16 ms·

Isn't (esp dissociative experiences) what is called "dark nights" in the Buddhist traditions?

automatic6131 5y ago
Yes, this is mentioned explicitly in the article too.
bencollier49 5y ago
The "Dark Night" is typically attributed to St. John of the Cross, although I'd be willing to believe that the term has been used in other traditions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Night_of_the_Soul https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Night_of_the_Soul Ah, note the last paragraph in this article: 'In modern mindfulness practice, many authors have named a similar phenomenon in meditation as the dark night of the soul after the poem. It is often described as a lengthened and intense state of depression or ennui caused by errant or irresponsible meditation practices. Author John Yates compares it to a Theravadan term, dukkha ñanas, or "knowledges of suffering".'
- Leparamour 5y ago
  >irresponsible meditation practices I can't imagine what an irresponsible meditation practice would look like. Any pointers?
  - orwin 5y ago
    Meditating alone for starter? Meditating too long. Meditating before your day start and you get into stressfull situation. It should be done step by step, carefully. I think philosophers talked about habitus, and nowadays we might be able to "fix" phobia with a mix of MRI and reinforcement learning, slowly. Or how to reduce your fear of falling when rockclimbing, by falling "on purpose" when you are in between pitons by an increasingly large length.
  - SyzygistSix 5y ago
    In Buddhism, one big one would be not keeping in mind the primary goal of non-attachment. Non-attachment to bliss, horror, expectations, and certainly not to any goal. The Biography of Naropa would make an amazing horror movie. Really wild read as well.
  - goodpoint 5y ago
    Meditating without an experienced and well trained teacher.
  - bencollier49 5y ago
    It's worth ruminating on the fact that all medicines are also poisons. This is why homeopathy is so safe.
    - bencollier49 5y ago
      Ah, this needs explaining - any tool which can cure can also cause injury. Too much of a medicine will kill. Homeopathy is useless, which is why you can't harm anyone with it. Meditation does work, which is why it can also be dangerous.
  - denton-scratch 5y ago
    Check out Kundalini Yoga.
- bobthechef 5y ago
  I would be very careful in comparing what St. John means and what is meant in the Buddhist sense. See [0] for those interested in a brief comparison. Selected quotes: "The ultimate end of man for Christians is union with God, while for Buddhists it is Nirvana (complete detachment, or a state of nothingness)." "For Buddhists, salvation is a privation of individual consciousness; for Catholics salvation is an eternally fulfilling relationship with a loving Creator." "For both Buddhists and Catholics “detachment” is important, but for Catholics detachment is not an end in itself. St. Francis de Sales preached that man must desire to “possess his soul” rather than allow it to be possessed by worldly things. Catholics pursue this for the purpose of elevating their soul by offering it back to Christ. So detachment is a means to a rich and meaningful “higher awareness” (if you will) that reaches its culmination in seeing God face to face." So this (temporary) dark night of the soul ultimately leads to a deeper, perhaps more mystical relationship with God. [0] https://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/catholicism-and-buddhism-compatible-beliefs/ https://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/catholicism-and-b...
  - amanaplanacanal 5y ago
    He may have a good grasp of what Catholicism is about, but his grasp of Buddhism seems pretty shallow. I would not take this article on faith.
  - gbuk2013 5y ago
    I will assume in good faith that the person you are quoting simply doesn’t not have sufficient understanding of Buddhist philosophy. Enlightenment is the same regardless of the path you take to get there. When “this” and “that” are gone what is there?
  - bencollier49 5y ago
    I'm inclined to agree with you. The comparison being made between the two states seems almost like a way for this particular Buddhist to cast shade on the Christian mystical tradition. "Oh yes, we know about that; that's when you're not doing it properly".
rocqua 5y ago
The article mentions that he experienced this, read about the dark night and the advice to "push through it" and that that advice backfired horribly.

Yes, this is mentioned explicitly in the article too.

The "Dark Night" is typically attributed to St. John of the Cross, although I'd be willing to believe that the term has been used in other traditions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Night_of_the_Soul https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Night_of_the_Soul Ah, note the last paragraph in this article: 'In modern mindfulness practice, many authors have named a similar phenomenon in meditation as the dark night of the soul after the poem. It is often described as a lengthened and intense state of depression or ennui caused by errant or irresponsible meditation practices. Author John Yates compares it to a Theravadan term, dukkha ñanas, or "knowledges of suffering".'

Leparamour 5y ago
>irresponsible meditation practices I can't imagine what an irresponsible meditation practice would look like. Any pointers?
- orwin 5y ago
  Meditating alone for starter? Meditating too long. Meditating before your day start and you get into stressfull situation. It should be done step by step, carefully. I think philosophers talked about habitus, and nowadays we might be able to "fix" phobia with a mix of MRI and reinforcement learning, slowly. Or how to reduce your fear of falling when rockclimbing, by falling "on purpose" when you are in between pitons by an increasingly large length.
- SyzygistSix 5y ago
  In Buddhism, one big one would be not keeping in mind the primary goal of non-attachment. Non-attachment to bliss, horror, expectations, and certainly not to any goal. The Biography of Naropa would make an amazing horror movie. Really wild read as well.
- goodpoint 5y ago
  Meditating without an experienced and well trained teacher.
- bencollier49 5y ago
  It's worth ruminating on the fact that all medicines are also poisons. This is why homeopathy is so safe.
  - bencollier49 5y ago
    Ah, this needs explaining - any tool which can cure can also cause injury. Too much of a medicine will kill. Homeopathy is useless, which is why you can't harm anyone with it. Meditation does work, which is why it can also be dangerous.
- denton-scratch 5y ago
  Check out Kundalini Yoga.
bobthechef 5y ago
I would be very careful in comparing what St. John means and what is meant in the Buddhist sense. See [0] for those interested in a brief comparison. Selected quotes: "The ultimate end of man for Christians is union with God, while for Buddhists it is Nirvana (complete detachment, or a state of nothingness)." "For Buddhists, salvation is a privation of individual consciousness; for Catholics salvation is an eternally fulfilling relationship with a loving Creator." "For both Buddhists and Catholics “detachment” is important, but for Catholics detachment is not an end in itself. St. Francis de Sales preached that man must desire to “possess his soul” rather than allow it to be possessed by worldly things. Catholics pursue this for the purpose of elevating their soul by offering it back to Christ. So detachment is a means to a rich and meaningful “higher awareness” (if you will) that reaches its culmination in seeing God face to face." So this (temporary) dark night of the soul ultimately leads to a deeper, perhaps more mystical relationship with God. [0] https://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/catholicism-and-buddhism-compatible-beliefs/ https://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/catholicism-and-b...
- amanaplanacanal 5y ago
  He may have a good grasp of what Catholicism is about, but his grasp of Buddhism seems pretty shallow. I would not take this article on faith.
- gbuk2013 5y ago
  I will assume in good faith that the person you are quoting simply doesn’t not have sufficient understanding of Buddhist philosophy. Enlightenment is the same regardless of the path you take to get there. When “this” and “that” are gone what is there?
- bencollier49 5y ago
  I'm inclined to agree with you. The comparison being made between the two states seems almost like a way for this particular Buddhist to cast shade on the Christian mystical tradition. "Oh yes, we know about that; that's when you're not doing it properly".

rocqua 5y ago

The article mentions that he experienced this, read about the dark night and the advice to "push through it" and that that advice backfired horribly.