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Aren't these private hacking companies breaking the law though? Does anyone know why no one has sued them or arrested them or something? From what I understand
by ackbar03 5y ago
Aren't these private hacking companies breaking the law though? Does anyone know why no one has sued them or arrested them or something? From what I understand in most cases, any attempts to reverse engineer or exploit any system is against terms of service with the offender held liable. Some teenager who comes up with a game hack can be slapped with a massive fine, but these hacking companies aren't even breaking the law? How does that work?
Cause I think I'm in the wrong game
- markus_zhang 5y agoThose guys don't care about laws.
- dogma1138 5y agoNot anymore than a defense contractor is breaking the law. Their sells are export controlled in a similar manner that arms sales are.
- Ygg2 5y agoIt's easier to go against a Chiuaua, than a dire wolf. Same with suits.
- ruined 5y agonso group is based in israel. suing them for activities directed by the israeli state is not likely to be effective. it would be like trying to sue a ransomware group in russia, or a phone company in america.
- azernik 5y agoIn this case it's not directed by the Israeli state; the Israeli state just doesn't really care, and doesn't want to interfere with the post-army job prospects of intelligence personnel.
- sva_ 5y ago> The Israeli minister of defence closely regulates NSO, granting individual export licences before its surveillance technology can be sold to a new country.
- azernik 5y agoAnd he's always going to say yes unless it's going to some truly extravagant abuser (e.g. North Korea), or to a customer that would cause diplomatic problems with the US (e.g. China... maybe). The state absolutely has the power to turn this into an instrument of foreign policy; it has chosen not to do so, in order to use it as an instrument of military-industrial policy. (To be clear - the Israeli state is absolutely the actor to put pressure on if you want this kind of thing to stop, and indeed bears moral responsibility. But the actions of these companies are not so closely tied to Israeli state interests as to make them immune to lawsuits abroad, or even in Israel if they violate Israeli law.)
- mahkeiro 5y agoNo but at least try to make sure that people working for them are banned from the international security community. They are clearly not working for the good guys (specifically here French journalist under surveillance of Morocco spies)
- mromanuk 5y agoWhen the customer are certain government agencies, there is the law and the law.
- dogorman 5y ago> Aren't these private hacking companies breaking the law though? Like Russia, Israel doesn't seem to give a damn when criminal enterprises operating in their borders victimize people in other countries. This shit has been going on for years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Download_Valley https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Download_Valley
- dogma1138 5y agoGamma Group, Hacking Team and a plethora of other European companies were/are in the same business.
- dogorman 5y agoI brought up Russia to make the point that Israel isn't the only country that operates like this. But they are one of the countries that does and their reputation for it spans decades.
- dogma1138 5y agoOperate like what?
- dogorman 5y ago> "doesn't seem to give a damn when criminal enterprises operating in their borders victimize people in other countries."
- dogma1138 5y agoNone of these seem to be criminal enterprises… also you think adware is unique to Israel and Russia?
- dogorman 5y ago1. Helping people murder journalists is a crime. 2. You say 'adware', while Wikipedia says: "These software items are commonly browser toolbars, adware, browser hijackers, spyware, and malware." 3. I provided two examples of countries that operate like this, not a comprehensive list. I gave the second example to make clear that I was not claiming only one country operates like this. I already clarified this for you. I don't think you are commenting in good faith. I will not respond to you again, even this response was doubtlessly a waste of my time.
- squarefoot 5y agoWhen you get a government contract in this and similar fields, it usually comes with protection against most laws, no matter which ones are broken and where (see "Blackwater").
- SheinhardtWigCo 5y agoBut these contracts are with foreign governments.
- squarefoot 5y agoUnfortunately, under the table agreements are a thing, all it needs is all parties to have something to gain, and the media looking elsewhere.
- notdang 5y agoWhy would anyone sue or arrest them? They develop the software, they do not break into the phones of journalists. The article says that the governmental agencies are breaking into the phone. These hacking companies just license their software to these governmental agencies.
- sudosysgen 5y agoTry to sell ransomware programs and sell support contracts and then see what happens. It is illegal to provide assistance in the commitance of a crime even if you're not the one that pulls the trigger.
- rixed 5y agoIf you sell it in accordance to your state regulations, I guess there will be no problem. Isn't that basically the same as selling weapons? (I would appreciate if no worker of the rank would accept to collaborate with manufacturing any form of weapons, but we are well past the point where lay people make their own mind about these things)
- sudosysgen 5y agoIt's not the same as making and selling weapons. The key thing is that you're assisting the client in hitting that particular target. How many states do you know where that's explicitly legal? The only one I know is Russia.
- cutemonster 5y agoMaybe it's more comparable to selling torture equipment (If, say, Saudi Arabia tracks down a journalist because of NSO, then, what might follow thereafter)
- sudosysgen 5y agoRule of law is a joke. If you work for your government and don't anger the politicians you can workout sweetheart deals that will shield you from the law completely, unless you fall out of political favour. But they are breaking the law. Same as many security agencies. It just doesn't matter.
- amelius 5y agoWhat if someone with a hacked phone crosses borders and enters e.g. the US. Would the Israeli spyware company who hacked the phone be liable now?
- sudosysgen 5y agoIn theory it should be, in reality good luck getting any damages or penalties.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago> Does anyone know why no one has sued them or arrested them or something? Facebook is suing NSO Group and winning, at least on procedural grounds [1]. [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-facebook-nso-cyber-idUSKBN28V2WX https://www.reuters.com/article/us-facebook-nso-cyber-idUSKB...