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Restaurant work sucks, it's not tipping's fault. I don't work nearly as hard as a software developer compared to when I was a waiter or cook. Software developme

Restaurant work sucks, it's not tipping's fault. I don't work nearly as hard as a software developer compared to when I was a waiter or cook. Software development is lower stress most of the time too.

wyager 5y ago
For me, job stress has little to do with being extremely busy in the moment and a lot to do with thinking about far-flung high-leverage consequences of mistakes (will this system crash in the middle of the night 2 weeks from now, costing tons of money and causing someone to call me in a panic?). With something like being a cook, failure feedback is usually pretty immediate, which IMO is nice for stress levels.
- rocgf 5y ago
  Have you ever worked in a kitchen or are you just assuming? I personally haven't worked in a restaurant, but I see how the staff and chefs are always running around, doing 20 things at once. Stimulants use like cocaine and amphetamine is endemic in the industry as well, probably for that reason. As a restaurant worker, the pay is usually terrible as well. So while some super rich corporation won't lose millions off of your mistakes, you can lose your job and be forced to live off of your inexistent savings. That sounds very stressful to me. Your assessment for what constitutes stress seems to be, at best, highly subjective.
  - cle 5y ago
    I cooked in professional kitchens for years before becoming a software engineer. For me, the cumulative stress of the software industry is a lot higher. I can never quite "turn off" and in the long-run it's a lot harder for me to control my psychological stress, than when I was working in a kitchen. (And of course these are highly subjective, I'd expect nothing less from a psychological phenomenon. Anecdotes will likely be all over the place.)
  - rusk 5y ago
    I worked in very busy bars for a number of years. It’s hard sometimes back breaking work but it was certainly much more “fun”. Up until the point where you end up working for penny pinching gradgrinds who see your “fun” as an externality to be eliminated. At least as a software developer I’ve a good bit more leverage around matters of occupational convenience.
  - throwmamatrain 5y ago
    Ex-deli/pizza shop worker here, you can leave it all at the store when you leave. Your slicer will not send you a message at 2am that everything is burning. For some people, server jobs are a between what they're doing. Especially for artists/filmmakers it's money between the gigs that don't pay. I met tons of people as a barista doing exactly that. Worked through college, and yes conditions need to be better overall. A concern would be if it's now a FT 40h something or other, it squeezes out people who take 6 months making coffee to get to their next acting gig. Also, barista jobs are a dime a dozen once you make some friends. Very easy to get rehired, people talk.
- conductr 5y ago
  I wouldn't be a good cook, but I get what you're saying. I miss the jobs I had when I was young that were just repetitive tasks, once muscle memory was established, you could work a shift and have a fresh mind with no stress as soon as the shift ended. I suppose it would be nice if I had my current income with that type of job but alas it was also very unsatisfying to do for a long period of time and I think I'd feel a bit unaccomplished for doing that job for a career.
daenz 5y ago
I knew someone who was mad at their partner because their partner was a software engineer and "didn't work as hard as they do" at a lower skill job, and yet made a lot more money. I'm not sure where this idea comes from that hard work is as valuable/more valuable than skilled work. But it seems to be a pervasive idea.
- abaracadab 5y ago
  I have spent thousands of hours honing my software craft outside of work/school hours. I guarantee you most folks working those minimum wage jobs are not doing the same in their field. If they were passionate about it (whether front of house or in the kitchen) they would also hone their craft and work their way out of minimum wage. The problem is that the turnover rate in restaurants is ALREADY very high. Most employees see it as a “stepping stone” while they get their careers on track.
  - moate 5y ago
    Hi there. I went to a 2 year college, spent hours outside of work reading and working on my craft and was still the highest paid line cook at a multi-million dollar restaurant at a WHOPPING 15 dollars an hour in 2016 in New Jersey. The industry is terrible. If you didn't work in it, your solutions sound a whole hell of a lot like "bootstraps". I think "there should not be such thing as poverty wages" or "if you can't afford to pay people you can't afford to run your business" are better
  - qubidt 5y ago
    From the article: > Low wages are the most common reason people cite for leaving food service work. But in one recent survey, more than half of hospitality workers who've quit said no amount of pay would get them to return. > That's because for many, leaving food service had a lot to do also with its high-stress culture: exhausting work, unreliable hours, no benefits and so many rude customers.
- falcolas 5y ago
  Skilled work is not the antonym of hard work. You can work hard doing skilled work. Knowledge work does look different from physical work, but you can work hard at both; you need to work hard at either to be successful. As for why hard physical work is so valued - only a century or two past, it was the only practical method to prevent the starvation for yourself and your family. Knowledge work being a viable means of survival (for non-nobles) is pretty new, all things considered. Even my own parents never really understood how knowledge work could be as valuable as getting out and working with your hands; and they were born in the early/mid 1900's.
abaracadab 5y ago
Some folks would say the same thing about software development sucking. I think it probably depends on which restaurant you work at and on your skill set and ability to thrive in that fast paced environment. The difference is that software is easier money if you have the knack for that type of work. But it’s like anything: you have folks who are passionate about cooking but not business savvy. They might be excellent cooks but the potential customers just eat greasy shit and don’t appreciate nuance of vegetables and spices—and so the chefs are at the mercy of substance-less customer demands. How can one be excited about that? Anyway, I don’t think the folks quitting their jobs fit this category because talented chefs can make a lot more than minimum wage. But it’s still relevant as one must be excited to go to work in the morning.
- blooalien 5y ago
  > I think it probably depends on which restaurant you work at and on your skill set and ability to thrive in that fast paced environment. Equally true of software development, systems/network administration, etc. It can totally suck, or it can be a source of joy, growth, and profit, all depending on where you're workin' and who for. Some of the best jobs I've had in both industries have been almost like "gettin' paid to play" because the whole crew was doin' stuff they already enjoyed doin' and doin' it for a boss that knew how to motivate in positive ways and how to join in and be part of the fun of it all. That plus a paycheck and benefits? Why would anyone ever want to go back to a shit job after knowing good jobs exist out there.
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  In the end restaurant work is completely unfulfilling, largely because tons of customers treat you like shit. I've never experienced that as a software engineer. It's not even about the pay.
- ketzo 5y ago
  I think this is a little ignorant of the actual, moment-to-moment realities of working these jobs. Software development is done from a laptop, in whatever air-conditioned room or office you'd like. Restaurant work is, by definition, hot, loud, and surrounded by people who treat you like a servant. You could take two people who have the exact same "knack" for each profession, and one of them would still be much more miserable. It just sucks more to be in a restaurant than it does to write code. I think that's kind of tough to argue.

wyager 5y ago

For me, job stress has little to do with being extremely busy in the moment and a lot to do with thinking about far-flung high-leverage consequences of mistakes (will this system crash in the middle of the night 2 weeks from now, costing tons of money and causing someone to call me in a panic?). With something like being a cook, failure feedback is usually pretty immediate, which IMO is nice for stress levels.

rocgf 5y ago
Have you ever worked in a kitchen or are you just assuming? I personally haven't worked in a restaurant, but I see how the staff and chefs are always running around, doing 20 things at once. Stimulants use like cocaine and amphetamine is endemic in the industry as well, probably for that reason. As a restaurant worker, the pay is usually terrible as well. So while some super rich corporation won't lose millions off of your mistakes, you can lose your job and be forced to live off of your inexistent savings. That sounds very stressful to me. Your assessment for what constitutes stress seems to be, at best, highly subjective.
- cle 5y ago
  I cooked in professional kitchens for years before becoming a software engineer. For me, the cumulative stress of the software industry is a lot higher. I can never quite "turn off" and in the long-run it's a lot harder for me to control my psychological stress, than when I was working in a kitchen. (And of course these are highly subjective, I'd expect nothing less from a psychological phenomenon. Anecdotes will likely be all over the place.)
- rusk 5y ago
  I worked in very busy bars for a number of years. It’s hard sometimes back breaking work but it was certainly much more “fun”. Up until the point where you end up working for penny pinching gradgrinds who see your “fun” as an externality to be eliminated. At least as a software developer I’ve a good bit more leverage around matters of occupational convenience.
- throwmamatrain 5y ago
  Ex-deli/pizza shop worker here, you can leave it all at the store when you leave. Your slicer will not send you a message at 2am that everything is burning. For some people, server jobs are a between what they're doing. Especially for artists/filmmakers it's money between the gigs that don't pay. I met tons of people as a barista doing exactly that. Worked through college, and yes conditions need to be better overall. A concern would be if it's now a FT 40h something or other, it squeezes out people who take 6 months making coffee to get to their next acting gig. Also, barista jobs are a dime a dozen once you make some friends. Very easy to get rehired, people talk.
conductr 5y ago
I wouldn't be a good cook, but I get what you're saying. I miss the jobs I had when I was young that were just repetitive tasks, once muscle memory was established, you could work a shift and have a fresh mind with no stress as soon as the shift ended. I suppose it would be nice if I had my current income with that type of job but alas it was also very unsatisfying to do for a long period of time and I think I'd feel a bit unaccomplished for doing that job for a career.

daenz 5y ago

I knew someone who was mad at their partner because their partner was a software engineer and "didn't work as hard as they do" at a lower skill job, and yet made a lot more money. I'm not sure where this idea comes from that hard work is as valuable/more valuable than skilled work. But it seems to be a pervasive idea.

abaracadab 5y ago
I have spent thousands of hours honing my software craft outside of work/school hours. I guarantee you most folks working those minimum wage jobs are not doing the same in their field. If they were passionate about it (whether front of house or in the kitchen) they would also hone their craft and work their way out of minimum wage. The problem is that the turnover rate in restaurants is ALREADY very high. Most employees see it as a “stepping stone” while they get their careers on track.
- moate 5y ago
  Hi there. I went to a 2 year college, spent hours outside of work reading and working on my craft and was still the highest paid line cook at a multi-million dollar restaurant at a WHOPPING 15 dollars an hour in 2016 in New Jersey. The industry is terrible. If you didn't work in it, your solutions sound a whole hell of a lot like "bootstraps". I think "there should not be such thing as poverty wages" or "if you can't afford to pay people you can't afford to run your business" are better
- qubidt 5y ago
  From the article: > Low wages are the most common reason people cite for leaving food service work. But in one recent survey, more than half of hospitality workers who've quit said no amount of pay would get them to return. > That's because for many, leaving food service had a lot to do also with its high-stress culture: exhausting work, unreliable hours, no benefits and so many rude customers.
falcolas 5y ago
Skilled work is not the antonym of hard work. You can work hard doing skilled work. Knowledge work does look different from physical work, but you can work hard at both; you need to work hard at either to be successful. As for why hard physical work is so valued - only a century or two past, it was the only practical method to prevent the starvation for yourself and your family. Knowledge work being a viable means of survival (for non-nobles) is pretty new, all things considered. Even my own parents never really understood how knowledge work could be as valuable as getting out and working with your hands; and they were born in the early/mid 1900's.

abaracadab 5y ago

Some folks would say the same thing about software development sucking. I think it probably depends on which restaurant you work at and on your skill set and ability to thrive in that fast paced environment. The difference is that software is easier money if you have the knack for that type of work. But it’s like anything: you have folks who are passionate about cooking but not business savvy. They might be excellent cooks but the potential customers just eat greasy shit and don’t appreciate nuance of vegetables and spices—and so the chefs are at the mercy of substance-less customer demands. How can one be excited about that? Anyway, I don’t think the folks quitting their jobs fit this category because talented chefs can make a lot more than minimum wage. But it’s still relevant as one must be excited to go to work in the morning.

blooalien 5y ago
> I think it probably depends on which restaurant you work at and on your skill set and ability to thrive in that fast paced environment. Equally true of software development, systems/network administration, etc. It can totally suck, or it can be a source of joy, growth, and profit, all depending on where you're workin' and who for. Some of the best jobs I've had in both industries have been almost like "gettin' paid to play" because the whole crew was doin' stuff they already enjoyed doin' and doin' it for a boss that knew how to motivate in positive ways and how to join in and be part of the fun of it all. That plus a paycheck and benefits? Why would anyone ever want to go back to a shit job after knowing good jobs exist out there.
colinmhayes 5y ago
In the end restaurant work is completely unfulfilling, largely because tons of customers treat you like shit. I've never experienced that as a software engineer. It's not even about the pay.
ketzo 5y ago
I think this is a little ignorant of the actual, moment-to-moment realities of working these jobs. Software development is done from a laptop, in whatever air-conditioned room or office you'd like. Restaurant work is, by definition, hot, loud, and surrounded by people who treat you like a servant. You could take two people who have the exact same "knack" for each profession, and one of them would still be much more miserable. It just sucks more to be in a restaurant than it does to write code. I think that's kind of tough to argue.