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Tesla launches its Full Self-Driving subscription package for $199 per month
- yellow_lead 5y agoPay $200/mo for some software to endanger your life with no liability towards it's creator. Must be the worst deal of the century.
- yellow_lead 5y agoI'm not sure I would accept $200/mo. to drive this thing on the highway or roads with speed limits above ~30mph.
- toomuchtodo 5y agoConversely, we’ve bought several Teslas and have covered tens of thousands of miles on Autopilot, usually at 70mph (sometimes faster if the speed limit allows for it [Texas]). No issues.
- hn_throwaway_99 5y agoIn fairness, survivorship bias would apply to your anecdote - quite literally.
- toomuchtodo 5y agoThere are over a million Teslas on the road (and close to that amount being sold annually at current run rate) and only 7 Autopilot related deaths. Regulation and oversight is important (crucial even considering life safety), but the naysayers are crying that the sky is falling based on the statistics. Ignore my anecdote, the data speaks for itself. GM ignition switch deficiencies GM covered up killed orders of magnitude more people (124). https://www.tesladeaths.com/ https://www.tesladeaths.com/
- Aeronwen 5y agoGM recalled almost 30 million cars with those ignition switches. You're 1.5x more likely to die using Autopilot than one of them.
- toomuchtodo 5y agoI still like those odds! As the saying goes, “I’d rather be dead in California than alive in Arizona.” I’ll take my chances in a Tesla over a legacy automaker.
- yellow_lead 5y agoMore power to you but how do you feel about endangering others around you?
- toomuchtodo 5y agoI believe the risk is reasonable compared to your average human being. Software doesn’t get tired or distracted, and I would not use Tesla self driving features if it would put others at an unreasonable level of risk.
- sifar 5y ago>> Software doesn’t get tired or distracted It just has a lot of corner cases, untested even. This blind trust in SW and by extension, technology, is really exasperating. Really curious, how would you quantify the reasonabl risk ? Should the risk be based on number of fatalities or on the number of potential fatalities that were averted ? The data that you point to is about fatal crashes that made the news. What about all the cases that the SW malfunctioned and had a potential to be fatal ? Only tesla has that data or perhaps even they may not.
- reureu 5y agoBought a Tesla last year and have driven it on two 4k mile road trips, often on autopilot for large portions of rural America. I've had multiple incidents of autopilot doing crazy things, particularly in areas where (I assume) not as many Tesla drivers go (Wyoming, Dakotas). My car abruptly tried to drive itself off the road, pushed me towards construction cones and concrete barrier, have come very close to weaving semis, phantom braking, etc. 99% of the time it's great, and road trips on autopilot are so much more relaxing than in my previous ICE car. But that 1% is eventually gonna kill me via car crash or via heart attack.
- toomuchtodo 5y agoI do not recommend using driver assistance features you do not feel comfortable and confident in supervising. I appreciate the data point regardless. I have not experienced these issues out West or the Southwest US.
- jmpman 5y agoI took my Tesla on a road trip from AZ to the Texas panhandle recently. On the 2000 mile trip, autopilot disengaged four times. Once during sunrise on a curvy section of highway with very distinct shadows. Once during sunset, driving into the sun. Twice more when close to semis. Had I not been paying attention, each could have resulted in an accident. I really only feel comfortable on autopilot during rush hour bumper to bumper traffic. Only when Tesla can be sued by my insurance company if the car gets into a crash while on self-driving, will I trust that the appropriate due diligence was applied.
- plebianRube 5y agoThat 99% goes down using it in northen winter climate, or rural areas.
- effingwewt 5y agoUber Eats just started allowing for alcohol delivery. In the opt-in, Uber indemnifies itself while notifying you that you are responsible for age verification, whether the ID is legit, whether the person is 'too intoxicated to serve' etc and you can be criminally liable for any- and everything. Un. Fucking. Believable. As long as companies can use legalese to indemnify themselves this shit will continue ad infinitum.
- fuzxi 5y agoRidiculous of them. How could that possibly fly without requiring that drivers have liquor licenses? Either they're individually culpable and need licenses or it's not their responsibility, no?
- senectus1 5y agoI suspect that wouldn't be allowed in Australia.
- voakbasda 5y agoLike many things from companies this size, clear legality has little bearing on their plans. Uber’s business model has been to cheat the system since day one, sidestepping the established laws covering commercial taxi and transportation services. They had enough time to establish their turf and revenues to fund their needed war chest, when they finally got sued by assorted municipality and governments. Then they drag things through the courts for as long as they can, lengthening their runway. I would bet they are planning a similar strategy here. They likely have already done the math to show that it will be profitable any which way the wind blows. At their scale of capitalization, legality is either entirely irrelevant or can be bought as a minor cost of doing business.
- hn_throwaway_99 5y agoDuring the pandemic last year another delivery service (I don't think it was Uber Eats, I want to say it was Favor, not sure) made the same requirements of the driver, except it was for contactless delivery. Somehow the driver was supposed to know if the person in the house matched the ID, and was not too intoxicated, without ever seeing them. It was the pinnacle of absurdity.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- lamontcg 5y agoAnd its $200/mo for the privilege of feeding them the data they want.
- okareaman 5y agoI have an honest question. Why do people want self-driving? To read a book, take a nap, or watch a movie? I like to drive. It keeps my body occupied while I think, day dream or meditate. Driving is pleasurable for me. In fact, letting the car drive itself would be stressful, because I'd feel compelled to monitor it's performance. It would take me out of the moment. Zen Driving - Be a Buddha behind the wheel of your automobile https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/2089307 https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/2089307
- adriancr 5y agoIt's useful on long drives where you get tired and not as alert as usual. Also useful for traffic jams, nothing pleasurable being stuck in traffic and moving once in a while.
- okareaman 5y agoI've been debugging software my entire adult life. I guess I'm an outlier in not trusting the self-driving software. I couldn't relax and let it drive without paying close attention.
- aplummer 5y agoI can drive for hours with the Volvo lane keeping on. It’s not that I’m not paying attention; but not doing the little micro adjustments to speed and lane keeping actually leaves me much more refreshed at the end of the drive.
- tluyben2 5y agoYep, drove (my wife did the driving) 2000km a few days ago with almost only highways. That used to be tiring; now with lane and traffic assistance it is much less tiring. On the highway you basically have to do nothing.
- tluyben2 5y agoSame here, but I trust humans, including myself, even less...
- ukoki 5y ago$549/mo lease on a Tesla model 3 + $199/mo for FSD could surely buy a lot of Uber/Lyft rides -- with the added benefit that you could drive drunk and don't need a parking space.
- relyks 5y agoIf the car is fully self-driving though, you won't need a parking space. The car will drive itself back home and you'll request the car to come back when you want to be picked up lol
- sen 5y agoAnd when the cars CAN drive themselves home, maybe it’ll be worth it. But right now you’re paying $200/mth for a slightly-better cruise control.
- fuzxi 5y agoEhh, is it worth doubling the fuel use + wear and tear?
- Crosseye_Jack 5y agoI live 20-30 mins from the nearest large city. If the car was waiting for me to summon it at the parking space I own it would take that long for me to get my ride home at the end of the night. Sure I could summon it earlier but who micro manages their time like that? Parking it closed so I have a lower waiting time means parking it in a spot I do not own which usually requires compensation to the person who does. The closer you live to the city the cost of land increases, so for those living real close to the city having a parking space they own or even have the right to use is not always a given. And even if you do, the space often increases the cost of the home which is a cost you can recoup if giving up the car. The car needs to be “somewhere” when it’s not in use by you. Elons plan is that is once the car is fully autonomous it can be out earning you money as an auto taxi (doubt that would be a thing where I live, at least not right away, the only way Uber is allowed to operate here is by only allowing drivers who are already licensed taxi drivers). So it will always be a time - cost trade off. The closer the car is parked near you, the less time you will have to wait for it to be summoned, however the closer the car is parked to you the more it will cost you in parking charges. If you are pimping out your own car as an auto taxi you might be making money while your having fun with friends but you might have to wait an hour for your own car if it just started giving some a ride home, they don’t want to pool even though they live just half a mile from your home.
- sMarsIntruder 5y agoPaying a subscription on a high-end car for something that is unfortunately not so "full self-driving". Yeah, why not.
- tluyben2 5y agoWhy are they allowed to call it that even though it is not ready for the Full part? Is that not false advertising?
- coolspot 5y agoComplete Cure for any Cancer(tm) * * The statement isn’t approved by FDA. Therapeutic effect isn’t differnt from placebo in clinical trials. By reading this you forfeit any right to sue us.
- rchaud 5y agoI'd expect to see that on an Instagram ad for a fly by night supplement company. But from a publicly traded company that presumably have lawyers on retainer to look these things over?
- atatatat 5y agoThey keep their lawyers ready for the lawsuits, no time for the meaningful check and balance bullshit.
- djanogo 5y agoIt's worse, Tesla's claims endangers others on the road.
- relyks 5y agoYes, it's strange considering they already settled a previous lawsuit over misrepresenting the safety of the self-driving capabilities of their cars... There has been talk of potentially forming another class-action lawsuit to deal with Tesla's false advertising over autonomous driving. The whole area doesn't have many federal regulations yet. That's also part of the issue
- roenxi 5y agoI'm a fair way from the vocal HN crowd on this one. I can't see the problem with Tesla calling what they have "Full" self driving. I don't know who keeps the official definition, but I don't care what they think and vice versa. This looks like full self driving to me. You lot are very demanding. I'm not sure the public will care that much.
- croes 5y ago>It currently includes several automated driver-assist features: >Navigate on Autopilot >Auto Lane Change >Autopark >Summon >Full Self-Driving Computer >Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control >But ultimately, Tesla hopes to deliver a true level 5 full self-driving system and people buying the package are betting on Tesla achieving that goal. So what exactly is the Full Self-Driving Computer assist, if it's not full self-driving?
- shawabawa3 5y ago> So what exactly is the Full Self-Driving Computer assist, if it's not full self-driving? It's a computer that Tesla believes is powerful enough to be able to run full self driving software if and when they create it (based on nothing of course)
- londons_explore 5y agoI bet right now they're working on the next full self driving computer with even more compute power, trying to figure out how to avoid being forced to upgrade all cars in the field with it... More compute just makes all problems easier, and when trying to solve a hard problem like self driving, being compute restrained at the same time just makes things harder.
- croes 5y agoSo now I have to pay a monthly fee for already built in hardware?
- nathanaldensr 5y agoSome people like to pay for promises. It generates data their egos can point to and say, "Because I paid, it must've been worth it!"
- maayank 5y agoI think it’s like Lionel Hutz from the Simpsons… Works on contingency? No, money down!
- dmos62 5y agoWhat happens if you get into a traffic accident while in autopilot, in terms of insurance and blame in general? Suppose the AI scratches another car. Normally, as in driving manually, your insurance would bump your costs up, because they're readjusting how likely you're to make another accident, but this is the car driving.
- LeoPanthera 5y agoRight now I think the answer is simple but boring - you're responsible for what the car does, even on autopilot. The car does go out of it's way to ensure you're paying attention, it requires you to hold the wheel and, in new models, watches you to make sure you're actually paying attention. I know Elon is the antichrist on HN so it's tempting to blame him for everything, but personal responsibility still exists. It's your car, you should know how to operate it safely.
- danuker 5y agoFor as long as it's my responsibility not to kill people while driving, I will refuse cars that drive for me, that don't let me see and change the software on them.
- greypowerOz 5y agoi respect your view. But IMHO for low speed home-to-office commutes there is a market for 100% autonomous cars that can free a person up for productivity tasks or other activity rather than have to drive the same route over and over. OR say the trip to the supermarket past school zones. Maybe not in my driving lifetime (I'm an old fart) , sure :)
- rchaud 5y agoWhat's 'low speed'? I don't think I've met anyone whose commute didn't involve driving on the freeway. You could take inside streets, but that's a longer drive.
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- tibbydudeza 5y ago$199 for a perpetual beta that might kill you without reading the small print - seems like good deal.
- djanogo 5y agoor kill others on the road. Tesla drivers killing themselves should be LOT less of a concern than killing/hurting others.
- HWR_14 5y agoTesla drivers are quick to say how safe the Tesla is for the driver/passenger. They don't particularly feel the responsibility of moving tons of metal at high speed for possibly hurting others.
- fxtentacle 5y ago"Full Self-Driving capability is now available" [..] "and do not make the vehicle autonomous." We truly live in a world where facts are vastly inferior to marketing. Highway cruise control, lane changing, traffic light stop and assisted parking has been around long enough that you can get it in a $5k used car already. I'm surprised that they don't have a speed limit and sign detection, because that, too, has been around for a long time. So in effect, this is a "get feature parity with a cheap used car" upgrade. But nobody cares and the stock price rises anyway. In a way, Donald Trump, Elon Musk, and Steve Jobs are quite similar. They perfected the reality distortion field and at least some people absolutely love them for it.
- LeoPanthera 5y ago> Highway cruise control, lane changing, traffic light stop and assisted parking has been around long enough that you can get it in a $5k used car already. Citation needed please because I believe this is false, particularly in terms of lane changing and traffic light stop.
- fxtentacle 5y agoBMW 318 built after 2012, for example. It used to be fancy and expensive car but now 9 years later you can buy them in used for a good price.
- stryker7001 5y agothe people who are buying tesla's don't want a 9 year old car. You took some long farfetched comparison about 'feature parity, (oh except for these 2 big things) and then created a false argument. sometimes I wonder what people are thinking.
- Corrado 5y agoI'm pretty excited about this subscription service. I don't have an extra $10k laying about to use for something like this but I would like to see how it works. I probably won't subscribe to it each and every month, but if I'm planning a long trip, or I have some Birthday money I can spend, sure, why not? I think everyone here is concentrating on the "full self driving" nomenclature and completely missing some really great (and fun) features. My Mom's neighbor just built a fence next to her driveway; "Autopark" and "Summon" are two things that might really help her out in daily driving. "Auto lane change" is something that I would probably use on a daily basis and it beats having to disengage/reengage cruise control just to change lanes. Finally, "Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control" looks pretty neat. Currently, my car recognizes those things but doesn't react to them; I'd like to change that. As a "bonus", this feature causes the car to alert you if your sitting at a green light without moving. Neat! Sure, it's not "fall asleep at the wheel while the car drives you home" but I don't really care; I'm not looking for that. What I am looking for is a smart car that might help in my everyday life; keeping me from wandering into another lane, pulling the car out of a tight space, coming to get me when it's raining, parallel parking, etc.
- drcongo 5y agoGood grief, you _pay_ them for it to drive into concrete posts for you?
- nathanaldensr 5y agoThe power of personality, marketing, and propaganda can do that to people. Really.
- BlissWaves 5y agoFull Self-Driving, that's an outright lie. They are not even remotely close to full self-driving let alone to charge money for it today.
- boublepop 5y agoI’m guessing this is due to some executive bonus construction that only pays out if they have full self driving launched. Because why else would they push the PR when they don’t yet have actual self driving working?
- bigtex 5y ago"In ~2 years, summon should work anywhere connected by land & not blocked by borders, eg you're in LA and the car is in NY" - Elon Musk 1/6/2016 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/686279251293777920 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/686279251293777920
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- nikolay 5y agoOh, wow! Who are the idiots that will pay $200/mo for this?!