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So, the trouble is that meditation as a practice, was always embedded into a larger sense of spirit/community/whatever. The popularity of MBSR broke that large

So, the trouble is that meditation as a practice, was always embedded into a larger sense of spirit/community/whatever. The popularity of MBSR broke that largely, and now lots of people start meditating with the notion that it's just mental exercise (which it is, sortof) and are very unprepared for some of the negative side-effects (which are normally parts of the mind that your consciousness doesn't want to accept).

SyzygistSix 5y ago
People like Aleister Crowley, Austin Spare, and modern psychonauts interested in chaos magic have worked/played in these spaces outside of established traditions and communities. And there have always been people like this. But they also fully expect some weirdness to occur. Meditation within a community and tradition is certainly a safer, and often more fruitful way to go about it, just like traveling anywhere with a group, a guide, on established paths, and with a good map. It's a good way to learn the ropes but some folks like to take more adventurous approaches.
- disgruntledphd2 5y ago
  > Aleister Crowley I'm kinda with his student, Israel Regardie on this stuff though, which was that if you want to engage in spiritual practices, you should get therapy. Essentially the notion is that in order to deal with the divine/universe/whatever, you need to have dealt with the mundane. I think that this is really accurate, and would support this. Unfortunately, the "mindfulness" movement didn't really keep any of the baby when they experimented on the bathwater.
  - SyzygistSix 5y ago
    Agreed. I think therapy and counseling is under-rated and under-utilized. There are many situations in life where a counselor's help can be beneficial. It's not just for the weak, ill, or for people who have failed. And even the strongest among us have been all three at times. And New Age-type movements are not a good replacement.
ljm 5y ago
I wouldn't even call them negative, per se, even though you might perceive them as such. These are things you've held deep down that are, through your heightened self-awareness, being dragged kicking and screaming to the surface. Once the duck is out of the bottle, you can't put it back in. You have to take care of the duck. Having a support network or community certainly helps, and the meditation just shone the light on what was already there.

SyzygistSix 5y ago

People like Aleister Crowley, Austin Spare, and modern psychonauts interested in chaos magic have worked/played in these spaces outside of established traditions and communities. And there have always been people like this. But they also fully expect some weirdness to occur. Meditation within a community and tradition is certainly a safer, and often more fruitful way to go about it, just like traveling anywhere with a group, a guide, on established paths, and with a good map. It's a good way to learn the ropes but some folks like to take more adventurous approaches.

disgruntledphd2 5y ago
> Aleister Crowley I'm kinda with his student, Israel Regardie on this stuff though, which was that if you want to engage in spiritual practices, you should get therapy. Essentially the notion is that in order to deal with the divine/universe/whatever, you need to have dealt with the mundane. I think that this is really accurate, and would support this. Unfortunately, the "mindfulness" movement didn't really keep any of the baby when they experimented on the bathwater.
- SyzygistSix 5y ago
  Agreed. I think therapy and counseling is under-rated and under-utilized. There are many situations in life where a counselor's help can be beneficial. It's not just for the weak, ill, or for people who have failed. And even the strongest among us have been all three at times. And New Age-type movements are not a good replacement.

ljm 5y ago

I wouldn't even call them negative, per se, even though you might perceive them as such. These are things you've held deep down that are, through your heightened self-awareness, being dragged kicking and screaming to the surface. Once the duck is out of the bottle, you can't put it back in. You have to take care of the duck. Having a support network or community certainly helps, and the meditation just shone the light on what was already there.