9 ms·

How NSO's Pegasus Is Used to Spy on Journalists

203 points by rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago

stefan_ 5y ago
How have NSO not caught a car bomb yet? They are literally running cyber intelligence ops for foreign governments, many of them certainly not NATO buddies, from the heart of Israel.
- 1cvmask 5y ago
  After all the news and fanfare and Snowden revelations (there was also the Church commission in the 1970s) I really wonder if there are any real terrorists that actually use anything digital anymore. It seems governments are only left to spy on their own citizens, politicians, opposition and public advocates.
  - southerntofu 5y ago
    After all the news of Wikileaks, Black Lives Matter, and Church commission revelations (among many others), I really wonder why the biggest terrorist organizations in the world have not been dismantled: police, intelligence agencies, military... These people definitely use digital stuff, but nobody seems to be able to catch them?! On this thesis, English rapper lowkey: https://youtube.com/watch?v=kmBnvajSfWU https://youtube.com/watch?v=kmBnvajSfWU (to watch with your favorite invidious/piped instance)
    - frickinLasers 5y ago
      Without commenting on your comment...why on earth is that video age-restricted in the US? That's the most chilling thing I've encountered in a long time. Here's an unrestricted version. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb2z0XwMtH8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb2z0XwMtH8
      - southerntofu 5y ago
        Well i can understand why it's strongly not recommended for kids, as it's full of actual images of torture and other good deeds of american/european colonization and neo-colonial wars. But that Youtube prevents you from playing age-gated videos while logged out is a true shame. Thanks for the alternative link! We should upload that to Peertube instead :)
- thr0wwy 5y ago
  Israel is not in the NATO and it's time that we Westerners stop treating it as a Western entity. More than half of the Israeli population are of Mizrahi (Arab) and Sephardi (North African) ancestry. Many of them are post-1948 refugees from other Middle Eastern country. It will be easier to understand Israeli cynicism toward the Arab and Islamic world, which includes selling surveillance software to brutal Arab regimes, if we stop assuming that the country is made of Western Jews.
  - joelbluminator 5y ago
    Well in the same note it would be best to assume Israel is not a liberal democracy then...
    - baybal2 5y ago
      Well, it really, factually isn't for a very obvious reason. It's Western leaders trying their best to make it seem they don't notice it.
      - joelbluminator 5y ago
        You can make the case the occupation is temporary and Israel isn't looking to hold these territories forever; in that case Israel can be viewed as a democracy. But yeah, the settlements weaken that argument. Nevertheless Israel proper is the closest thing to a democracy that region has.
  - bogomipz 5y ago
    >"More than half of the Israeli population are of Mizrahi (Arab) and Sephardi (North African) ancestry." The Sephardi are Jews from the Iberian Peninsula who were expelled in the 15th century by Ferdiand and Isabella in the Alhambra Decree. Sefarad is the Hebrew word for Spain. Mizrahi would include include both Northern Africa and what we today call the Middle East. Mizrahi is also not an Arab disctintion - example Jews from Persia would be Mizrahi as would Jews from Central Asian countries. Mizrahi means Eastern or Oriental in Hebrew.
- jokoon 5y ago
  Governments might consider that journalists can often do more damage to a government than car bombs.
- Despegar 5y ago
  Unless Israel is selling this to Iran, Syria, China, Russia, Cuba or any other Official Enemy of the US, they absolutely aren't rocking the boat in anyway. The other "authoritarian" governments are the good kind, they're pro-US.
- baybal2 5y ago
  > How have NSO not caught a car bomb yet? They are literally running cyber intelligence ops for foreign governments, many of them certainly not NATO buddies, from the heart of Israel. Certainly not NATO buddies? Israel never been a buddy of the West. Kennedy almost went for sanctioning them to death, Norko style. Such episodes were recurring until late seventies. It's been a long running trope that NSO, and multiple other private espionage companies are just cover outlets for Israeli espionage agencies to deny that Israel works with enemies of America.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- keyme 5y ago
  NSO are literally owned by a Europe based private equity firm, and previously owned by a US based one. Their clients (Saudi & UAE) are very much NATO buddies.
  - hkt 5y ago
    In the UK at least, Israel, Saudi Arabia, and UAE are among the countries security cleared personnel have to check with the MoD if they're allowed to visit. Others on the list include China, Cuba, and Russia. Not as buddy as all that.
jaquer_1 5y ago
How would one detect compromised devices?
- _fzslm 5y ago
  no idea if this is still the case for the latest version of pegasus. but in 2019, it was observed that the malware tries to hide its tracks by cleaning DataUsage.sqlite, a database file that stores records of tx/rx on mobile data. but it left an observable inconsistency in doing so, wiping only one of the two pertinent tables. source[0] [0] https://twitter.com/billmarczak/status/1416801514685796352 https://twitter.com/billmarczak/status/1416801514685796352
- dillondoyle 5y ago
  They released this on github. I would love for them to put out a simple tool that allows you to lookup if your number is on the leaked list, they can copy that has my password been pwned technique to make it safe https://github.com/mvt-project/mvt https://github.com/mvt-project/mvt
- mandeepj 5y ago
  > How would one detect compromised devices? monitor the outgoing traffic ?
ece 5y ago
Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27874100 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27874100
ThinkBeat 5y ago
NSO seems to sell some high value and advanced exploits. Has to be better than most of the other commercially available solution. The scary part is that the US and Mossad would never allow then to sell "state of the art". Presumably, the US and Mossad are sitting on much better tools than what NSO sells. Also, presumably Mossad and the US are parts of this. You get a "hostile" country to pay $$$$ to buy some exploits, probably with a great a backdoor and data extraction built in. From an intelligence standpoint its genius. Reminds me of the Swiss CIA outfit selling "unbreakable encryption systems" to various gangs, hostile actors and what not. Allowing CIA access to all the data that was encrypted.

203 points by rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago

How have NSO not caught a car bomb yet? They are literally running cyber intelligence ops for foreign governments, many of them certainly not NATO buddies, from the heart of Israel.

1cvmask 5y ago
After all the news and fanfare and Snowden revelations (there was also the Church commission in the 1970s) I really wonder if there are any real terrorists that actually use anything digital anymore. It seems governments are only left to spy on their own citizens, politicians, opposition and public advocates.
- southerntofu 5y ago
  After all the news of Wikileaks, Black Lives Matter, and Church commission revelations (among many others), I really wonder why the biggest terrorist organizations in the world have not been dismantled: police, intelligence agencies, military... These people definitely use digital stuff, but nobody seems to be able to catch them?! On this thesis, English rapper lowkey: https://youtube.com/watch?v=kmBnvajSfWU https://youtube.com/watch?v=kmBnvajSfWU (to watch with your favorite invidious/piped instance)
  - frickinLasers 5y ago
    Without commenting on your comment...why on earth is that video age-restricted in the US? That's the most chilling thing I've encountered in a long time. Here's an unrestricted version. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb2z0XwMtH8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb2z0XwMtH8
    - southerntofu 5y ago
      Well i can understand why it's strongly not recommended for kids, as it's full of actual images of torture and other good deeds of american/european colonization and neo-colonial wars. But that Youtube prevents you from playing age-gated videos while logged out is a true shame. Thanks for the alternative link! We should upload that to Peertube instead :)
thr0wwy 5y ago
Israel is not in the NATO and it's time that we Westerners stop treating it as a Western entity. More than half of the Israeli population are of Mizrahi (Arab) and Sephardi (North African) ancestry. Many of them are post-1948 refugees from other Middle Eastern country. It will be easier to understand Israeli cynicism toward the Arab and Islamic world, which includes selling surveillance software to brutal Arab regimes, if we stop assuming that the country is made of Western Jews.
- joelbluminator 5y ago
  Well in the same note it would be best to assume Israel is not a liberal democracy then...
  - baybal2 5y ago
    Well, it really, factually isn't for a very obvious reason. It's Western leaders trying their best to make it seem they don't notice it.
    - joelbluminator 5y ago
      You can make the case the occupation is temporary and Israel isn't looking to hold these territories forever; in that case Israel can be viewed as a democracy. But yeah, the settlements weaken that argument. Nevertheless Israel proper is the closest thing to a democracy that region has.
- bogomipz 5y ago
  >"More than half of the Israeli population are of Mizrahi (Arab) and Sephardi (North African) ancestry." The Sephardi are Jews from the Iberian Peninsula who were expelled in the 15th century by Ferdiand and Isabella in the Alhambra Decree. Sefarad is the Hebrew word for Spain. Mizrahi would include include both Northern Africa and what we today call the Middle East. Mizrahi is also not an Arab disctintion - example Jews from Persia would be Mizrahi as would Jews from Central Asian countries. Mizrahi means Eastern or Oriental in Hebrew.
jokoon 5y ago
Governments might consider that journalists can often do more damage to a government than car bombs.
Despegar 5y ago
Unless Israel is selling this to Iran, Syria, China, Russia, Cuba or any other Official Enemy of the US, they absolutely aren't rocking the boat in anyway. The other "authoritarian" governments are the good kind, they're pro-US.
baybal2 5y ago
> How have NSO not caught a car bomb yet? They are literally running cyber intelligence ops for foreign governments, many of them certainly not NATO buddies, from the heart of Israel. Certainly not NATO buddies? Israel never been a buddy of the West. Kennedy almost went for sanctioning them to death, Norko style. Such episodes were recurring until late seventies. It's been a long running trope that NSO, and multiple other private espionage companies are just cover outlets for Israeli espionage agencies to deny that Israel works with enemies of America.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
keyme 5y ago
NSO are literally owned by a Europe based private equity firm, and previously owned by a US based one. Their clients (Saudi & UAE) are very much NATO buddies.
- hkt 5y ago
  In the UK at least, Israel, Saudi Arabia, and UAE are among the countries security cleared personnel have to check with the MoD if they're allowed to visit. Others on the list include China, Cuba, and Russia. Not as buddy as all that.

jaquer_1 5y ago

How would one detect compromised devices?

_fzslm 5y ago
no idea if this is still the case for the latest version of pegasus. but in 2019, it was observed that the malware tries to hide its tracks by cleaning DataUsage.sqlite, a database file that stores records of tx/rx on mobile data. but it left an observable inconsistency in doing so, wiping only one of the two pertinent tables. source[0] [0] https://twitter.com/billmarczak/status/1416801514685796352 https://twitter.com/billmarczak/status/1416801514685796352
dillondoyle 5y ago
They released this on github. I would love for them to put out a simple tool that allows you to lookup if your number is on the leaked list, they can copy that has my password been pwned technique to make it safe https://github.com/mvt-project/mvt https://github.com/mvt-project/mvt
mandeepj 5y ago
> How would one detect compromised devices? monitor the outgoing traffic ?

ece 5y ago

Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27874100 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27874100

ThinkBeat 5y ago

NSO seems to sell some high value and advanced exploits. Has to be better than most of the other commercially available solution. The scary part is that the US and Mossad would never allow then to sell "state of the art". Presumably, the US and Mossad are sitting on much better tools than what NSO sells. Also, presumably Mossad and the US are parts of this. You get a "hostile" country to pay $$$$ to buy some exploits, probably with a great a backdoor and data extraction built in. From an intelligence standpoint its genius. Reminds me of the Swiss CIA outfit selling "unbreakable encryption systems" to various gangs, hostile actors and what not. Allowing CIA access to all the data that was encrypted.