14 ms·

'No One Is Safe': How the Heatwave Has Battered the Wealthy World

ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
One of the issues with anything that makes money, is that it encourages a “race to make a pile.” People want to make as big a pile of money as possible, as quickly as they can, with the idea that the pile will be big enough to allow them (and just them) to be secure for the rest of their (and just their) lives. That attitude runs directly counter to the long-term planning, and sacrifice for the greater good, that is necessary to combat things like this. Some Asian nations, with their focus on Society, may be better equipped to deal with this, than nations that heavily promote individual achievement.
- mschuster91 5y ago
  > People want to make as big a pile of money as possible, as quickly as they can, with the idea that the pile will be big enough to allow them (and just them) to be secure for the rest of their (and just their) lives. In a society as cut-throat capitalist as the US, yes. In "welfare states" such as Europe, where everyone has their basic needs in life (housing, healthcare and food) at least somewhat met, this desire is far less pronounced.
  - mandmandam 5y ago
    You are right, though I don't know if you'll cut through the cognitive dissonance. Still though, even in Ireland, where there is a strong social push-back against the greedy ego mentality, there are still people willing to sell out their environment, country, and grandmothers to get a leg up. These people have done very well for themselves in the last couple decades, and especially well the past few years. To further show how right you are, these people have invested considerable resources (that have paid off well) in messing up the basic needs you mention of housing, healthcare and food - and I would add media to that list. To me, this is the core of neoliberalism, and it is a worldwide plague.
    - valzam 5y ago
      Ireland seems like a poor example considering that they basically turned themselves into a tax haven withing Europe for international corporations. That is the core of their growth and runs exactly counter to the 'act for the greater good's mentality.
      - mandmandam 5y ago
        To be clear, Ireland's government rarely acts for the greater good; moreso, eg. as with tax havens, in the interest of a wealthy few. What I'm talking about is a widespread attitude among 'normal' people, where anyone with a whiff of too much ego about them is nearly ostracized. So much so, that it's almost a crab-bucket mentality, rather than plain down-to-earthness. As an example, the normal American style of telling people what you're good at goes down like a lead balloon in Ireland - saying anything positive about yourself without sandwiching it in layers of self-deprecation is seen as unforgivably gauche. And yet - despite the above - Ireland has no shortage of neolib politicians and moguls, who have rotted our infrastructure from within - such as with tax havens, a very shortsighted and shitty strategy. The have become incredibly wealthy in the process, doubling their wealth or so during the pandemic - and they get away with it because they own the media. It's as if they're invisible, and thus immune to any social pressure.
    - mschuster91 5y ago
      I agree that the rich and powerful in Europe have gone way too rich and powerful for anyone's taste, but still - we aren't even close to the outright dystopian situation in the US.
      - mandmandam 5y ago
        I can agree with you there. It's horrifying how bad the US has gotten wrt inequality, and the knock-on effects are going to be felt for generations no matter what.
  - refurb 5y ago
    Your theory might make sense if it were the people who didn't have their basic needs met who were racing to get rich, but it tends to be the opposite - people who already have their basic needs met that are looking to make even more money.
- tapgnid 5y ago
  To some parts this is a matter of education. It's been studied that few years of economic school makes people more greedy and selfish so I'm tempted to think that it'd also work the other way. And what is the capitalist society for people living in it if not a school of economics. https://www.npr.org/2017/02/21/516375434/does-studying-economics-make-you-selfish?t=1626603346358 https://www.npr.org/2017/02/21/516375434/does-studying-econo...
- nradov 5y ago
  Which Asian nations are you thinking of? Because China is full of people wanting to make as big a pile of money as possible, as quickly as they can.
  - ido 5y ago
    Stereotypically we were often told how Taiwan and Japan weathered early COVID better due to such collectivist attitudes.
  - refurb 5y ago
    As someone whose lived in a few Asian countries, I've seen no lack of this attitude to make money fast. The collectivist mindset is more around top down direction. They'll happily throw trash on the street, but if someone threatens to fine them for doing it, they'll stop and not complain.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
    I'm thinking of Japan and Korea. I don't know enough about other Asian nations to proffer much of a valid opinion, although some (like China) have very powerful governments that can force societal change (if they want). This can be either good, or bad.
- jillesvangurp 5y ago
  It's more a matter of hanging on to what they have in favor of not capitalizing on a major opportunity right in front of their noses. The article phrases the upcoming investments in energy transition, mitigating the effects of climate change, etc. in terms of prevention and damage control. It's politically risky and companies are against it. That accurately describes the last four decades. But does it describe the next four when the proverbial shit is hitting the fan? I think this continuous stream of weather caused disasters, record breaking heat waves, droughts, extremes, etc are slowly getting us ready to make some tough choices. The past year has shown that we can do that in a hurry when we have a pandemic. It's a matter of public opinion and once that shifts, things just happen really quickly and get a dynamic of their own. That change creates opportunities for companies to capitalize on. The changes are massive; therefore the opportunities are massive too. The NYT is right that that will involve a lot of money. They seem miss the notion that there's also a massive return on that investment. In a way capitalism and greed are working better here than politics and activism. The first not so tough choice will be the timing of the complete death of the ICE vehicle industry. Weather it's 2030, 2035, or 2040 doesn't actually matter at this point because it is basically happening already. The consensus seems to be that the phase out of ICE vehicles is now inevitable and most manufacturers are already investing to survive beyond that. That creates a dynamic that basically makes it happen faster. Which seems to have taken a few manufacturers by surprise. Tesla paved the way for this in the last fifteen years. Now others are also having success in the market with EV only products. Sure most of these will happily churn out ICE vehicles as long as they can get away with it but increasingly they are looking towards EVs for growth, good press, profit, etc. Companies merely holding on to what they have without investing will simply be wiped out. To some extent that is already happening as well. The same transition is happening in the energy sector. Wind and solar are basically killing more co2 intensive forms of energy generation like coal and increasingly also gas. There too people are haggling over when the final plants are being shut down. But economics are driving that transition faster than years of activism could. Wind is cheaper, therefore coal plants are disappearing by the double digit GW per year now. These natural disasters that are widely attributed to climate change are just going to make it happen faster. But it was already happening anyway.
nprateem 5y ago
Maybe they'll finally start to do something about it then.
- RandomLensman 5y ago
  With decarbonization already slated to absorb a huge chunk of money it'll need a policy change towards mitigation to get societies ready for changing climates. Addressing current/emerging problems over future problems will be the next policy battleground on climate.
- bluepanda928752 5y ago
  They'll decarbonize the poor
  - nivenkos 5y ago
    Just like we saw with the lockdown policies. Heavily tax mass transit but allow private jets, etc.
    - WalterBright 5y ago
      Mass transit isn't taxed, it's heavily subsidized by taxes.
      - bluepanda928752 5y ago
        Often but not always; Hong Kong is one of the exceptions I think (at least the MTR)
      - bluepanda928752 5y ago
        Also, the parent is probably talking about EU intent to apply carbon tax to mass market airlines but exempt the private jets
        WalterBright 5y ago
typeformer 5y ago
The warm air flowing to the Artic is royally messing with Jet stream and amplifying the energy of Rossby waves. The heat dome, the polar vortex, the floods in Europe are all connected to this phenomenon and connected to global warming. Living in the Pacific Northwest I though things would be “ok” here until 2030, but after this recent heat wave I knew for certain I was absolutely and naively wrong.
vldmrs 5y ago
Could anyone point me to studies/research on how different parts of the world will be affected by climate change ? I would like to know how the place I am currently living at will be different now vs 10-30 years from today.
- js8 5y ago
  The IPCC report is a good start: https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar5/wg2/ https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar5/wg2/ The AR6 version is supposed to come out next year.
  - cagenut 5y ago
    AR5 is great, SR15 is more recent: https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/graphics/ https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/graphics/ I particularly find skipping to the graphics page and looking for maps useful for answering peoples geography related questions. One thing to keep in mind is that report was overall meant to illustrate the difference between a 1.5 and a 2C outcome, but at this point 1.5C is toast and 2C would be an optimistic outcome so you can just skip to the 2C graphs for your estimating purposes.
    - miltondts 5y ago
      Given CO2 emitted today doesn't have an immediate impact, 2C appears impossible at this point: https://www.ecowatch.com/greenhouse-gases-paris-agreement-2649767807.html https://www.ecowatch.com/greenhouse-gases-paris-agreement-26... This is just for the CO2 already in the atmosphere. Add to that at least 10 more years of emissions that continue to grow at an exponential rate. Then another 20 years of decreasing CO2 emissions, and it might be better to look at: https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/what-the-world-will-look-like-4degc-warmer https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/what-the-world-will-look-l....
- canoebuilder 5y ago
  The relentless doom saying gives the impression that there are some studies or research or science out there that can accurately make predictions of the sort you are interested in, but as far as I know that’s not the case. I’m not aware of any system with a track record of predicting climates that far out. A volcano could erupt tomorrow and create much cooler climates around the world. Al Gore’s movie from the early 2000s said Florida would be underwater by now. What’s the actual sea level rise in the intervening period been? A cm or 2, if that?
RONROC 5y ago
https://archive.is/8oiJT https://archive.is/8oiJT

One of the issues with anything that makes money, is that it encourages a “race to make a pile.” People want to make as big a pile of money as possible, as quickly as they can, with the idea that the pile will be big enough to allow them (and just them) to be secure for the rest of their (and just their) lives. That attitude runs directly counter to the long-term planning, and sacrifice for the greater good, that is necessary to combat things like this. Some Asian nations, with their focus on Society, may be better equipped to deal with this, than nations that heavily promote individual achievement.

mschuster91 5y ago
> People want to make as big a pile of money as possible, as quickly as they can, with the idea that the pile will be big enough to allow them (and just them) to be secure for the rest of their (and just their) lives. In a society as cut-throat capitalist as the US, yes. In "welfare states" such as Europe, where everyone has their basic needs in life (housing, healthcare and food) at least somewhat met, this desire is far less pronounced.
- mandmandam 5y ago
  You are right, though I don't know if you'll cut through the cognitive dissonance. Still though, even in Ireland, where there is a strong social push-back against the greedy ego mentality, there are still people willing to sell out their environment, country, and grandmothers to get a leg up. These people have done very well for themselves in the last couple decades, and especially well the past few years. To further show how right you are, these people have invested considerable resources (that have paid off well) in messing up the basic needs you mention of housing, healthcare and food - and I would add media to that list. To me, this is the core of neoliberalism, and it is a worldwide plague.
  - valzam 5y ago
    Ireland seems like a poor example considering that they basically turned themselves into a tax haven withing Europe for international corporations. That is the core of their growth and runs exactly counter to the 'act for the greater good's mentality.
    - mandmandam 5y ago
      To be clear, Ireland's government rarely acts for the greater good; moreso, eg. as with tax havens, in the interest of a wealthy few. What I'm talking about is a widespread attitude among 'normal' people, where anyone with a whiff of too much ego about them is nearly ostracized. So much so, that it's almost a crab-bucket mentality, rather than plain down-to-earthness. As an example, the normal American style of telling people what you're good at goes down like a lead balloon in Ireland - saying anything positive about yourself without sandwiching it in layers of self-deprecation is seen as unforgivably gauche. And yet - despite the above - Ireland has no shortage of neolib politicians and moguls, who have rotted our infrastructure from within - such as with tax havens, a very shortsighted and shitty strategy. The have become incredibly wealthy in the process, doubling their wealth or so during the pandemic - and they get away with it because they own the media. It's as if they're invisible, and thus immune to any social pressure.
  - mschuster91 5y ago
    I agree that the rich and powerful in Europe have gone way too rich and powerful for anyone's taste, but still - we aren't even close to the outright dystopian situation in the US.
    - mandmandam 5y ago
      I can agree with you there. It's horrifying how bad the US has gotten wrt inequality, and the knock-on effects are going to be felt for generations no matter what.
- refurb 5y ago
  Your theory might make sense if it were the people who didn't have their basic needs met who were racing to get rich, but it tends to be the opposite - people who already have their basic needs met that are looking to make even more money.
tapgnid 5y ago
To some parts this is a matter of education. It's been studied that few years of economic school makes people more greedy and selfish so I'm tempted to think that it'd also work the other way. And what is the capitalist society for people living in it if not a school of economics. https://www.npr.org/2017/02/21/516375434/does-studying-economics-make-you-selfish?t=1626603346358 https://www.npr.org/2017/02/21/516375434/does-studying-econo...
nradov 5y ago
Which Asian nations are you thinking of? Because China is full of people wanting to make as big a pile of money as possible, as quickly as they can.
- ido 5y ago
  Stereotypically we were often told how Taiwan and Japan weathered early COVID better due to such collectivist attitudes.
- refurb 5y ago
  As someone whose lived in a few Asian countries, I've seen no lack of this attitude to make money fast. The collectivist mindset is more around top down direction. They'll happily throw trash on the street, but if someone threatens to fine them for doing it, they'll stop and not complain.
- ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
  I'm thinking of Japan and Korea. I don't know enough about other Asian nations to proffer much of a valid opinion, although some (like China) have very powerful governments that can force societal change (if they want). This can be either good, or bad.
jillesvangurp 5y ago
It's more a matter of hanging on to what they have in favor of not capitalizing on a major opportunity right in front of their noses. The article phrases the upcoming investments in energy transition, mitigating the effects of climate change, etc. in terms of prevention and damage control. It's politically risky and companies are against it. That accurately describes the last four decades. But does it describe the next four when the proverbial shit is hitting the fan? I think this continuous stream of weather caused disasters, record breaking heat waves, droughts, extremes, etc are slowly getting us ready to make some tough choices. The past year has shown that we can do that in a hurry when we have a pandemic. It's a matter of public opinion and once that shifts, things just happen really quickly and get a dynamic of their own. That change creates opportunities for companies to capitalize on. The changes are massive; therefore the opportunities are massive too. The NYT is right that that will involve a lot of money. They seem miss the notion that there's also a massive return on that investment. In a way capitalism and greed are working better here than politics and activism. The first not so tough choice will be the timing of the complete death of the ICE vehicle industry. Weather it's 2030, 2035, or 2040 doesn't actually matter at this point because it is basically happening already. The consensus seems to be that the phase out of ICE vehicles is now inevitable and most manufacturers are already investing to survive beyond that. That creates a dynamic that basically makes it happen faster. Which seems to have taken a few manufacturers by surprise. Tesla paved the way for this in the last fifteen years. Now others are also having success in the market with EV only products. Sure most of these will happily churn out ICE vehicles as long as they can get away with it but increasingly they are looking towards EVs for growth, good press, profit, etc. Companies merely holding on to what they have without investing will simply be wiped out. To some extent that is already happening as well. The same transition is happening in the energy sector. Wind and solar are basically killing more co2 intensive forms of energy generation like coal and increasingly also gas. There too people are haggling over when the final plants are being shut down. But economics are driving that transition faster than years of activism could. Wind is cheaper, therefore coal plants are disappearing by the double digit GW per year now. These natural disasters that are widely attributed to climate change are just going to make it happen faster. But it was already happening anyway.

nprateem 5y ago

Maybe they'll finally start to do something about it then.

RandomLensman 5y ago
With decarbonization already slated to absorb a huge chunk of money it'll need a policy change towards mitigation to get societies ready for changing climates. Addressing current/emerging problems over future problems will be the next policy battleground on climate.
bluepanda928752 5y ago
They'll decarbonize the poor
- nivenkos 5y ago
  Just like we saw with the lockdown policies. Heavily tax mass transit but allow private jets, etc.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    Mass transit isn't taxed, it's heavily subsidized by taxes.
    - bluepanda928752 5y ago
      Often but not always; Hong Kong is one of the exceptions I think (at least the MTR)
    - bluepanda928752 5y ago
      Also, the parent is probably talking about EU intent to apply carbon tax to mass market airlines but exempt the private jets
      - WalterBright 5y ago

typeformer 5y ago

The warm air flowing to the Artic is royally messing with Jet stream and amplifying the energy of Rossby waves. The heat dome, the polar vortex, the floods in Europe are all connected to this phenomenon and connected to global warming. Living in the Pacific Northwest I though things would be “ok” here until 2030, but after this recent heat wave I knew for certain I was absolutely and naively wrong.

vldmrs 5y ago

Could anyone point me to studies/research on how different parts of the world will be affected by climate change ? I would like to know how the place I am currently living at will be different now vs 10-30 years from today.

js8 5y ago
The IPCC report is a good start: https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar5/wg2/ https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar5/wg2/ The AR6 version is supposed to come out next year.
- cagenut 5y ago
  AR5 is great, SR15 is more recent: https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/graphics/ https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/graphics/ I particularly find skipping to the graphics page and looking for maps useful for answering peoples geography related questions. One thing to keep in mind is that report was overall meant to illustrate the difference between a 1.5 and a 2C outcome, but at this point 1.5C is toast and 2C would be an optimistic outcome so you can just skip to the 2C graphs for your estimating purposes.
  - miltondts 5y ago
    Given CO2 emitted today doesn't have an immediate impact, 2C appears impossible at this point: https://www.ecowatch.com/greenhouse-gases-paris-agreement-2649767807.html https://www.ecowatch.com/greenhouse-gases-paris-agreement-26... This is just for the CO2 already in the atmosphere. Add to that at least 10 more years of emissions that continue to grow at an exponential rate. Then another 20 years of decreasing CO2 emissions, and it might be better to look at: https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/what-the-world-will-look-like-4degc-warmer https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/what-the-world-will-look-l....
canoebuilder 5y ago
The relentless doom saying gives the impression that there are some studies or research or science out there that can accurately make predictions of the sort you are interested in, but as far as I know that’s not the case. I’m not aware of any system with a track record of predicting climates that far out. A volcano could erupt tomorrow and create much cooler climates around the world. Al Gore’s movie from the early 2000s said Florida would be underwater by now. What’s the actual sea level rise in the intervening period been? A cm or 2, if that?

RONROC 5y ago

https://archive.is/8oiJT https://archive.is/8oiJT