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I'd love for you to expand on that opinion. In some ways I think it's a good product that gives some measure of control (and a _lot_ of the money) back to the p

by girvo 5y ago

I'd love for you to expand on that opinion. In some ways I think it's a good product that gives some measure of control (and a _lot_ of the money) back to the people who star in and create pornographic content. The existing industry is exploitative and predatory, and from my admittedly not-very-well-versed vantage point, OnlyFans is much less so due to the very nature of its product and who its content creators are.

recn14b 5y ago
> OnlyFans is much less so due to the very nature of its product and who its content creators are. This is an extremely generous view. It's well known that cam sites often feature trafficked victims. Why wouldn't you also assume that an OnlyFans is also run by a trafficker? You cited yourself that the industry is predatory and exploitative. Do you honestly believe that most of these woman truly made this choice themselves?
- ioseph 5y ago
  On one hand not requiring to go through a studio would make it easier for trafficking, but porn studios don't exactly have a fantastic track record when it comes to human rights. On the other hand for individual content makers using this platform gives them far more control over the type of content they produce and a fairer share of the profit.
  - girvo 5y ago
    You've summed up my opinion entirely in two sentences haha, well done. That's why my original comment was prefaced with "in some ways".
- asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
  I can't speak for the person you're responding to, but I don't think an assumption of human trafficking by the site's owners is supported given that some other site's owners did human trafficking. By all accounts I've been exposed to, models on OnlyFans earn much better than models on other sites. That seems like a prima facie reason to believe it's overall a good thing, and the evidence would need to be presented to demonstrate otherwise. Starting with the assumption the owner of something you don't like is a human trafficker is not a good way to make a convincing case against OnlyFans.
  - lxmorj 5y ago
    I believe he is not saying the site owners are traffickers but that some OF channels could be trafficker run.
    - asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
      Oh, if that's so then I'm even less clear on what we expect OnlyFans to do about it, unless we are going to ban the whole sector of sex work. Some restaurants launder money for the mob too, but we still have restaurants. If there are sensible steps OF could take to reduce the incidence of this, then they should. But it's hard for me to think of what that might be, given any response made over the internet could easily be coerced. Are there ideas I can read up on?
      - kyleee 5y ago
        Let's engage in a hypothetical to flesh out your position; if 10% of only fans accounts were victims of human trafficking, acting at the behest of their traffickers, what course(s) of action would you recommend for only fans (as a company), and from regulatory bodies?
        Cipater 5y ago
        How would OF know?
        asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
        I think all regulatory regimes that have any chance of addressing this would require government support. Perhaps something like requiring any model to first go alone to identify herself to the police or other authority and certify her age. This would provide an opportunity to escape a captor. Perhaps this would be an annual thing. But the proper incentives would need to be in place. She'd need to be allowed to stay in country if she is a foreign victim of trafficking, for example. We would want to prevent this from becoming some type of guild where incumbents can keep out new competition. And the police would need to be supportive in this process (i.e. promptly inform OF of models' eligibility, and otherwise participate in the process in good faith). It's hard to see that happening in, e.g., the United States.
- vmception 5y ago
  Earn, (which was acquired by Coinbase and shutdown/rebranded), did the same thing as OnlyFans, charging for direct messages. There are many services like that. Many content producers on OnlyFans switch away from subscription model to just freemium with paid direct messages. It is unnecessarily gendered to treat OnlyFans differently just because the many content creators on OnlyFans are women leading with their bodies. Maybe you weren't aware of other services that let people charge for DMs that simply didn't get associated with adult content, maybe that's not what you meant, but the comment you replied to said the OnlyFans platform is less about the nature of its product and more about who its content creators are, which you seemed to disagree with but then replied with a completely different comment.
  - the_doctah 5y ago
    >It requires pure misogyny to treat OnlyFans differently just because the content creators on OnlyFans are women leading with their bodies So if we took misogyny out of the equation no one would think OnlyFans favors attractive women?
    - vmception 5y ago
      It is no reason to treat the platform differently than other platforms
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
base698 5y ago
Doesn't seem to be the case: https://mobile.twitter.com/aella_girl/status/1335725267340251137 https://mobile.twitter.com/aella_girl/status/133572526734025... Has MLM level distribution where only the top 2% or so make anything of consequence.
- girvo 5y ago
  That doesn't really disagree with anything I wrote. I was mainly implicitly comparing it to "regular" pornography and cam-sites. The latter take huge percentages comparatively, and the former don't give percentages to most of their performers at all.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  What that says is of the accounts that make anything the average person makes $500. Which is about 7% of all accounts. Which isn't bad.
jazzyjackson 5y ago
Not OP, but IMO onlyfans is especially predatory because it makes it look easy to trade nudes for large amounts of cash. In reality very few people are going to be making above minimum wage, onlyfans is just like the rest of social media - a lottery that pays millions to a few winners and asks all the other participants to create content for next-to-nothing just to enter the lotto.
- runawaybottle 5y ago
  I’d posit that OnlyFans operates on the freemium video games model where a few select whales generate all their money. You just really need to catch one person who is into you.
- chii 5y ago
  > onlyfans is especially predatory if this is what you call predatory, then why isn't sports stars and film/music celebrity culture not predatory in the same way? I don't see the difference. I say let people do what they want, as long as they understand what they're doing and is informed of the (potential) consequences.
  - afarrell 5y ago
    People do say that about the music industry. Ask Kesha or Britney!
  - labster 5y ago
    Sports is predatory, see the NCAA monopoly. Music was well known in the last century for predatory contracts. People like Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey from the film industry are often called predators, and the casting couch is legendary. Celebrity culture is highly predatory with obsessive fans and stalker paparazzi. You’re right, no real difference.
    - nostromo 5y ago
      People are free to do something else if their dream job doesn’t pay them a wage they feel is fair.

by girvo 5y ago

recn14b 5y ago

> OnlyFans is much less so due to the very nature of its product and who its content creators are. This is an extremely generous view. It's well known that cam sites often feature trafficked victims. Why wouldn't you also assume that an OnlyFans is also run by a trafficker? You cited yourself that the industry is predatory and exploitative. Do you honestly believe that most of these woman truly made this choice themselves?

ioseph 5y ago
On one hand not requiring to go through a studio would make it easier for trafficking, but porn studios don't exactly have a fantastic track record when it comes to human rights. On the other hand for individual content makers using this platform gives them far more control over the type of content they produce and a fairer share of the profit.
- girvo 5y ago
  You've summed up my opinion entirely in two sentences haha, well done. That's why my original comment was prefaced with "in some ways".
asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
I can't speak for the person you're responding to, but I don't think an assumption of human trafficking by the site's owners is supported given that some other site's owners did human trafficking. By all accounts I've been exposed to, models on OnlyFans earn much better than models on other sites. That seems like a prima facie reason to believe it's overall a good thing, and the evidence would need to be presented to demonstrate otherwise. Starting with the assumption the owner of something you don't like is a human trafficker is not a good way to make a convincing case against OnlyFans.
- lxmorj 5y ago
  I believe he is not saying the site owners are traffickers but that some OF channels could be trafficker run.
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
    Oh, if that's so then I'm even less clear on what we expect OnlyFans to do about it, unless we are going to ban the whole sector of sex work. Some restaurants launder money for the mob too, but we still have restaurants. If there are sensible steps OF could take to reduce the incidence of this, then they should. But it's hard for me to think of what that might be, given any response made over the internet could easily be coerced. Are there ideas I can read up on?
    - kyleee 5y ago
      Let's engage in a hypothetical to flesh out your position; if 10% of only fans accounts were victims of human trafficking, acting at the behest of their traffickers, what course(s) of action would you recommend for only fans (as a company), and from regulatory bodies?
      - Cipater 5y ago
        How would OF know?
      - asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
        I think all regulatory regimes that have any chance of addressing this would require government support. Perhaps something like requiring any model to first go alone to identify herself to the police or other authority and certify her age. This would provide an opportunity to escape a captor. Perhaps this would be an annual thing. But the proper incentives would need to be in place. She'd need to be allowed to stay in country if she is a foreign victim of trafficking, for example. We would want to prevent this from becoming some type of guild where incumbents can keep out new competition. And the police would need to be supportive in this process (i.e. promptly inform OF of models' eligibility, and otherwise participate in the process in good faith). It's hard to see that happening in, e.g., the United States.
vmception 5y ago
Earn, (which was acquired by Coinbase and shutdown/rebranded), did the same thing as OnlyFans, charging for direct messages. There are many services like that. Many content producers on OnlyFans switch away from subscription model to just freemium with paid direct messages. It is unnecessarily gendered to treat OnlyFans differently just because the many content creators on OnlyFans are women leading with their bodies. Maybe you weren't aware of other services that let people charge for DMs that simply didn't get associated with adult content, maybe that's not what you meant, but the comment you replied to said the OnlyFans platform is less about the nature of its product and more about who its content creators are, which you seemed to disagree with but then replied with a completely different comment.
- the_doctah 5y ago
  >It requires pure misogyny to treat OnlyFans differently just because the content creators on OnlyFans are women leading with their bodies So if we took misogyny out of the equation no one would think OnlyFans favors attractive women?
  - vmception 5y ago
    It is no reason to treat the platform differently than other platforms
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

base698 5y ago

Doesn't seem to be the case: https://mobile.twitter.com/aella_girl/status/1335725267340251137 https://mobile.twitter.com/aella_girl/status/133572526734025... Has MLM level distribution where only the top 2% or so make anything of consequence.

girvo 5y ago
That doesn't really disagree with anything I wrote. I was mainly implicitly comparing it to "regular" pornography and cam-sites. The latter take huge percentages comparatively, and the former don't give percentages to most of their performers at all.
ipaddr 5y ago
What that says is of the accounts that make anything the average person makes $500. Which is about 7% of all accounts. Which isn't bad.

jazzyjackson 5y ago

Not OP, but IMO onlyfans is especially predatory because it makes it look easy to trade nudes for large amounts of cash. In reality very few people are going to be making above minimum wage, onlyfans is just like the rest of social media - a lottery that pays millions to a few winners and asks all the other participants to create content for next-to-nothing just to enter the lotto.

runawaybottle 5y ago
I’d posit that OnlyFans operates on the freemium video games model where a few select whales generate all their money. You just really need to catch one person who is into you.
chii 5y ago
> onlyfans is especially predatory if this is what you call predatory, then why isn't sports stars and film/music celebrity culture not predatory in the same way? I don't see the difference. I say let people do what they want, as long as they understand what they're doing and is informed of the (potential) consequences.
- afarrell 5y ago
  People do say that about the music industry. Ask Kesha or Britney!
- labster 5y ago
  Sports is predatory, see the NCAA monopoly. Music was well known in the last century for predatory contracts. People like Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey from the film industry are often called predators, and the casting couch is legendary. Celebrity culture is highly predatory with obsessive fans and stalker paparazzi. You’re right, no real difference.
  - nostromo 5y ago
    People are free to do something else if their dream job doesn’t pay them a wage they feel is fair.