measure on the same day, only going much further, barring the unvaccinated from cafes, metro etc, and mandating vaccination of health workers – which is to say, putting the unvaccinated out of work. They follow the Irish and Greek governments which have brought in similar measures, along with other countries and states worldwide. The long-term effects of these measures will be disastrous. It will normalise the discrimination, exclusion and persecution of a section of the population. [...] Never underestimate how powerful the motive to retain one’s self image is. The longer this goes on and the more brutal the measures enforced the more powerful this motivation becomes. The difficulty of admitting you have been fooled is directly proportional to how much and for how long you have been fooled. Perhaps my labelling of the new regime as fascist will make it even more difficult for people to break from it, as the immediate instinct is self defence – ‘I’m not a fascist. This guy’s a lunatic, he’s calling me a fascist!’" https://leftlockdownsceptics.com/2021/07/collaboration-or-resistance-part-1-our-brand-new-shiny-fascist-state/?doing_wp_cron=1626813981.3017458915710449218750 https://leftlockdownsceptics.com/2021/07/collaboration-or-re...
gscott 5y ago
Even driving now is more difficult. I live in San Diego and it seems now people have more cars and are driving more then pre-pandemic. Half the time I can't change lanes because no one lets me in. I can't get off on some freeway off-ramps because some are backed up many hundreds of feet (so I go to the next off-ramp as I have been nearly hit by people trying to slow down to get into the off-ramp line). Strange things... I really expected to just to return more to normal but there are some changes for the worse.
- nerdponx 5y ago
  Driving in New York and New England is ridiculous now. What used to be occasional antisocial dangerous behavior is now commonplace: tailgating, speeding, aggressive lane changes, boxing people out from changing lanes. It's like everyone lost their marbles.
jdavis703 5y ago
It’s crazy out there. I checked in to the emergency room during peak COVID for a non-COVID emergency. After going through a metal detector there were six beefy security guards packed tight in a small vestibule that definitely wasn’t socially distanced. I can only imagine what kind of terrible patients the staff have to deal with if they have that level of security.
dimal 5y ago
Twitter behavior is leaking into the real world.
frankydp 5y ago
Social Media. Pretty much it. Toxic in a bottle, for profit. Well that and inflation.
bob1029 5y ago
I won't bother speculating on the origins or nature of this socioeconomic situation, but I think we can focus on the first order things we have more control over. For instance, be willing to fire your fucking customers. If someone is being a jackass in your establishment, make them leave. If they persist, involve LEO and trespass them. There is no reason this cannot extend to the software realm. Make sure your customer contracts have some sort of language regarding circumstances for termination. Apple, Google, et. al., have certainly applied this thinking to their customers via EULAs and the like. There is no customer so valuable that you should endure abuse for their patronage.

JoeAltmaier 5y ago

Folks are nervous and tense. It was a tense year.

oramit 5y ago

I think there has been a general rise in selfish behavior now that pandemic restrictions are being lifted. You have people who never took the pandemic seriously and now that things are back open, but are not the same, they are lashing out. That's one part of this. I also think you have another camp, which I'll admit to being a member of. I did everything I was supposed to do. I stayed at home, used masks everywhere, took no trips, and had very few social engagements for more than a year - and it sucked. Now that things are open all I want to do is go out. Even though I know that I should lower my expectations, I can't help emotionally but feel entitled to having a good time now. The thought rolling around my head is: I did everything that was asked of me for a year and a half, I deserve to have fun now. As I write that I know intellectually how self-centered, selfish, and delusion it is but I feel it intensely.

motohagiography 5y ago
After a year of piety, it's possibly just "moral licensing." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-licensing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-licensing) I can't remember the other term, but there is a related concept where we do things like separate our recycling, then fly private. Someone with a job helping other people becomes an abusive disaster at home. Or the classic relationship anti-pattern of partner who "does things for you, and now you owe them," (covert contract?) It's related to indulgences and self-licensing, and there is a calculation where we decide our past or even current good behaviour justifies poor behaviour now because we have an imaginary idea that we are somehow bargaining with the universe and it owes us something. (It doesn't care.) It's not the universe, it's your mother, and people are rude because they are caught in a psychological feedback loop of expectation, shame, and rage. For years I thought it was economically broken that even restaurant and café jobs required a college degree, but now I don't understand how anyone without a psychology degree could be equipped to work with the public. We are hell.
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i_love_music 5y ago
I really appreciate the honesty in your comment. I can relate to it closely and have had the same thought.
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oliv__ 5y ago
As I write that I know intellectually how self-centered, selfish, and delusion it is but I feel it intensely. Almost as if there was some kind of flaw in the initial premise...
- oramit 5y ago
  Care to share the flaw instead of being vague?
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vmception 5y ago
I suggested the bold idea of going to the movies this Friday, in theatres And my friend replied “I don’t think theaters are a problem after the orgies” From my experience over the last several months hosting parties in reopened areas, people are open to anything. Even people that would be considered squares are taking the opportunity to live it up alongside the wild vagabonds I’ve never seen anything like it
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29083011397778 5y ago

Here's hoping people's behaviour improves, as getting your friend out won't save everyone. It certainly didn't save one Albertan physician [0] [0] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/red-deer-clinic-doctor-attacked-1.5681052 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/red-deer-clinic-doct...

WalterBright 5y ago

> Customer entitlement is out of control It's not just customer entitlement. It's been a steadily rising thing throughout society for my whole life. People are less and less willing to accept responsibility for their choices, and more and more it's always someone else's fault. For example, a person who chose to go $300,000 into debt to go to Columbia film school, where the starting salary upon graduating is $30,000, claims to be a victim of the school.

YinglingLight 5y ago
Why not? When the media we consume promotes Victimhood over taking Ownership of one's problems, isn't this behavior inevitable?
flunhat 5y ago
But in that example, Columbia made students big promises that it simply couldn’t deliver. It’s more like a deeply dishonest salesman than a hapless waiter who gets your order wrong. From James Stoteraux: > Many of the students in my class who didn’t turn their degrees into industry success were insanely talented, but Columbia traded on its reputation to sell them big dreams that it could never deliver. > During my 2nd year I suspected that the school wasn’t providing a launching pad to a career — most of the instructors were struggling to establish a career themselves & many weren’t even much more experienced than their students. A 4th yr student taught our cinematography class. > The brass ring the program dangled was that your film could be chosen for the annual festival where, in theory, big-time agents would see it and maybe sign you. But it was cutthroat to even be selected for the festival. And tuition didn’t cover the cost to make those films. … > I slowly begin to realize this IS the deal. He made it pretty clear if I wanted my degree, I needed to help him sell his tv pilot. Yep, the Chair of Columbia’s prestigious graduate film program tried to shake me down in order to jump-start his own stalled out career. The full thread is here: https://twitter.com/jstoteraux/status/1413326562821246978?s=21 https://twitter.com/jstoteraux/status/1413326562821246978?s=.... Students definitely deserve some blame for signing onto these expensive programs without doing any meaningful research. But university admins can be corrupt, too, and it’s likely that they used their reputation as “Columbia” to sell students something they knew was fake. Anyway, in response to the original point — I don’t think that’s a good example of entitlement since “scam” is a more appropriate word. I think they had stuff like “people being mean to waiters and flight attendants” in mind, which is a different sort of entitlement.

Invictus0 5y ago

My theory is that erosion of community leads to people increasingly not caring about how they are perceived by others. Previously, social pressure made people feel ashamed of their bad behavior. Now, there are no consequences for bad behavior, and it takes some modicum of effort to be nice to people you don't care about, and so the bad behavior continues.

bigbob2 5y ago
Great point. If more people did what the Cart Narc does the world might be a better place.

fpgaminer 5y ago

One thing to consider is perhaps a bias: could there be some phenomenon that makes these "entitlement" events _appear_ to be more common than they previously have been? Or are they actually more common lately? To that end, I saw an interesting statistic thrown around: "The Federal Aviation Administration said it had fielded 1,300 complaints of unruly passengers since February, the same number of enforcement actions it took against passengers in the past decade." (Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/travel/faa-unruly-airline-passenger-fines.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/travel/faa-unruly-airline...) That lends statistical credence to what you're saying: customers/people have gotten more entitled and, I'll interject my own phrasing, crazy. A 10x increase in "unruly passengers" is ... just hard to wrap my head around. Of course, that 10x spike could be primarily attributed to masks and not necessarily an increase in broader entitlement or "freakouts". That's really what we're concerned with, because the mask rules will go away eventually. So what we're all really worried about is, are people getting "crazier" in general? Or is just the mask rules rubbing a lot of the population the wrong way? That's harder to say. But I thought it important to at least address the bias question. I know myself I figured things couldn't be getting as bad as the internet makes them seem. I thought it may have been the "video camera in everyone's pocket" bias or something. But the stats point towards this possibly being a real shift. As for why people might be getting out of hand? Well I don't have specific sources for this, but I've seen a few articles and quotes that suggest that isolation can cause permanent psychological damage. I know many people expected lock downs to have negative effects on our psychologies, but I think few are aware of just how damaging it's been. And it likely had a disproportionate effect on people with existing mental illness or mental "fault lines" as I like to call them. Combined with many society's lack of support structures for mental health and, well, it's perhaps no wonder that we're seeing a lot of public "freakouts". And as you've said, customer service workers bare the brunt of that.

dfxm12 5y ago

I don't know why, but I've seen people becoming more anti-social lately in the past 5 years or so. I've always thought of myself as anti-social, but I wouldn't anymore. As I make an effort these days to be friendly to people I haven't met yet, they don't always reciprocate in kind. So these days, I feel less anti-social, but only because the bar seems to have lowered. I'm not certain why, but when I was younger, I feel like the tenor of stuff on our screens, message boards, TV, etc. was more positive than it is now. People celebrated stuff they liked more. That definitely still exists today, but more and more people are excited to celebrate a shared hate in something: sports stars (I can't watch shows like First Take on ESPN), reality tv (which seems to mostly revolve around petty conflict), politicians, I even used to use Facebook to find people to go to shows with, but I've since deactivated my account because it's not very social anymore, etc. When the people we look up are famous for being argumentative or being jerks, it makes us think that is what leads to success, or something along those lines. After realizing this, I've definitely tried to base my relationships on stuff that I like (OK, I allow myself some bashing of the Dallas Cowboys :D ). A good friend of mine is a doctor ... I’m trying to get him to retire before he gets shot by somebody who was told they’d have to wait 3 days for an appointment. I'll be honest, the receptionists at my PCP have very poor, whatever the equivalent of bedside manner is for them. When I try to make an appointment, or get a referral, I get thrown around a lot of technical terms that I don't quite understand and they don't seem to have the patience to explain to me what such and such a number is, and who I have to give it to and when. Healthcare in the US is very confusing, and when you're sick or your kid is sick, it's not always easy to deal with all that red tape. I mean, I wish I only had to wait 3 days for an appointment, but it's like, I need to make an appointment weeks in advance, give someone a number, but not too far ahead of my appointment's date, then no one can tell what any of this is going to cost, etc. It is very stressful.

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apozem 5y ago

More anecdata: my wife is a veterinarian and deals with endless angry customers who think she’s trying to rip them off or waste their time or is just plain wrong. I don’t know if there are more, but there are a lot. But, she has an out fast food workers don’t. She tells the worst offenders, “If you’re not happy with the care you’re receiving, we’d be happy to give you Fido’s records so you can take him somewhere else.” They shut up when you remind them you don’t have to fix their sick dog.

ngngngng 5y ago
I wish more businesses would allow their employees to do this. One of my first jobs was at a call center, and as soon as the customer stopped being professional, I would give them a single warning, and then say "since you can't remain professional, I'm going to end the call" and hang up. It was amazing! Why should your employees have to take verbal or other types of abuse from your customers?

unstatusthequo 5y ago

General entitlement is out of control. There are also plenty of restaurant workers who just don’t get jobs right now because of “free” money from the government. Their problems will compound with that Great Inflation, where everything consumer will cost more. Also, service generally blows. Even at your doctor friend’s place. I bet he has an 8 page HIPAA form that’s only fillable on paper and has duplicate entry requirements. How does this reduce frustration? Companies, regardless of size, have started assuming consumers will keep paying for shitty service. Want my cash? Provide something I want. Going to be a rude prick? Quit and go on the dole, then. Save us all the trouble. I’ll happily take my business elsewhere. It’s not like there aren’t other options available for services.

imtringued 5y ago
>There are also plenty of restaurant workers who just don’t get jobs right now because of “free” money from the government. What are we going to do about it? End the program? How about in september?

Kluny 5y ago

I find it very strange too, but I find it even stranger that management mostly continues to tolerate it. A business has the right to refuse service. If someone is abusing your staff, why not kick them out and ban them immediately? Public shame is the best cure for bad behavior, and staff will be loyal a manager who has their back. Instead of that, assholes mostly seem to be allowed to keep on being assholes until they get to the point of physical violence.

diob 5y ago

My opinion is it's due to the growing inequality. Folks have almost zero support, and the past year has probably hammered that in more than ever.

Zanneth 5y ago
It depends on the country but "zero support" is absolutely not the case in the U.S. My stepmother was receiving more money in unemployment than she ever earned as a receptionist. My mother received hero pay and bonus checks as a grocery store clerk.

dimgl 5y ago

I'm not sure what's going on, but on the flip side I've noticed a general lack of care from service workers at restaurants lately. Anecdotal evidence, obviously, but my meals have often had wrong ingredients, incorrect items, missing items, low quality items... the list goes on. This really doesn't inspire confidence or give credence to the argument that they deserve more money if they can't get basic details correct.

claudiulodro 5y ago
As they say: pay peanuts, get monkeys.

SavantIdiot 5y ago

Fear. When people feel up against the wall, all social protocol and laws go out the window. In the US, a faction of politicians are pushing apocalyptic thinking so hard, that everyone is getting the fear: not just the doomsayers and their followers. But it actually is getting worse. We're in a new pandemic due to to ignorance, half of the US is on fire, cost of living there is through the roof, there are armed militia rising with a political bent, and their supporting politicians are encouraging violence.... Basically, the Karens of the US are being told it is their patriotic duty to be entitled. This all comes out as panic and "me first" behavior in everyone, not just Karens, but the people that have to deal with them, it accumulates.

dcolkitt 5y ago

Along similar lines there's been a significant increase in auto fatalities despite the fact that miles driven went significantly down. Most of this can be attributed to people driving more aggressively and recklessly. Then there's the 30% rise in violent crime. The truth of the matter is that America has become a much angrier society since the pandemic started.

argvargc 5y ago

This and other dysfunction like it are just ordinary run-of-the-mill, well-documented societal effects of the rise of the kind of socio-political order proliferating lately. It hides - and so persists - deep beneath people's therefore ever-increasing unwillingness to face the reality of the consequences of what they've consented to. Such self-absorbed puffery is the hallmark of any similar regime, and those "toeing the line", which at the moment - is a large number - are of course puffed-up along with the "upper brass" they've aligned themselves with and dutifully follow, and so reap the benefits reserved for and bestowed upon only those who conform, do what they're told, and further dispense those orders to others they themselves see as subordinate. It's pathetic to watch, will come crashing down eventually, and as the dust settles, those who were ostracised and persecuted for questioning it, will lead us back. As always.

dundarious 5y ago
Your comment is so drenched with florid contempt and disdain that it's actually really hard to understand what you're talking about. I'm trying to be charitable in my interpretation, but even leaving aside the style, it's extremely vague. What I've taken from your comment is: - this bad thing is like other well-known bad socio-political things (which ones?) - people are just going along with it without openly acknowledging it - there are a lot of those people, and there's a hierarchy of them - it's sad and bad, but will end eventually, and as usual, some outsiders who questioned it will come back in and form the new hierarchy Now to be less than charitable for a moment, I think "It was a dark and stormy night" now has competition with: > It hides - and so persists - deep beneath people's therefore ever-increasing unwillingness to face the reality of the consequences of what they've consented to.
- argvargc 5y ago
  I sympathise, and appreciate your summary. I was intentionally vague about exactly what I was referring to, for the very reasons that form the subject matter. Specifically, stating it directly leads to wild denials, ostracisation, persecution and generally overwrought and unjustifiable discombobulation from many - as they puff about unwilling to accept it. From a less-reticent perspective: "On 12 July the British Government announced that it will be strongly encouraging vaccine passports for venues and events to exclude the unvaccinated from public life. Although they say this is a voluntary act of discrimination, they have explicitly stated that they retain the option to make this mandatory in the future, as they also retain the option to resume police state measures as and when they please. The French government co-incidentally announced the same measure on the same day, only going much further, barring the unvaccinated from cafes, metro etc, and mandating vaccination of health workers – which is to say, putting the unvaccinated out of work. They follow the Irish and Greek governments which have brought in similar measures, along with other countries and states worldwide. The long-term effects of these measures will be disastrous. It will normalise the discrimination, exclusion and persecution of a section of the population. [...] Never underestimate how powerful the motive to retain one’s self image is. The longer this goes on and the more brutal the measures enforced the more powerful this motivation becomes. The difficulty of admitting you have been fooled is directly proportional to how much and for how long you have been fooled. Perhaps my labelling of the new regime as fascist will make it even more difficult for people to break from it, as the immediate instinct is self defence – ‘I’m not a fascist. This guy’s a lunatic, he’s calling me a fascist!’" https://leftlockdownsceptics.com/2021/07/collaboration-or-resistance-part-1-our-brand-new-shiny-fascist-state/?doing_wp_cron=1626813981.3017458915710449218750 https://leftlockdownsceptics.com/2021/07/collaboration-or-re...

gscott 5y ago

Even driving now is more difficult. I live in San Diego and it seems now people have more cars and are driving more then pre-pandemic. Half the time I can't change lanes because no one lets me in. I can't get off on some freeway off-ramps because some are backed up many hundreds of feet (so I go to the next off-ramp as I have been nearly hit by people trying to slow down to get into the off-ramp line). Strange things... I really expected to just to return more to normal but there are some changes for the worse.

nerdponx 5y ago
Driving in New York and New England is ridiculous now. What used to be occasional antisocial dangerous behavior is now commonplace: tailgating, speeding, aggressive lane changes, boxing people out from changing lanes. It's like everyone lost their marbles.

jdavis703 5y ago

It’s crazy out there. I checked in to the emergency room during peak COVID for a non-COVID emergency. After going through a metal detector there were six beefy security guards packed tight in a small vestibule that definitely wasn’t socially distanced. I can only imagine what kind of terrible patients the staff have to deal with if they have that level of security.

dimal 5y ago

Twitter behavior is leaking into the real world.

frankydp 5y ago

Social Media. Pretty much it. Toxic in a bottle, for profit. Well that and inflation.

bob1029 5y ago

I won't bother speculating on the origins or nature of this socioeconomic situation, but I think we can focus on the first order things we have more control over. For instance, be willing to fire your fucking customers. If someone is being a jackass in your establishment, make them leave. If they persist, involve LEO and trespass them. There is no reason this cannot extend to the software realm. Make sure your customer contracts have some sort of language regarding circumstances for termination. Apple, Google, et. al., have certainly applied this thinking to their customers via EULAs and the like. There is no customer so valuable that you should endure abuse for their patronage.