5 ms·

Wikipedia co-founder: I no longer trust the website I created [video]

18 points by DeusExMachina 5y ago

raxxorrax 5y ago
Wikipedia is awesome as long as there is zero political content in an article. Of course you need to look at primary sources. I don't think writing something angry about a politician or public persona is a too great offense, good that people are interested at least and the community often did a great job of cleaning that up when feelings cooled down. But the propaganda wars in recent times are on a whole other level, especially since there are PR firms that found out about the prevalence of Wikipedia in peoples lives. The articles about ant-eaters are still extremely awesome. Math is surprisingly stringent in what is regarded as relevant for an article, you don't find too much context. There are some advantages to that though.
- yummypaint 5y ago
  Yeah wikipedia is still the go-to jumping off point for most science and math topics. It's has articles as informative as many domain specific textbooks, but covering all areas. I would claim it's the single best technical reference humanity has produced yet. Can't this be enough? It doesn't also have to be the arbiter of all truth.
tharne 5y ago
Why is this guy so surprised? This is exactly what everyone was worried about when Wikipedia launched. Namely, that an encyclopedia that anyone could edit would inevitably run into serious issues.
mgh2 5y ago
“Truth is singular. Its 'versions' are mistruths.” ― David Mitchell, Cloud Atlas A recent narrative that has been pushed to people is that "truth is relative", leading to today's landscape. Can't we use data to make people think and reach a common truth? We can't entirely get rid of manipulators, but it is less likely if the scientific method is properly applied. Ultimately it comes to the integrity of the society backing the information, which is deteriorating, resulting in a feedback loop. https://m-g-h.medium.com/in-data-we-trust-2978dacc8c22 https://m-g-h.medium.com/in-data-we-trust-2978dacc8c22 https://m-g-h.medium.com/why-we-are-dispensable-7a577eba4f3e https://m-g-h.medium.com/why-we-are-dispensable-7a577eba4f3e
- etripe 5y ago
  Truth being relative is a recent phenomenon, but only from a historian's perspective. Post-modernism has been mainstream for three, four decades. I don't see it going away any time soon, because it's awfully compatible with our marketing driven economies. What matters (and coincidentally, sells) is not what reality is, but the stories you can tell about it. Not vanilla or chocolate, but liberty (0). Covid became a very partisan issue across the world, despite the numbers being clear. So have climate change, incarceration versus rehabilitation, drug legalisation versus prohibition, increasing minimum wages, single-payer healthcare systems, quantitative easing or austerity. It doesn't seem to me the data was ever the problem. Are you arguing basic scientific literacy is? [0] https://www.quotes.net/mquote/129661 https://www.quotes.net/mquote/129661
  - mgh2 5y ago
    Yes maybe, but most importantly, critical thinking and ethics
tapoxi 5y ago
Larry Sanger has never liked or trusted Wikipedia. He always believed in Nupedia or Citizendium, that an encyclopedia needs an authoritative editor. I'm not sure what's new about this take.
merricksb 5y ago
Discussed a few days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27850652 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27850652

18 points by DeusExMachina 5y ago

Wikipedia is awesome as long as there is zero political content in an article. Of course you need to look at primary sources. I don't think writing something angry about a politician or public persona is a too great offense, good that people are interested at least and the community often did a great job of cleaning that up when feelings cooled down. But the propaganda wars in recent times are on a whole other level, especially since there are PR firms that found out about the prevalence of Wikipedia in peoples lives. The articles about ant-eaters are still extremely awesome. Math is surprisingly stringent in what is regarded as relevant for an article, you don't find too much context. There are some advantages to that though.

yummypaint 5y ago
Yeah wikipedia is still the go-to jumping off point for most science and math topics. It's has articles as informative as many domain specific textbooks, but covering all areas. I would claim it's the single best technical reference humanity has produced yet. Can't this be enough? It doesn't also have to be the arbiter of all truth.

tharne 5y ago

Why is this guy so surprised? This is exactly what everyone was worried about when Wikipedia launched. Namely, that an encyclopedia that anyone could edit would inevitably run into serious issues.

mgh2 5y ago

“Truth is singular. Its 'versions' are mistruths.” ― David Mitchell, Cloud Atlas A recent narrative that has been pushed to people is that "truth is relative", leading to today's landscape. Can't we use data to make people think and reach a common truth? We can't entirely get rid of manipulators, but it is less likely if the scientific method is properly applied. Ultimately it comes to the integrity of the society backing the information, which is deteriorating, resulting in a feedback loop. https://m-g-h.medium.com/in-data-we-trust-2978dacc8c22 https://m-g-h.medium.com/in-data-we-trust-2978dacc8c22 https://m-g-h.medium.com/why-we-are-dispensable-7a577eba4f3e https://m-g-h.medium.com/why-we-are-dispensable-7a577eba4f3e

etripe 5y ago
Truth being relative is a recent phenomenon, but only from a historian's perspective. Post-modernism has been mainstream for three, four decades. I don't see it going away any time soon, because it's awfully compatible with our marketing driven economies. What matters (and coincidentally, sells) is not what reality is, but the stories you can tell about it. Not vanilla or chocolate, but liberty (0). Covid became a very partisan issue across the world, despite the numbers being clear. So have climate change, incarceration versus rehabilitation, drug legalisation versus prohibition, increasing minimum wages, single-payer healthcare systems, quantitative easing or austerity. It doesn't seem to me the data was ever the problem. Are you arguing basic scientific literacy is? [0] https://www.quotes.net/mquote/129661 https://www.quotes.net/mquote/129661
- mgh2 5y ago
  Yes maybe, but most importantly, critical thinking and ethics

tapoxi 5y ago

Larry Sanger has never liked or trusted Wikipedia. He always believed in Nupedia or Citizendium, that an encyclopedia needs an authoritative editor. I'm not sure what's new about this take.

merricksb 5y ago

Discussed a few days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27850652 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27850652