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I met a dowser as a teenager on a school trip. He gave us pairs of L-shaped metal rods held loosely in plastic holders. We walked round an ancient stone circle.

by dash2 5y ago

I met a dowser as a teenager on a school trip. He gave us pairs of L-shaped metal rods held loosely in plastic holders. We walked round an ancient stone circle. Every so often the rods would just swing sideways to face left and right. He said those were the ley lines. I was quite impressed. Anyone want to debunk this?

mikestew 5y ago
Debunk your misremembering an event from ten or more years ago? Hard pass on that one, it practically debunks itself. Beside, the burden lies with you to convince others, not the other way around.
- dash2 5y ago
  Who said I was convinced or wanted to convince others? I was just curious. Chill! I don't believe in dowsing, I just had an interesting experience which I wanted to pass on.
wpietri 5y ago
For starters, try subtracting the word "just" from your statement. It means you have already decided things about what you saw. Things you can't prove. And second, how about you go and read some things from skeptics about dowsing and then ask that question? One of the most tedious things on the internet is somebody who basically says, "Please argue me out of my own ignorance." Sorry, but your ignorance is your problem, and it's rude to inflict your problems on others.
ud_0 5y ago
> Anyone want to debunk this? There is no need to debunk every claim. I could say "the rods are held in an unstable way" and "your mind makes your body do things without you noticing" but that's just a guess at what happened. I wasn't there, and it's not necessary. Claims can be made vastly quicker than debunkings can. It's the other way around: people who claim they can do water sensing should submit to controlled experiments. After that, we'd know what their performance was given the experimental circumstandes.
dekhn 5y ago
no, you're expected to "bunk" it, we're not expected to "de-bunk" it.
srtjstjsj 5y ago
Wind? Gravity? Leverage in how the metal leans on the plastic? How could a ley line do nothing but make a metal bar wiggle arbitrarily and inconsistently? Did you find any water?
pavel_lishin 5y ago
Debunk what? There is no provable statement that was made, other than "sometimes these sticks move around."
bordercases 5y ago
Me personally, I don't necessarily disbelieve in ley lines, but to assert their existence should involve independent verification from other means of observation. This is easier in the dowsing-for-water case than in the ley line case, where the construct itself is disputed and depends on a narrow band of observational methods (right now). Unless you already had other reasons to believe in the existence of ley lines, you yourself should have remained slightly more skeptical.
JKCalhoun 5y ago
Try the experiment again. But use balanced "T" shaped rods instead of "L". Ley lines should rotate the rods regardless, right? This removes gravity from the equation. Also, non ferrous. Also, film it from above so you can see if several people, on several passes, get the same movement at the same location. Ley lines shouldn't move, right? Sounds like you could solve this in an afternoon.
tootie 5y ago
Same as a Ouija board probably. Hold something very delicate with a awkward grip and tiny muscle spasms will result in exaggerated movement. There's no physical interaction that connects underground water to your hands or to the rods. If it detects anything it would be magnetic deposits or electrical fields, but more likely it's just exploiting the edges of your physical perception. Like an optical illusion but for your motor neurons.

by dash2 5y ago

mikestew 5y ago

Debunk your misremembering an event from ten or more years ago? Hard pass on that one, it practically debunks itself. Beside, the burden lies with you to convince others, not the other way around.

dash2 5y ago
Who said I was convinced or wanted to convince others? I was just curious. Chill! I don't believe in dowsing, I just had an interesting experience which I wanted to pass on.

wpietri 5y ago

For starters, try subtracting the word "just" from your statement. It means you have already decided things about what you saw. Things you can't prove. And second, how about you go and read some things from skeptics about dowsing and then ask that question? One of the most tedious things on the internet is somebody who basically says, "Please argue me out of my own ignorance." Sorry, but your ignorance is your problem, and it's rude to inflict your problems on others.

ud_0 5y ago

> Anyone want to debunk this? There is no need to debunk every claim. I could say "the rods are held in an unstable way" and "your mind makes your body do things without you noticing" but that's just a guess at what happened. I wasn't there, and it's not necessary. Claims can be made vastly quicker than debunkings can. It's the other way around: people who claim they can do water sensing should submit to controlled experiments. After that, we'd know what their performance was given the experimental circumstandes.

dekhn 5y ago

no, you're expected to "bunk" it, we're not expected to "de-bunk" it.

srtjstjsj 5y ago

Wind? Gravity? Leverage in how the metal leans on the plastic? How could a ley line do nothing but make a metal bar wiggle arbitrarily and inconsistently? Did you find any water?

pavel_lishin 5y ago

Debunk what? There is no provable statement that was made, other than "sometimes these sticks move around."

bordercases 5y ago

Me personally, I don't necessarily disbelieve in ley lines, but to assert their existence should involve independent verification from other means of observation. This is easier in the dowsing-for-water case than in the ley line case, where the construct itself is disputed and depends on a narrow band of observational methods (right now). Unless you already had other reasons to believe in the existence of ley lines, you yourself should have remained slightly more skeptical.

JKCalhoun 5y ago

Try the experiment again. But use balanced "T" shaped rods instead of "L". Ley lines should rotate the rods regardless, right? This removes gravity from the equation. Also, non ferrous. Also, film it from above so you can see if several people, on several passes, get the same movement at the same location. Ley lines shouldn't move, right? Sounds like you could solve this in an afternoon.

tootie 5y ago

Same as a Ouija board probably. Hold something very delicate with a awkward grip and tiny muscle spasms will result in exaggerated movement. There's no physical interaction that connects underground water to your hands or to the rods. If it detects anything it would be magnetic deposits or electrical fields, but more likely it's just exploiting the edges of your physical perception. Like an optical illusion but for your motor neurons.