5 ms·

To your first point: Cops have "meme-like" thoughts and sayings as well ("9 out of 10 times, the spouse did it", etc.) that would prove the attorney's point: by

by moate 5y ago

To your first point: Cops have "meme-like" thoughts and sayings as well ("9 out of 10 times, the spouse did it", etc.) that would prove the attorney's point: by involving the cops, you're going to get investigated to some degree. The more serious the crime, the more likely this is. It's not cynical for a defense attorney to have the goal of "the people I represent never go to jail". It's literally his job. The fact that he then takes that advice out of his office and onto YouTube as part of his advertising his practice also seems reasonable. IDK if you murder-raped 100,000 people. Due process is due process. The worse the charge the higher the level of effort I'm expecting from the cops. If they can't get charges to stick, what are they even there for?

staticman2 5y ago
You wrote "It's not cynical for a defense attorney to have the goal of "the people I represent never go to jail" You are responding to something I never said. The attorney does not represent people watching the Youtube video. He isn't giving advise to clients but saying things to society at large. I have a feeling you would not actually folllow the attorney's advise in the real world. If you saw someone being raped in front of your house would you call 911 or would you say "the Youtuber with a law degree told me not to. " I suspect you would do the right thing and talk to the 911 operator. So why defend the video?
- moate 5y ago
  To respond to what you feel is your point: 911 operators are not police officers in my state (NJ). They take and log calls and information, and may hand it over to the police, but they are not responsible for investigating crimes. I can call 911, report a crime is being committed with the intention of having the police intervene, provide no additional details beyond that, and then never speak to a police officer unless they subpoena testimony from me (and even then, issue statements through a lawyer). This is why I'm defending the video. We live in a society, and I fully accept that while also accepting that I don't trust cops ever under any circumstances period.
  - staticman2 5y ago
    Suppose the rapist drags the victim into the bushes. The cops show up, look around and say "we got a report of an attack." I do in fact believe you are going to talk to the police and tell them where the attacker is. In fact I believe the guy who made the video will too.
    - InvertedRhodium 5y ago
      Even if you're right (which I personally doubt) - that would more be a commentary on how people can be convinced to assume risk without any upside rather than a rationale of why it's a good idea to voluntarily talk to the police.
      - staticman2 5y ago
        I'd argue it's more a commentary on how the lawyer making the video is pretending to be less moral than the median human being and is probably not as lacking in human decency as he is pretending to be for performative career reasons. Though your framing in terms of pure selfishness (risk and upside to the person talking to the police without consideration for anyone else) is probably irrational unless you are also opposed to altruism. If you generally despise altruism and are not wired for emotions like "guilt" I believe you may in fact not talk to the police in that scenario.
        InvertedRhodium 5y ago
        > is probably irrational unless you are also opposed to altruism. No, it just means that I value my personal well-being over those of others. Maybe to an extent you dislike, but that's also part of my point - the expectation that other people should place themselves at risk for your well-being could also be interpreted as a selfish or self-entitled attitude.
    - moate 5y ago
      And suppose the cops are actually aliens, and they take me on their starship, and head out for the skys. They'll say, come sail away, come sail away, come sail away with me. Stop moving the goal posts. I'm going to do exactly what I said. But by all means, find me IRL and do a rape in front of my house to see what happens. It's the only way to actually prove any of this. </talking in this thread>

by moate 5y ago

staticman2 5y ago

You wrote "It's not cynical for a defense attorney to have the goal of "the people I represent never go to jail" You are responding to something I never said. The attorney does not represent people watching the Youtube video. He isn't giving advise to clients but saying things to society at large. I have a feeling you would not actually folllow the attorney's advise in the real world. If you saw someone being raped in front of your house would you call 911 or would you say "the Youtuber with a law degree told me not to. " I suspect you would do the right thing and talk to the 911 operator. So why defend the video?

moate 5y ago
To respond to what you feel is your point: 911 operators are not police officers in my state (NJ). They take and log calls and information, and may hand it over to the police, but they are not responsible for investigating crimes. I can call 911, report a crime is being committed with the intention of having the police intervene, provide no additional details beyond that, and then never speak to a police officer unless they subpoena testimony from me (and even then, issue statements through a lawyer). This is why I'm defending the video. We live in a society, and I fully accept that while also accepting that I don't trust cops ever under any circumstances period.
- staticman2 5y ago
  Suppose the rapist drags the victim into the bushes. The cops show up, look around and say "we got a report of an attack." I do in fact believe you are going to talk to the police and tell them where the attacker is. In fact I believe the guy who made the video will too.
  - InvertedRhodium 5y ago
    Even if you're right (which I personally doubt) - that would more be a commentary on how people can be convinced to assume risk without any upside rather than a rationale of why it's a good idea to voluntarily talk to the police.
    - staticman2 5y ago
      I'd argue it's more a commentary on how the lawyer making the video is pretending to be less moral than the median human being and is probably not as lacking in human decency as he is pretending to be for performative career reasons. Though your framing in terms of pure selfishness (risk and upside to the person talking to the police without consideration for anyone else) is probably irrational unless you are also opposed to altruism. If you generally despise altruism and are not wired for emotions like "guilt" I believe you may in fact not talk to the police in that scenario.
      - InvertedRhodium 5y ago
        > is probably irrational unless you are also opposed to altruism. No, it just means that I value my personal well-being over those of others. Maybe to an extent you dislike, but that's also part of my point - the expectation that other people should place themselves at risk for your well-being could also be interpreted as a selfish or self-entitled attitude.
  - moate 5y ago
    And suppose the cops are actually aliens, and they take me on their starship, and head out for the skys. They'll say, come sail away, come sail away, come sail away with me. Stop moving the goal posts. I'm going to do exactly what I said. But by all means, find me IRL and do a rape in front of my house to see what happens. It's the only way to actually prove any of this. </talking in this thread>