7 ms·

I think rendering stolen devices useless is also on the feature list. iPhone theft has become super rare, because a stolen device is neigh-impossible to activat

by mikl 5y ago

I think rendering stolen devices useless is also on the feature list. iPhone theft has become super rare, because a stolen device is neigh-impossible to activate and thus has little to no resale value.

williamdclt 5y ago
I've heard stories of people getting their phone snatched from their hand by a thief on a moped, then seeing the thief checking if the phone is unlocked while driving away and throwing it away immediately if it is (probably smashing it to the ground)
- judge2020 5y ago
  Seems like it'd be mostly useless, though - everyone I know sets up the iPhone without messing with too many settings, which means enabling Find My iPhone (which is on by default). The only place I imagine it being worth it is outside of Apple Stores or cell carrier stores where there's a higher chance they haven't set up FMI yet.
  - michaelt 5y ago
    Presumably when you snatch a phone, you don’t know if you’re getting a (worthless) iPhone until after the deed is done…
  - williamdclt 5y ago
    I don't have an iPhone so I don't really know what I'm talking about, but maybe there's ways to reset the phone as long as it's already unblocked? It would take a while for a victim to get to a computer and use Find My iPhone Anyway, I assume they do something with these unblocked phones, but maybe only androids :shrug:
curiousgal 5y ago
lol you give thieves too much credit. Literally two minutes ago I was watching a video of thieves trying to ram a car into an ATM in France.
- mikl 5y ago
  Even the stupid thief will learn, once he tries to fence a stolen device and gets little-to-nothing for his efforts.
- finnh 5y ago
  Presumably the ATM has money in it, rather than iPhones.
  - Engineering-MD 5y ago
    I think the point is that their technique is unlikely to work
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
developer2 5y ago
This has already been a thing for Macs as well for many, many years. If you boot into recovery mode, there is a menu option to add a Firmware Password. You cannot access recovery mode or enter the boot selection menu without providing that password, which means a thief cannot reinstall any operating system or boot from a Linux thumb drive. When you add a Firmware Password to a Mac, you get a long recovery code as a fallback safety in case you lose/forget the password. Apple, if provided with proof of purchase for the serial number being inquired about, can create a bootable USB stick with a certificate generated using public/private key crypto for which Apple holds the private keys. I suspect much of this newer functionality acts as a replacement for the Firmware Password, giving more options and making it a bit more well-known.
fortran77 5y ago
> iPhone theft has become super rare, This is simply untrue. It may be hard to activate it, but it still has value for its screen, case, camera, and other parts. https://cbslocal.com/2018/01/31/despite-anti-theft-features-thieves-seek-out-iphones/ https://cbslocal.com/2018/01/31/despite-anti-theft-features-...
- simondotau 5y ago
  The GP was incorrect to describe it as "super rare" but rates of phone theft did plummet and have not subsequently recovered. Exactly what you'd expect for an asset which had its fenced value drop from ~$500 (a fully working second hand device) to ~$100 (a bunch of used parts which require non-trivial labour to extract).
  - fortran77 5y ago
    You think a junkie will stop stealing an easily grabbed item because he can only get $25 for it instead of $50?
    - simondotau 5y ago
      There are no absolutes. Most all crime carries some risk—or perceived risk—of getting caught, even if that risk is low. If the value of the device changes, the risk/reward trade-off changes. Yes, even for a tripped out junkie.
satysin 5y ago
It is less common these days thanks to activation lock, Find My Phone, etc. but it still happens a fair bit for parts. The system board is useless thanks to activation lock but the battery, screen, cameras, housing, etc. are all useful to any repair business. I think the only part they can't replace is the FaceID module as Apple require specific software to configure it only available to certified repair techs so a small repair store won't have access to it but a genuine battery or screen or camera on the cheap from a stolen phone is good money to smaller repair shops.
- sumedh 5y ago
  > but the battery, screen, cameras, housing, etc. are all useful Wasnt there a video a while back where a famous repair guy from Australia could not use the camera of another exact same iphone. The original phone was not usable but when you put the orignal camera back it starts working. Apple might start doing that for each and every component soon in the name of safety and security.
southerntofu 5y ago
It's not a feature, it's an anti-feature. Preventing people from using a device they get second-hand is actively hurting poorer economies, because they can't benefit from all the hardware at disposal but have to dispose of it as part of global "recycling" trade (which has nothing to do with recycling and everything to do with piling up devices in areas where random folks will use dangerous chemicals to scrap parts or tiny bits of gold). And then you they go even further with stories like that: https://www.vice.com/en/article/yp73jw/apple-recycling-iphones-macbooks https://www.vice.com/en/article/yp73jw/apple-recycling-iphon... Apple is doing such policy not for security, as they still own the master key to everything they produce (!), but for making sure people keep on buying new products and destroying the planet ever more. Screw this crap. EDIT: If you like to think of yourself as an eco-responsible or eco-worried person, consider how "right to repair" (or "apple/samsung locks" on the other hand of the spectrum) fit into that worldview.
- gjsman-1000 5y ago
  You know that they will unlock devices if you bring them to an Apple store and have proof of purchase, right?
  - chii 5y ago
    which requires effort, and requires proximity to the store, requires time, etc. Why can't I, as an owner, choose to unlock the mac myself without having an external authority to "let" me?
    - ViViDboarder 5y ago
      I’m not sure what the situation for the M1 is, but as the parent comment referenced similarity to the iPhone to prevent theft, with the iPhone, the owner can unlock the device prior to resale. Is this really not possible with an M1 Mac?
      - southerntofu 5y ago
        Probably but many people forget to. Or sell the device once they haven't used it for years, and forgot the passphrase. Or give it away without leaving contact information and without thinking about the passphrase at all. I don't have statistics at hand, and overall the M1 is pretty new so it's not a problem for this device YET, but it's a serious problem i notice several times a year in my close circle.

by mikl 5y ago

williamdclt 5y ago

I've heard stories of people getting their phone snatched from their hand by a thief on a moped, then seeing the thief checking if the phone is unlocked while driving away and throwing it away immediately if it is (probably smashing it to the ground)

judge2020 5y ago
Seems like it'd be mostly useless, though - everyone I know sets up the iPhone without messing with too many settings, which means enabling Find My iPhone (which is on by default). The only place I imagine it being worth it is outside of Apple Stores or cell carrier stores where there's a higher chance they haven't set up FMI yet.
- michaelt 5y ago
  Presumably when you snatch a phone, you don’t know if you’re getting a (worthless) iPhone until after the deed is done…
- williamdclt 5y ago
  I don't have an iPhone so I don't really know what I'm talking about, but maybe there's ways to reset the phone as long as it's already unblocked? It would take a while for a victim to get to a computer and use Find My iPhone Anyway, I assume they do something with these unblocked phones, but maybe only androids :shrug:

curiousgal 5y ago

lol you give thieves too much credit. Literally two minutes ago I was watching a video of thieves trying to ram a car into an ATM in France.

mikl 5y ago
Even the stupid thief will learn, once he tries to fence a stolen device and gets little-to-nothing for his efforts.
finnh 5y ago
Presumably the ATM has money in it, rather than iPhones.
- Engineering-MD 5y ago
  I think the point is that their technique is unlikely to work
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

developer2 5y ago

This has already been a thing for Macs as well for many, many years. If you boot into recovery mode, there is a menu option to add a Firmware Password. You cannot access recovery mode or enter the boot selection menu without providing that password, which means a thief cannot reinstall any operating system or boot from a Linux thumb drive. When you add a Firmware Password to a Mac, you get a long recovery code as a fallback safety in case you lose/forget the password. Apple, if provided with proof of purchase for the serial number being inquired about, can create a bootable USB stick with a certificate generated using public/private key crypto for which Apple holds the private keys. I suspect much of this newer functionality acts as a replacement for the Firmware Password, giving more options and making it a bit more well-known.

fortran77 5y ago

> iPhone theft has become super rare, This is simply untrue. It may be hard to activate it, but it still has value for its screen, case, camera, and other parts. https://cbslocal.com/2018/01/31/despite-anti-theft-features-thieves-seek-out-iphones/ https://cbslocal.com/2018/01/31/despite-anti-theft-features-...

simondotau 5y ago
The GP was incorrect to describe it as "super rare" but rates of phone theft did plummet and have not subsequently recovered. Exactly what you'd expect for an asset which had its fenced value drop from ~$500 (a fully working second hand device) to ~$100 (a bunch of used parts which require non-trivial labour to extract).
- fortran77 5y ago
  You think a junkie will stop stealing an easily grabbed item because he can only get $25 for it instead of $50?
  - simondotau 5y ago
    There are no absolutes. Most all crime carries some risk—or perceived risk—of getting caught, even if that risk is low. If the value of the device changes, the risk/reward trade-off changes. Yes, even for a tripped out junkie.

satysin 5y ago

It is less common these days thanks to activation lock, Find My Phone, etc. but it still happens a fair bit for parts. The system board is useless thanks to activation lock but the battery, screen, cameras, housing, etc. are all useful to any repair business. I think the only part they can't replace is the FaceID module as Apple require specific software to configure it only available to certified repair techs so a small repair store won't have access to it but a genuine battery or screen or camera on the cheap from a stolen phone is good money to smaller repair shops.

sumedh 5y ago
> but the battery, screen, cameras, housing, etc. are all useful Wasnt there a video a while back where a famous repair guy from Australia could not use the camera of another exact same iphone. The original phone was not usable but when you put the orignal camera back it starts working. Apple might start doing that for each and every component soon in the name of safety and security.

southerntofu 5y ago

It's not a feature, it's an anti-feature. Preventing people from using a device they get second-hand is actively hurting poorer economies, because they can't benefit from all the hardware at disposal but have to dispose of it as part of global "recycling" trade (which has nothing to do with recycling and everything to do with piling up devices in areas where random folks will use dangerous chemicals to scrap parts or tiny bits of gold). And then you they go even further with stories like that: https://www.vice.com/en/article/yp73jw/apple-recycling-iphones-macbooks https://www.vice.com/en/article/yp73jw/apple-recycling-iphon... Apple is doing such policy not for security, as they still own the master key to everything they produce (!), but for making sure people keep on buying new products and destroying the planet ever more. Screw this crap. EDIT: If you like to think of yourself as an eco-responsible or eco-worried person, consider how "right to repair" (or "apple/samsung locks" on the other hand of the spectrum) fit into that worldview.

gjsman-1000 5y ago
You know that they will unlock devices if you bring them to an Apple store and have proof of purchase, right?
- chii 5y ago
  which requires effort, and requires proximity to the store, requires time, etc. Why can't I, as an owner, choose to unlock the mac myself without having an external authority to "let" me?
  - ViViDboarder 5y ago
    I’m not sure what the situation for the M1 is, but as the parent comment referenced similarity to the iPhone to prevent theft, with the iPhone, the owner can unlock the device prior to resale. Is this really not possible with an M1 Mac?
    - southerntofu 5y ago
      Probably but many people forget to. Or sell the device once they haven't used it for years, and forgot the passphrase. Or give it away without leaving contact information and without thinking about the passphrase at all. I don't have statistics at hand, and overall the M1 is pretty new so it's not a problem for this device YET, but it's a serious problem i notice several times a year in my close circle.