5 ms·

I dont understand why they sell the pro. The touchbar is rubbish and the air has 99% the same performance. Yeah the pro can go faster for longer without throttl

by tbrock 5y ago

I dont understand why they sell the pro. The touchbar is rubbish and the air has 99% the same performance. Yeah the pro can go faster for longer without throttle but its heavier and doesnt have those physical f-keys. Its more expensive too… not sure why anyone would buy it over the air. Two more usb-c but you can only hook in one external monitor! Also 200 more nits on screen but… is it really that important? I cant wait for the 14/16 with the m1x. These are already barn burners.

cletus 5y ago
The Touch Bar makes me so angry. Why? Because it's a less reliable laptop with a worse keyboard that exists for no other reason than to raise the ASP (Average Selling Price) of Macs. That's it. Go back 5+ years and you had the (2010+) Macbook Air, which was fantastic. A good compromise of size and power at a really low price. Like competitors just couldn't compete. The only problem? By 2015 or so the display was pretty outdated. It needed a thinner bezel and a retina display and it would've been perfect. But no, Johnny Ive came along with his war of thinness and foisted the butterfly keyboard on us and added the Touch Bar to increase the price. There's no other reason for it to exist.
SpelingBeeChamp 5y ago
Obviously, to people who choose to pay for it. I produce video news and the Touch Bar is integral to my workflow. Just because something is not useful to you doesn’t mean it’s useless.
- SilverRed 5y ago
  The touch bar should have been in addition to the function row really. On the 16" mac there is plenty of space for both. Few people hate the touch bar, they hate the lack of function keys.
  - baggy_trough 5y ago
    I hate it because it’s too easy to accidentally press a “key” and trigger some potentially large scale event.
    - ziml77 5y ago
      This has always been my issue with it. For some reason it doesn't have pressure sensitivity like the trackpad (which also has no physical button). Lightly brushing the touchbar is enough to activate the controls on it.
    - mixmastamyk 5y ago
      I hate it because it takes three taps and a delay to change the volume or brightness, 99% of my use case.
- jacurtis 5y ago
  Yep we share the same unpopular opinion. I really like the Touch Bar.
- threatofrain 5y ago
  And the rumors say that Apple will be removing it. Let's wait and see for the upcoming rumored 14/16 Macbooks.
- gberger 5y ago
  I'm curious, how is the touch bar used in your workflow?
  - sprafa 5y ago
    Final Cut Pro most likely.
    - SpelingBeeChamp 5y ago
      Correct. The Touch Bar is also well-integrated into QuickTime Player as well as Quicklook, making video navigation much more efficient. I only wish VLC would use it for timeline navigation.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  I do like the idea - and I saw a Windows laptop with a bigger 'touch bar' that I think is even more practical - but I just wished they offered a version without it. I heard the value of just the touch bar is in the region of $600 (random guess), because it adds some hardware from the Apple Watch to the Mac. That's a lot of money for a feature like that.
kylec 5y ago
It actually has the same number of USB-C ports, the M1 MacBook Pros only have 2. But, from the perspective of someone who bought one, I got it for the sustained performance provided via the active cooling and for the extra battery life. Would love the physical keys instead of the touch bar, but I've used a touch bar for the past 5 years so it's whatever.
noizejoy 5y ago
Having enjoyed using an Elgato StreamDeck on a windows box for a while, my next MacBook Pro upgrade cycle definitely includes a touchbar on the wish list.
breck 5y ago
I used Macbook Airs for 10 years. Had a week with a loaner machine which happened to be an MBP with TouchBar and I found it neat, and so ended up getting an M1 with TouchBar. I like it. I so rarely use the F keys that it's kind of nice to have sliders, emojis, mute button, et cetera up there. I almost certainly could live without it, but I used to hate on it and now at least opted for it.
- 2muchcoffeeman 5y ago
  I kinda like it too but I resent it a lot because they displaced the function keys. Had they kept both, I think we’d be seeing more touch base fans. A lot of the time it’s really nice to have a context sensitive/modal form of input.
1123581321 5y ago
The differences are larger battery, active cooling, touch bar, brighter screen, better speakers, and the base ram/storage model has the 8 core GPU.
bdcravens 5y ago
> you can only hook in one external monitor You can run multiple monitors on an m1 with a DisplayPort hub. (not relevant to the point about the number of usb-c ports of course, since you're plugging into the hub anyways)
darthrupert 5y ago
Yep, the touchbar is pretty horrid. It's my personal decision point for the question "linux or mac?" If Apple fails to provide a pro model without the touchbar, my next laptop will be Linux.
ksec 5y ago
>he touchbar is rubbish and the air has 99% the same performance. It only have 99% of the performance under specific loads. The Air is ~12W TDP, the MBP is a ~20W TDP. That is quite a bit of difference ( 70% ) when you absolutely pushes it to the limit in both CPU and GPU. That is why half of the not "throttle" comment in this thread dont make much sense as they only consider the CPU usage pattern.
- Joeri 5y ago
  The point is that there are very few real world workloads that get it to throttle, and even more rarely will it throttle enough to matter. 99% of use cases are not affected.
  - ksec 5y ago
    MacBook Pro, by Apple's pro definition aims at creative professional which tends to use GPU a lot more. Which means they are much more likely to be throttled by TDP limitation in a MacBook Air. There are also a lot of other use cases where GPU or NPU are important.
    - SpelingBeeChamp 5y ago
      This. As I wrote in another comment, I produce video news. My M1 MacBook Pro is a beast of a machine, but I work it to the point of full-blast fans every day.
deergomoo 5y ago
> Two more usb-c but you can only hook in one external monitor! Actually you still only get two USB-C ports on the M1 MacBook Pro. The four-port model is still Intel. That lower-spec Pro has never made much sense. The last time an entry level MacBook Pro made sense was 2015, where you got a noticeably higher TDP chip (28W vs 15W in the Air iirc—could be mistaken), more IO (two Thunderbolt 2 ports vs the Air's 1, and a full-size HDMI port), and of course an IPS retina screen. I think the low-end Pro came to existence because they intended it to replace the Air, but the tiny 12" MacBook had already claimed the unadorned "MacBook" name, which would have made a lot more sense. But then they ended up refreshing the Air as people just never stopped buying the old one, despite its ageing internals and garbage 2010-era screen (possibly because it was the only computer Apple were selling at the time with a keyboard that worked). I have no idea while it still exists though. It's filling a niche that isn't there. I think the intent is for it to be basically an "upmarket" alternative to the Air, but they only thing they have to offer right now is a Touch Bar. Which for most people, including myself, is more of a reason not to buy it.

by tbrock 5y ago

cletus 5y ago

The Touch Bar makes me so angry. Why? Because it's a less reliable laptop with a worse keyboard that exists for no other reason than to raise the ASP (Average Selling Price) of Macs. That's it. Go back 5+ years and you had the (2010+) Macbook Air, which was fantastic. A good compromise of size and power at a really low price. Like competitors just couldn't compete. The only problem? By 2015 or so the display was pretty outdated. It needed a thinner bezel and a retina display and it would've been perfect. But no, Johnny Ive came along with his war of thinness and foisted the butterfly keyboard on us and added the Touch Bar to increase the price. There's no other reason for it to exist.

SpelingBeeChamp 5y ago

Obviously, to people who choose to pay for it. I produce video news and the Touch Bar is integral to my workflow. Just because something is not useful to you doesn’t mean it’s useless.

SilverRed 5y ago
The touch bar should have been in addition to the function row really. On the 16" mac there is plenty of space for both. Few people hate the touch bar, they hate the lack of function keys.
- baggy_trough 5y ago
  I hate it because it’s too easy to accidentally press a “key” and trigger some potentially large scale event.
  - ziml77 5y ago
    This has always been my issue with it. For some reason it doesn't have pressure sensitivity like the trackpad (which also has no physical button). Lightly brushing the touchbar is enough to activate the controls on it.
  - mixmastamyk 5y ago
    I hate it because it takes three taps and a delay to change the volume or brightness, 99% of my use case.
jacurtis 5y ago
Yep we share the same unpopular opinion. I really like the Touch Bar.
threatofrain 5y ago
And the rumors say that Apple will be removing it. Let's wait and see for the upcoming rumored 14/16 Macbooks.
gberger 5y ago
I'm curious, how is the touch bar used in your workflow?
- sprafa 5y ago
  Final Cut Pro most likely.
  - SpelingBeeChamp 5y ago
    Correct. The Touch Bar is also well-integrated into QuickTime Player as well as Quicklook, making video navigation much more efficient. I only wish VLC would use it for timeline navigation.
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
I do like the idea - and I saw a Windows laptop with a bigger 'touch bar' that I think is even more practical - but I just wished they offered a version without it. I heard the value of just the touch bar is in the region of $600 (random guess), because it adds some hardware from the Apple Watch to the Mac. That's a lot of money for a feature like that.

kylec 5y ago

It actually has the same number of USB-C ports, the M1 MacBook Pros only have 2. But, from the perspective of someone who bought one, I got it for the sustained performance provided via the active cooling and for the extra battery life. Would love the physical keys instead of the touch bar, but I've used a touch bar for the past 5 years so it's whatever.

noizejoy 5y ago

Having enjoyed using an Elgato StreamDeck on a windows box for a while, my next MacBook Pro upgrade cycle definitely includes a touchbar on the wish list.

breck 5y ago

I used Macbook Airs for 10 years. Had a week with a loaner machine which happened to be an MBP with TouchBar and I found it neat, and so ended up getting an M1 with TouchBar. I like it. I so rarely use the F keys that it's kind of nice to have sliders, emojis, mute button, et cetera up there. I almost certainly could live without it, but I used to hate on it and now at least opted for it.

2muchcoffeeman 5y ago
I kinda like it too but I resent it a lot because they displaced the function keys. Had they kept both, I think we’d be seeing more touch base fans. A lot of the time it’s really nice to have a context sensitive/modal form of input.

1123581321 5y ago

The differences are larger battery, active cooling, touch bar, brighter screen, better speakers, and the base ram/storage model has the 8 core GPU.

bdcravens 5y ago

> you can only hook in one external monitor You can run multiple monitors on an m1 with a DisplayPort hub. (not relevant to the point about the number of usb-c ports of course, since you're plugging into the hub anyways)

darthrupert 5y ago

Yep, the touchbar is pretty horrid. It's my personal decision point for the question "linux or mac?" If Apple fails to provide a pro model without the touchbar, my next laptop will be Linux.

ksec 5y ago

>he touchbar is rubbish and the air has 99% the same performance. It only have 99% of the performance under specific loads. The Air is ~12W TDP, the MBP is a ~20W TDP. That is quite a bit of difference ( 70% ) when you absolutely pushes it to the limit in both CPU and GPU. That is why half of the not "throttle" comment in this thread dont make much sense as they only consider the CPU usage pattern.

Joeri 5y ago
The point is that there are very few real world workloads that get it to throttle, and even more rarely will it throttle enough to matter. 99% of use cases are not affected.
- ksec 5y ago
  MacBook Pro, by Apple's pro definition aims at creative professional which tends to use GPU a lot more. Which means they are much more likely to be throttled by TDP limitation in a MacBook Air. There are also a lot of other use cases where GPU or NPU are important.
  - SpelingBeeChamp 5y ago
    This. As I wrote in another comment, I produce video news. My M1 MacBook Pro is a beast of a machine, but I work it to the point of full-blast fans every day.

deergomoo 5y ago

> Two more usb-c but you can only hook in one external monitor! Actually you still only get two USB-C ports on the M1 MacBook Pro. The four-port model is still Intel. That lower-spec Pro has never made much sense. The last time an entry level MacBook Pro made sense was 2015, where you got a noticeably higher TDP chip (28W vs 15W in the Air iirc—could be mistaken), more IO (two Thunderbolt 2 ports vs the Air's 1, and a full-size HDMI port), and of course an IPS retina screen. I think the low-end Pro came to existence because they intended it to replace the Air, but the tiny 12" MacBook had already claimed the unadorned "MacBook" name, which would have made a lot more sense. But then they ended up refreshing the Air as people just never stopped buying the old one, despite its ageing internals and garbage 2010-era screen (possibly because it was the only computer Apple were selling at the time with a keyboard that worked). I have no idea while it still exists though. It's filling a niche that isn't there. I think the intent is for it to be basically an "upmarket" alternative to the Air, but they only thing they have to offer right now is a Touch Bar. Which for most people, including myself, is more of a reason not to buy it.