5 ms·

Majority of Covid misinformation came from 12 people

25 points by lentil_soup 5y ago

ggm 5y ago
This reminds me of "visa and Mastercard know who is committing fraud" in absolute terms the number of entities which need to act here to change things is small, but like visa and Mastercard the likelihood of the 12 people being brought into line is low.
yosito 5y ago
If these 12 people are known, it seems that, aside from deleting their social media accounts (which may backfire), we could also focus persuasion efforts on these 12 individuals. It would be extremely powerful for these people to begin sharing how they changed their minds and came to see the truth that vaccines are good and saving lives. Imagine how many of their followers would also change their minds.
- p49k 5y ago
  The article doesn't go into this in too much depth, but one of the main reasons many of these people are antivax is because it has given them a level of fame (and a source of revenue) that they've never achieved with anything else in their lifetime. With RFK Jr, he gets so much more attention/followers/likes/money from antivax activism than he ever received as a legitimate environmental activist/lawyer, and he seems to have clearly taken the path of doing what gives him the most validation. I seriously doubt reasoning with any of these people is going to cause them to change their mind. It's about validation/ego and money.
  - howaboutnope 5y ago
    The proper way to find out is to try, not to speculate or even assume it's impossible, which is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
    - p49k 5y ago
      People are and have been actively trying to engage with these people for years now.
      - howaboutnope 5y ago
        "these people"? "years"? Do it or don't, but don't try to dissuade other people from doing it is all I'm asking. Is that too much to ask?
        krapp 5y ago
        If you or anyone else wants to waste their time trying to deprogram fanatics on the internet, go right ahead. But it's a fool's errand. Others have been trying to do that for -yes- years, because anti-vaxx conspiracy theories have been around for a long time. Many people believe that "sunlight is the best disinfectant," and that if you simply approach these people with politeness, empathy and well sourced logic, they will eventually come around. Feel free to try to engage the anti-vaxx community in as many vigorous, Lincoln-Douglas style debates as you like. Just don't say you weren't warned.
  - Leparamour 5y ago
    This has been my observation as well. The danger is in increasing the extremist rhetoric in an attempt to outdo competing anti-establishment "gurus"/anti-vax influencers in their fight to attract and retain paying followers.
    - ostenning 5y ago
      To the point where people think there are Nuremberg conventions being broken and a mass depopulation plan being executed by global elites. It’s extreme, it’s dangerous and it’s indoctrinating.
      - notheretoo 5y ago
        Very good point. Because there are some saying things that you think are clearly misguided we must limit all misinformation based on what you think is right. Can you believe how racist it was to think it came from a lab!? We should revoke internet privledges of anyone sharing such racist hateful bigoted information.
- Leparamour 5y ago
  I don't know if your comment is serious or not but conspiracy theorists don't work like that. If any influencer publically changed their mind they would only be disavowed as a turncoat or thought to be under duress from TPTB.
- jollybean 5y ago
  People make radical, counter narrative claims because it makes them famous. The MSM are guilty of this a bit, while generally credible, they do 'juice things up' a bit in order to get viewership. There are fools everywhere who will believe something crazy, and there are egomaniacs who will knowingly lie (and believe the lies themselves) because it makes them 'important'.
joelbondurant 5y ago
I prefer coronavirus to communist tyrants.
guilhas 5y ago
Good to know there is still people with courage to question the business, abuse of power, scam surrounding coronavirus "2 million, in the USA, will die by summer 2020 even with lockdowns", "The science is settled", "trust the science", censor everyone contradicting mainstream narrative. What a debacle. And the backtrack on the virus origin is just the tip of the iceberg of the incompetent experts
- throwaway210222 5y ago
  > Good to know there is still people with courage to question the business, abuse of power, scam surrounding|coronavirus Equally good to know there are only twelve genuine idiots.
  - guilhas 5y ago
    There are millions who distrust the mainstream narrative, only a few reputable public figures that dare to do the same For idiots just turn on the TV and you'll find them by the thousands
- mjreacher 5y ago
  >2 million, in the USA, will die by summer 2020 even with lockdowns Which scientific paper/organisation even made this claim?
  - guilhas 5y ago
    Neil Ferguson, Imperial College London, "study", this and others were used to advise govs and WHO to classify as coronavirus as a pandemic He predicted this wrongly, and previous "pandemics"/outbreaks too And he is still advising the UK government
    - mjreacher 5y ago
      Hmmm, looking around for a bit I assume you are talking about this study here https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/s... which notes the 2.2 million as a worst case scenario where nothing is done to stop the pandemic, which is obviously not what happened. Although I would agree that the government should be taking into account his previous forecasting when determining the accuracy and significance of his model.
lawnchair_larry 5y ago
Governments pressuring private companies and keeping lists of people they want censored and deplatformed based on what they say should offend everyone. That is fundamentally anti-free speech. It doesn’t matter what it’s about. Preserving this is worth more than silencing these 12 people.
sennight 5y ago
Unsurprisingly the CCDH pdf, the source of this story, doesn't bother getting into what "misinformation" is. From what I can tell, it is a social network analysis of people who aren't onboard with the current popular opinion. "Digital spaces have been colonised and their unique dynamics exploited by fringe movements that instrumentalise hate and misinformation." Wew lad, they immediate activate the authoritarian left bat-signal. I was watching Covid developments in China back when in was the "Wu-flu", months before it hit public consciousness in the US. What really grabbed my interest was the messaging China put out, attributing the whole thing to somebody eating bat soup from a wet market. Knowing how sensitive they are about that sort of thing (rhino horn ED medicine, shark fin luxury meals, etc), and knowing that the best way to lie is through a distracting embarrassing admission, I knew something weird was going on. The speed with which "experts" and public figures have contradicted their own prior positions is absolutely amazing. The list is long, but the memorable highlights include masks, travel restrictions, genetic engineering and fish tank cleaner. I can already hear an apologist exclaiming "Bbut the situation is fluid!" Exactly, maybe stop trying to censor people you disagree with - you've got a horrible track record. This is why trust in government and media is so low, they've absolutely wrecked their own credibility - and it makes me wonder if that is the real motivation behind this recent push for wide sweeping information lockdown. It would certainly be easier to reduce the number of alternative information sources than it would be to actually do the right thing and rebuild a self-sabotaged reputation.
- Jeema101 5y ago
  >Unsurprisingly the CCDH pdf, the source of this story, doesn't bother getting into what "misinformation" is. The PDF lists examples of misinformation starting on page 12 for each of the dozen people they identified.
  - sennight 5y ago
    lol, not very comprehensive is it - after all the scary hard figures provided in the executive summary... screencaps. It reminds me of the good old Internet blood sport days when unemployed Germans would creep on youtubers for months, collecting screenshots and monitoring chatrooms, all to go into a deplatforming/job-termination/life-ruination proposal.

25 points by lentil_soup 5y ago

ggm 5y ago

This reminds me of "visa and Mastercard know who is committing fraud" in absolute terms the number of entities which need to act here to change things is small, but like visa and Mastercard the likelihood of the 12 people being brought into line is low.

yosito 5y ago

If these 12 people are known, it seems that, aside from deleting their social media accounts (which may backfire), we could also focus persuasion efforts on these 12 individuals. It would be extremely powerful for these people to begin sharing how they changed their minds and came to see the truth that vaccines are good and saving lives. Imagine how many of their followers would also change their minds.

p49k 5y ago
The article doesn't go into this in too much depth, but one of the main reasons many of these people are antivax is because it has given them a level of fame (and a source of revenue) that they've never achieved with anything else in their lifetime. With RFK Jr, he gets so much more attention/followers/likes/money from antivax activism than he ever received as a legitimate environmental activist/lawyer, and he seems to have clearly taken the path of doing what gives him the most validation. I seriously doubt reasoning with any of these people is going to cause them to change their mind. It's about validation/ego and money.
- howaboutnope 5y ago
  The proper way to find out is to try, not to speculate or even assume it's impossible, which is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
  - p49k 5y ago
    People are and have been actively trying to engage with these people for years now.
    - howaboutnope 5y ago
      "these people"? "years"? Do it or don't, but don't try to dissuade other people from doing it is all I'm asking. Is that too much to ask?
      - krapp 5y ago
        If you or anyone else wants to waste their time trying to deprogram fanatics on the internet, go right ahead. But it's a fool's errand. Others have been trying to do that for -yes- years, because anti-vaxx conspiracy theories have been around for a long time. Many people believe that "sunlight is the best disinfectant," and that if you simply approach these people with politeness, empathy and well sourced logic, they will eventually come around. Feel free to try to engage the anti-vaxx community in as many vigorous, Lincoln-Douglas style debates as you like. Just don't say you weren't warned.
- Leparamour 5y ago
  This has been my observation as well. The danger is in increasing the extremist rhetoric in an attempt to outdo competing anti-establishment "gurus"/anti-vax influencers in their fight to attract and retain paying followers.
  - ostenning 5y ago
    To the point where people think there are Nuremberg conventions being broken and a mass depopulation plan being executed by global elites. It’s extreme, it’s dangerous and it’s indoctrinating.
    - notheretoo 5y ago
      Very good point. Because there are some saying things that you think are clearly misguided we must limit all misinformation based on what you think is right. Can you believe how racist it was to think it came from a lab!? We should revoke internet privledges of anyone sharing such racist hateful bigoted information.
Leparamour 5y ago
I don't know if your comment is serious or not but conspiracy theorists don't work like that. If any influencer publically changed their mind they would only be disavowed as a turncoat or thought to be under duress from TPTB.
jollybean 5y ago
People make radical, counter narrative claims because it makes them famous. The MSM are guilty of this a bit, while generally credible, they do 'juice things up' a bit in order to get viewership. There are fools everywhere who will believe something crazy, and there are egomaniacs who will knowingly lie (and believe the lies themselves) because it makes them 'important'.

joelbondurant 5y ago

I prefer coronavirus to communist tyrants.

guilhas 5y ago

Good to know there is still people with courage to question the business, abuse of power, scam surrounding coronavirus "2 million, in the USA, will die by summer 2020 even with lockdowns", "The science is settled", "trust the science", censor everyone contradicting mainstream narrative. What a debacle. And the backtrack on the virus origin is just the tip of the iceberg of the incompetent experts

throwaway210222 5y ago
> Good to know there is still people with courage to question the business, abuse of power, scam surrounding|coronavirus Equally good to know there are only twelve genuine idiots.
- guilhas 5y ago
  There are millions who distrust the mainstream narrative, only a few reputable public figures that dare to do the same For idiots just turn on the TV and you'll find them by the thousands
mjreacher 5y ago
>2 million, in the USA, will die by summer 2020 even with lockdowns Which scientific paper/organisation even made this claim?
- guilhas 5y ago
  Neil Ferguson, Imperial College London, "study", this and others were used to advise govs and WHO to classify as coronavirus as a pandemic He predicted this wrongly, and previous "pandemics"/outbreaks too And he is still advising the UK government
  - mjreacher 5y ago
    Hmmm, looking around for a bit I assume you are talking about this study here https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/s... which notes the 2.2 million as a worst case scenario where nothing is done to stop the pandemic, which is obviously not what happened. Although I would agree that the government should be taking into account his previous forecasting when determining the accuracy and significance of his model.

lawnchair_larry 5y ago

Governments pressuring private companies and keeping lists of people they want censored and deplatformed based on what they say should offend everyone. That is fundamentally anti-free speech. It doesn’t matter what it’s about. Preserving this is worth more than silencing these 12 people.

sennight 5y ago

Unsurprisingly the CCDH pdf, the source of this story, doesn't bother getting into what "misinformation" is. From what I can tell, it is a social network analysis of people who aren't onboard with the current popular opinion. "Digital spaces have been colonised and their unique dynamics exploited by fringe movements that instrumentalise hate and misinformation." Wew lad, they immediate activate the authoritarian left bat-signal. I was watching Covid developments in China back when in was the "Wu-flu", months before it hit public consciousness in the US. What really grabbed my interest was the messaging China put out, attributing the whole thing to somebody eating bat soup from a wet market. Knowing how sensitive they are about that sort of thing (rhino horn ED medicine, shark fin luxury meals, etc), and knowing that the best way to lie is through a distracting embarrassing admission, I knew something weird was going on. The speed with which "experts" and public figures have contradicted their own prior positions is absolutely amazing. The list is long, but the memorable highlights include masks, travel restrictions, genetic engineering and fish tank cleaner. I can already hear an apologist exclaiming "Bbut the situation is fluid!" Exactly, maybe stop trying to censor people you disagree with - you've got a horrible track record. This is why trust in government and media is so low, they've absolutely wrecked their own credibility - and it makes me wonder if that is the real motivation behind this recent push for wide sweeping information lockdown. It would certainly be easier to reduce the number of alternative information sources than it would be to actually do the right thing and rebuild a self-sabotaged reputation.

Jeema101 5y ago
>Unsurprisingly the CCDH pdf, the source of this story, doesn't bother getting into what "misinformation" is. The PDF lists examples of misinformation starting on page 12 for each of the dozen people they identified.
- sennight 5y ago
  lol, not very comprehensive is it - after all the scary hard figures provided in the executive summary... screencaps. It reminds me of the good old Internet blood sport days when unemployed Germans would creep on youtubers for months, collecting screenshots and monitoring chatrooms, all to go into a deplatforming/job-termination/life-ruination proposal.