4 ms·

>> If an adult with kids is making minimum wage, they need to be able to rent a two-bedroom. Should everyone be able to afford the average rent?

droptablemain 5y ago
Nah, they should just sleep on the street. But not your street, of course -- somewhere far away and out of your sight.
- gjs278 5y ago
  they could get a roommate or a partner
- gruez 5y ago
  You fell for the trap in the parent post's phrasing. Everyone not being able to afford the average rent (ie. there is at least one person that can't afford the average rent) doesn't mean people will be homeless. The people making minimum wage can live in below average housing
  - ben0x539 5y ago
    Maybe you're falling for a trap here too? The phrasing implies the availability of a sufficient supply of adequate housing that's meaningfully below average rent, but that doesn't seem obvious to me.
    - avalys 5y ago
      What fraction of the housing supply do you believe is available at “below average rent”?
      - rufus_foreman 5y ago
        1/2
        ben0x539 5y ago
        Isn't that median?
ahoy 5y ago
Yes, unequivocally. It is a moral failure of our society - where there IS so much wealth - that so many struggle so hard just to put a roof of their heads. It's a worse failure still that anyone goes homeless.
- VRay 5y ago
  you can afford food and obamacare on minimum wage, though The reason you can't afford rent is because our housing policies make home ownership a highly-leveraged, government-backed investment that's guaranteed to appreciate exponentially forever
  - adventured 5y ago
    > our housing policies make home ownership a highly-leveraged, government-backed investment that's guaranteed to appreciate exponentially forever It's not appreciating, it's pacing real inflation, if you're lucky. You can tell by comparing it to other significant $USD priced items over decades: gold, oil, healthcare, education, cost of a new car. Housing isn't even outrunning the price inflation on new cars (a purely capital eating monster). In 2000 the average price of a new car was $21,000; today it's $41,000 (no joke). In 2000 the average home sale price (not new homes, any homes), was ~$205,000; today it's a bit over $400,000. Most people get their asses handed to them in real terms on their home 'investments.' Inflation alone is enough to ensure they don't earn a real return. And then once you add in maintenance, repairs, interest, insurance and property taxes, forget about it. Housing as a good investment is one of the greatest financial frauds ever sold to the masses. It only works on average in fantasy if someone drops context of the total cost across 30 or 50 years. For the average person it becomes a very mediocre form of savings. China's cheap manufacturing spared the US a significant cost of living beating over the past 20 years, by supplying a vast deflationary push down on US consumer prices. That shielded households from some of the currency destruction (inflationary) hit that is more widely reflected in the prior mentioned USD priced items.
- zdragnar 5y ago
  That's why we have programs such as (but not limited to) section 8. Most homelessness is temporary, and there is a lot of assistance in a variety of programs to help people in that situation. Most chronic homelessness is tied to mental health issues and / or drug abuse among people who refuse treatment, and would exist independent of minimum wage and rent levels. Source: an ex and relatives who work with the homeless community.
opinion-is-bad 5y ago
It’s a mathematical impossibility for everyone to be at or above average.

droptablemain 5y ago

Nah, they should just sleep on the street. But not your street, of course -- somewhere far away and out of your sight.

gjs278 5y ago
they could get a roommate or a partner
gruez 5y ago
You fell for the trap in the parent post's phrasing. Everyone not being able to afford the average rent (ie. there is at least one person that can't afford the average rent) doesn't mean people will be homeless. The people making minimum wage can live in below average housing
- ben0x539 5y ago
  Maybe you're falling for a trap here too? The phrasing implies the availability of a sufficient supply of adequate housing that's meaningfully below average rent, but that doesn't seem obvious to me.
  - avalys 5y ago
    What fraction of the housing supply do you believe is available at “below average rent”?
    - rufus_foreman 5y ago
      1/2
      - ben0x539 5y ago
        Isn't that median?

ahoy 5y ago

Yes, unequivocally. It is a moral failure of our society - where there IS so much wealth - that so many struggle so hard just to put a roof of their heads. It's a worse failure still that anyone goes homeless.

VRay 5y ago
you can afford food and obamacare on minimum wage, though The reason you can't afford rent is because our housing policies make home ownership a highly-leveraged, government-backed investment that's guaranteed to appreciate exponentially forever
- adventured 5y ago
  > our housing policies make home ownership a highly-leveraged, government-backed investment that's guaranteed to appreciate exponentially forever It's not appreciating, it's pacing real inflation, if you're lucky. You can tell by comparing it to other significant $USD priced items over decades: gold, oil, healthcare, education, cost of a new car. Housing isn't even outrunning the price inflation on new cars (a purely capital eating monster). In 2000 the average price of a new car was $21,000; today it's $41,000 (no joke). In 2000 the average home sale price (not new homes, any homes), was ~$205,000; today it's a bit over $400,000. Most people get their asses handed to them in real terms on their home 'investments.' Inflation alone is enough to ensure they don't earn a real return. And then once you add in maintenance, repairs, interest, insurance and property taxes, forget about it. Housing as a good investment is one of the greatest financial frauds ever sold to the masses. It only works on average in fantasy if someone drops context of the total cost across 30 or 50 years. For the average person it becomes a very mediocre form of savings. China's cheap manufacturing spared the US a significant cost of living beating over the past 20 years, by supplying a vast deflationary push down on US consumer prices. That shielded households from some of the currency destruction (inflationary) hit that is more widely reflected in the prior mentioned USD priced items.
zdragnar 5y ago
That's why we have programs such as (but not limited to) section 8. Most homelessness is temporary, and there is a lot of assistance in a variety of programs to help people in that situation. Most chronic homelessness is tied to mental health issues and / or drug abuse among people who refuse treatment, and would exist independent of minimum wage and rent levels. Source: an ex and relatives who work with the homeless community.

opinion-is-bad 5y ago

It’s a mathematical impossibility for everyone to be at or above average.