7 ms·

Minimum wage workers can't afford rent anywhere in America

40 points by LinuxBender 5y ago

andrewmcwatters 5y ago
I want Biden to use brute force to make homes a commodity like they were 50 years ago or prior. Create a bunch of jobs to just compete directly with the private sector and plummet home building costs into the ground. Work with some great designers across the nation and create a renaissance of home design. Dirt cheap 1500 sq. ft homes. None of this 300k nonsense. Cut it directly in half or more. Take undeveloped land by eminent domain unless the owners can document that they’re going to do something with it, and just build a shit ton of homes WWII style, and allocate unfathomable amounts of taxpayer funds from existing appropriation categories into that instead. I want a home for under $150,000. I want REITs outlawed from buying them. And I want investors national and foreign prohibited from purchasing them. I want a new golden age of home ownership to combat the slow march to neo-feudalism. Won’t ever happen, but I’ll dream.
- jmole 5y ago
  Where do you put them though? Good land is hard to come by & most of what you're describing here is already done by commodity housing developers in the outskirts of (e.g.) many big cities in Texas. New housing creates new infrastructure problems, and our government is insanely bad at dealing with these kinds of things. Here's my equally unlikely but also naively aspirational plan: inflate the US dollar until housing is affordable again.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - oyashirochama 5y ago
    You joke about that being equally unlikely. But looking at the current inflation rate it is much more likely to be held true compared to any other economic plans or lack there-of.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > But looking at the current inflation rate it is much more likely to be held true compared to any other economic plans or lack there-of. No, its not; even if you naively project the current inflation rate into the future instead of expecting a reversion to the mean, since the current inflation rate is largely driven by housing prices (that is, housing prices are inflating much faster than overall price levels and, more importantly, wages), it would never make housing affordable; in fact it is doing the opposite.
  - craftkiller 5y ago
    Chicago has loads of vacant land[1] and unused buildings[2] not far from the city center. Also, the land for "the 78" is still mostly undeveloped[3]. [1] https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7917749/Screen_Shot_2017_02_02_at_10.39.05_AM.png https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7917749/Sc... [2] https://chicago.curbed.com/2016/3/9/11185730/chicago-eminent-domain-old-post-office https://chicago.curbed.com/2016/3/9/11185730/chicago-eminent... [3] https://www.78chicago.com/ https://www.78chicago.com/
  - 1123581321 5y ago
    Apologies if you’re joking, but inflation increases housing prices and reduces the effective minimum wage.
    - jmole 5y ago
      housing prices (and asset prices in general) are already in a bubble - you can either deflate that bubble (unlikely to happen given the state of things), or you inflate the rest of the economy to match.
- dzhiurgis 5y ago
  As a renter looking to buy I want that too, but most people are already property owners. Which means if all property prices drop their equity will fall below 0 causing way more problems than before.
- underseacables 5y ago
  If the government starts taking homes from one person and giving them to another, there will be war. This is not Germany 1933, i’m not saying that’s what you’re talking about, but it sounds like it. Taking from one and giving to the other is not a solution.
  - pope_meat 5y ago
    Maybe, maybe, although if a neighbor was going around gathering a posse because the government took his extra homes?...well I don't think I'd pick up arms for that cause.
  - FrankenTan 5y ago
    That already happens and it's about to happen to millions of people in the US: it's called eviction.
    - underseacables 5y ago
      No, I think you’re confusing literal taking by the government, with a private action of eviction backed by government enforcement. The government generally isn’t the one to initiate an eviction action, it’s the owner, bank, etc.
  - andrewmcwatters 5y ago
    I guess you don’t realize that eminent domain already happens today and very frequently.
    - balefrost 5y ago
      Intended (in the US at least) to be exercised only in the public interest, like to build a dam for flood control or a railroad right-of-way to facilitate commerce. I fully recognize that "public interest" can be twisted in all sorts of ways, but I agree with the GP comment that taking land from some people to give it directly to other people does not conform to my understanding of the spirit of the eminent domain law.
    - 5y ago
- LinuxBender 5y ago
  Take undeveloped land by eminent domain Swap that part out with Government owned land and I think you would get more support. The U.S. Federal Government owns a tremendous amount of land in each state [1] with varying degrees of usability for urban development. [1] - https://ballotpedia.org/Federal_land_ownership_by_state https://ballotpedia.org/Federal_land_ownership_by_state
justin_oaks 5y ago
Federal minimum wage is $7.25?! Wow, I guess I'm just too used to CA minimum wage which is roughly double that ($14). Even with a higher federal minimum wage, the problem of "The rent is too damn high!" would persist.
- athms 5y ago
  $14 for employers with more than 25 employees, $13 for 25 or less.
  - athms 5y ago
    Oh look, more idiots down voting because they think I am wrong. Maybe if you folks ran a business in California you would know better. https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/FAQ_MinimumWage.htm https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/FAQ_MinimumWage.htm
    - LinuxBender 5y ago
      Please don't name call when people do something you disagree with. [1] Consider instead adding the reference like you did "adding reference" and wait for numbers to correct. [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
xiaodai 5y ago
sarcasm warning. it's demand supply. if there is supply then rent will fall so that these min wage worker can afford it? also, maybe it's a demand issue. these works just don't demand housing. so yeah.
CryptoPunk 5y ago
Unemployed workers also cannot afford rent anywhere in America. Creating an artificial price floor on labor will reduce the consumption of labor, leading to more unemployment.
- herbst 5y ago
  But does it? As far as I know the US has way worse unemployment numbers than Europe, yet Europe mostly enforces a proper minimal wage.
  - CryptoPunk 5y ago
    Europe has way worse unemployment numbers than the US.
    - cloudfifty 5y ago
      There are certainly countries in Europe that can match, and maybe even beat, US unemployment numbers on historical data while having much higher labour costs.
      - CryptoPunk 5y ago
        And there are US states that can match and beat almost all European states on unemployment numbers. But my point is that the parent comment is wrong: the US has a lower unemployment rate than the EU as a whole, and a much lower unemployment rate if you only count the regions of Europe with high social welfare spending.
throwawayboise 5y ago
Minumum wage is not and never was meant to allow the worker to afford a two-bedroom rental on his own.
- athms 5y ago
  Where are the kids going to sleep? I suppose we can have coffin homes like Hong Kong. Maybe four beds on one wall with the communal toilet and tub down the hall.
  - lloydatkinson 5y ago
    The part OP didn't say was they don't believe "poor" people should have homes, children, and especially not more than one bedroom. Utterly disgusted at the thread as a whole, and I'm taking a dimmer and dimmer view of HN generally. Seems so full of nastiness these days.
    - websites2023 5y ago
      While I agree with you in spirit, I also think this is an uncharitable view of OP’s statement. While it is true that some subset of the population relies on the minimum wage to survive, it’s perfectly reasonable to question whether that’s the best tool for the job without meaning that the poor don’t deserve homes/children. For example: federal housing subsidies could be expanded, as well as SNAP, to augment the minimum wage. In fact, that is already what happens. So a fuller portrait of this situation might include the total hourly wage when factoring in government subsidies. I will contend that even with those add-ins the minimum wage still isn’t high enough, especially in relation to the massive productivity gains realized through automation and efficiency over the past half-century.
- websites2023 5y ago
  What was “meant” to be the case for an economic policy is quite besides the point. If wages don’t keep pace with the rise in housing prices, upward mobility for low wage workers decreases. They rely more on public services. The have poorer health outcomes. This has real consequences for the economy overall. Dismissing this concern with “it wasn’t meant to do that” is a little like seeing a man with a bandaid over a gaping axe wound and saying, “well, sucks for him — but that bandaid wasn’t meant to stop that much blood.”
thehappypm 5y ago
Why is there a minimum wage at all? What's the point?
- OzyM 5y ago
  We've tried the no-minimum-wage experiment before.[0] A lack of minimum wage tends to lead to extremely exploitative wages for workers without skills in high demand. If you agree with the statement "anyone who works full time should be able to afford necessities like safe housing and adequate food," a minimum wage is required. If you disagree with that statement, I guess you could argue for no minimum wage, but your moral system will be different enough from most people to make you the minority position. [0] https://www.dol.gov/general/aboutdol/history/flsa1938 https://www.dol.gov/general/aboutdol/history/flsa1938
  - hairofadog 5y ago
    > your moral system will be different enough from most people to make you the minority position. I hope you’re right about this, but in my experience many folks in the US harbor a puritanical sense of justice in which people have what they have because they deserve it (i.e. poor people are poor because they deserve to be, and wealthy people are wealthy because they deserve to be). To be clear, I vehemently disagree with this sentiment but I have encountered it enough to wonder whether it’s the majority opinion.
    - OzyM 5y ago
      For the sake of my own sanity, if nothing else, I am going to choose to believe that this isn't the majority opinion. I don't think Objectivism is quite that popular.
  - thehappypm 5y ago
    "anyone who works full time should be able to afford necessities like safe housing and adequate food" sounds great. A minimum wage is a lot like having your health care tied to your employer. With employer-sponsored health care, employers pay the lion's share of the cost, and workers are left out to dry if they leave their jobs. Minimum wage is the same concept except for at a grander scale. Your employer provides the lion's share of the resources for your food, housing, transportation, etc. With health care the liberal agenda is focusing on shifting it away from the employer, so you're not stuck in the rat trap of needing a job to go to the doctor. Maybe we need a similar thing for other basics.
egberts1 5y ago
No minimum-wage worker deserves a two-bedroom apartment, maybe one-bedroom but a studio, yes. Of course, this is a continuation of a historical trend to this day.
- athms 5y ago
  You should try living in a studio with four people.
- lloydatkinson 5y ago
  Does it take a lot of effort to be this awful of a human being or does it come second nature to you?
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    > Does it take a lot of effort to be this awful of a human being or does it come second nature to you? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html You're going to need to learn to be a little more subtle than that.
    - lloydatkinson 5y ago
      Not sure what you expect me to say to that
- OzyM 5y ago
  In your opinion, what is the minimum standard of living that someone who works full-time deserves? ( / what is the minimum that someone who works full-time and has dependents deserves?)
JimTheMan 5y ago
A surprising amount of people seem content with a minimum wage earning underclass. "Minimum wage was never meant to support..." Why not? Can we not define what it is meant to do? How will it detract from your life that someone else existence is worth living? And when you earn that little, as much as $20 dollars a weak extra goes a long way. Better yet, they spend that $20 a week extra. It's good for everyone.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Why not? Because minimum wage sets the minimum value job that can be done. > How will it detract from your life that someone else existence is worth living? Minimum wage isn't minimum standard of living. There's a certain level where minumum wage mostly mitigates lack of bargaining power in low wage labor, but as you get further and further beyond that point, you are raising wages less and causing unemployment more. If you want to set a minimum standard of living, you want a UBI, not a minimum wage.
  - JimTheMan 5y ago
    Only 2.3% of Americans earn minimum wage. https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2017/home.htm https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2017/home.htm The relationship between unemployment and minimum wage is not as concrete as you might think. Economics 101 predicts it would, but empirical studies don't actually tend to support or refute that notion. Unsure how UBI doesn't results in massive inflation. Not against the concept, but not sure why we couldn't just have a functioning welfare system.
  - bsd44 5y ago
    It's actually the opposite of what you wrote. Minimum wage is precisely "minimum standard of living", not a "minimum value job". There's no such thing as a standardised minimum wage for various types of job, every job has a different requirements that set the minimum wage. The reason why we (at least in Europe) set the minimum wage is to cover basic costs such as housing, health insurance and food or in other words basic costs of living.
hermannj314 5y ago
I know there are a lot of opinions on what the Federal minimum wage should be, but can we all agree that $ constants in our laws are always a bad idea? I think any law, without a sunset provision, that mentions a $ amount, should peg that $ value to a periodically updated relevant economic metric - inflation, etc. For example, if the outrage over minimum wage has something to do with median rent, then tie the two values together, so we can stop having these pointless debates everytime rent goes up. tldr - minimum wage should be computed at run-time, not compile time.
- herbst 5y ago
  Here in Switzerland this is mostly calculated on exactly these factors. If you somehow earn below that, for whatever reason, you can get the difference from the state.
prepend 5y ago
I could afford a two-bedroom apartment on my own either and had a roommate for years. I think the headline is inaccurate because minimum wage workers can obviously afford some rents. I think if we want everyone to have a basic housing level we should just invest in lots of council homes or projects and start handing them out. I don’t think it’s the best or even a good idea, but better than trying to set the wage floor at the price of two bedroom apartments. That just seems silly, that everyone should have a two bedroom apartment? That’s a waste for people who don’t need it. Also assumes that I will only work one minimum wage job and that I’ll be able to work 40 hours. This study isn’t very useful.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

40 points by LinuxBender 5y ago

I want Biden to use brute force to make homes a commodity like they were 50 years ago or prior. Create a bunch of jobs to just compete directly with the private sector and plummet home building costs into the ground. Work with some great designers across the nation and create a renaissance of home design. Dirt cheap 1500 sq. ft homes. None of this 300k nonsense. Cut it directly in half or more. Take undeveloped land by eminent domain unless the owners can document that they’re going to do something with it, and just build a shit ton of homes WWII style, and allocate unfathomable amounts of taxpayer funds from existing appropriation categories into that instead. I want a home for under $150,000. I want REITs outlawed from buying them. And I want investors national and foreign prohibited from purchasing them. I want a new golden age of home ownership to combat the slow march to neo-feudalism. Won’t ever happen, but I’ll dream.

jmole 5y ago
Where do you put them though? Good land is hard to come by & most of what you're describing here is already done by commodity housing developers in the outskirts of (e.g.) many big cities in Texas. New housing creates new infrastructure problems, and our government is insanely bad at dealing with these kinds of things. Here's my equally unlikely but also naively aspirational plan: inflate the US dollar until housing is affordable again.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- oyashirochama 5y ago
  You joke about that being equally unlikely. But looking at the current inflation rate it is much more likely to be held true compared to any other economic plans or lack there-of.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > But looking at the current inflation rate it is much more likely to be held true compared to any other economic plans or lack there-of. No, its not; even if you naively project the current inflation rate into the future instead of expecting a reversion to the mean, since the current inflation rate is largely driven by housing prices (that is, housing prices are inflating much faster than overall price levels and, more importantly, wages), it would never make housing affordable; in fact it is doing the opposite.
- craftkiller 5y ago
  Chicago has loads of vacant land[1] and unused buildings[2] not far from the city center. Also, the land for "the 78" is still mostly undeveloped[3]. [1] https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7917749/Screen_Shot_2017_02_02_at_10.39.05_AM.png https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7917749/Sc... [2] https://chicago.curbed.com/2016/3/9/11185730/chicago-eminent-domain-old-post-office https://chicago.curbed.com/2016/3/9/11185730/chicago-eminent... [3] https://www.78chicago.com/ https://www.78chicago.com/
- 1123581321 5y ago
  Apologies if you’re joking, but inflation increases housing prices and reduces the effective minimum wage.
  - jmole 5y ago
    housing prices (and asset prices in general) are already in a bubble - you can either deflate that bubble (unlikely to happen given the state of things), or you inflate the rest of the economy to match.
dzhiurgis 5y ago
As a renter looking to buy I want that too, but most people are already property owners. Which means if all property prices drop their equity will fall below 0 causing way more problems than before.
underseacables 5y ago
If the government starts taking homes from one person and giving them to another, there will be war. This is not Germany 1933, i’m not saying that’s what you’re talking about, but it sounds like it. Taking from one and giving to the other is not a solution.
- pope_meat 5y ago
  Maybe, maybe, although if a neighbor was going around gathering a posse because the government took his extra homes?...well I don't think I'd pick up arms for that cause.
- FrankenTan 5y ago
  That already happens and it's about to happen to millions of people in the US: it's called eviction.
  - underseacables 5y ago
    No, I think you’re confusing literal taking by the government, with a private action of eviction backed by government enforcement. The government generally isn’t the one to initiate an eviction action, it’s the owner, bank, etc.
- andrewmcwatters 5y ago
  I guess you don’t realize that eminent domain already happens today and very frequently.
  - balefrost 5y ago
    Intended (in the US at least) to be exercised only in the public interest, like to build a dam for flood control or a railroad right-of-way to facilitate commerce. I fully recognize that "public interest" can be twisted in all sorts of ways, but I agree with the GP comment that taking land from some people to give it directly to other people does not conform to my understanding of the spirit of the eminent domain law.
  - 5y ago
LinuxBender 5y ago
Take undeveloped land by eminent domain Swap that part out with Government owned land and I think you would get more support. The U.S. Federal Government owns a tremendous amount of land in each state [1] with varying degrees of usability for urban development. [1] - https://ballotpedia.org/Federal_land_ownership_by_state https://ballotpedia.org/Federal_land_ownership_by_state

justin_oaks 5y ago

Federal minimum wage is $7.25?! Wow, I guess I'm just too used to CA minimum wage which is roughly double that ($14). Even with a higher federal minimum wage, the problem of "The rent is too damn high!" would persist.

athms 5y ago
$14 for employers with more than 25 employees, $13 for 25 or less.
- athms 5y ago
  Oh look, more idiots down voting because they think I am wrong. Maybe if you folks ran a business in California you would know better. https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/FAQ_MinimumWage.htm https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/FAQ_MinimumWage.htm
  - LinuxBender 5y ago
    Please don't name call when people do something you disagree with. [1] Consider instead adding the reference like you did "adding reference" and wait for numbers to correct. [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]

xiaodai 5y ago

sarcasm warning. it's demand supply. if there is supply then rent will fall so that these min wage worker can afford it? also, maybe it's a demand issue. these works just don't demand housing. so yeah.

CryptoPunk 5y ago

Unemployed workers also cannot afford rent anywhere in America. Creating an artificial price floor on labor will reduce the consumption of labor, leading to more unemployment.

herbst 5y ago
But does it? As far as I know the US has way worse unemployment numbers than Europe, yet Europe mostly enforces a proper minimal wage.
- CryptoPunk 5y ago
  Europe has way worse unemployment numbers than the US.
  - cloudfifty 5y ago
    There are certainly countries in Europe that can match, and maybe even beat, US unemployment numbers on historical data while having much higher labour costs.
    - CryptoPunk 5y ago
      And there are US states that can match and beat almost all European states on unemployment numbers. But my point is that the parent comment is wrong: the US has a lower unemployment rate than the EU as a whole, and a much lower unemployment rate if you only count the regions of Europe with high social welfare spending.

throwawayboise 5y ago

Minumum wage is not and never was meant to allow the worker to afford a two-bedroom rental on his own.

athms 5y ago
Where are the kids going to sleep? I suppose we can have coffin homes like Hong Kong. Maybe four beds on one wall with the communal toilet and tub down the hall.
- lloydatkinson 5y ago
  The part OP didn't say was they don't believe "poor" people should have homes, children, and especially not more than one bedroom. Utterly disgusted at the thread as a whole, and I'm taking a dimmer and dimmer view of HN generally. Seems so full of nastiness these days.
  - websites2023 5y ago
    While I agree with you in spirit, I also think this is an uncharitable view of OP’s statement. While it is true that some subset of the population relies on the minimum wage to survive, it’s perfectly reasonable to question whether that’s the best tool for the job without meaning that the poor don’t deserve homes/children. For example: federal housing subsidies could be expanded, as well as SNAP, to augment the minimum wage. In fact, that is already what happens. So a fuller portrait of this situation might include the total hourly wage when factoring in government subsidies. I will contend that even with those add-ins the minimum wage still isn’t high enough, especially in relation to the massive productivity gains realized through automation and efficiency over the past half-century.
websites2023 5y ago
What was “meant” to be the case for an economic policy is quite besides the point. If wages don’t keep pace with the rise in housing prices, upward mobility for low wage workers decreases. They rely more on public services. The have poorer health outcomes. This has real consequences for the economy overall. Dismissing this concern with “it wasn’t meant to do that” is a little like seeing a man with a bandaid over a gaping axe wound and saying, “well, sucks for him — but that bandaid wasn’t meant to stop that much blood.”

thehappypm 5y ago

Why is there a minimum wage at all? What's the point?

OzyM 5y ago
We've tried the no-minimum-wage experiment before.[0] A lack of minimum wage tends to lead to extremely exploitative wages for workers without skills in high demand. If you agree with the statement "anyone who works full time should be able to afford necessities like safe housing and adequate food," a minimum wage is required. If you disagree with that statement, I guess you could argue for no minimum wage, but your moral system will be different enough from most people to make you the minority position. [0] https://www.dol.gov/general/aboutdol/history/flsa1938 https://www.dol.gov/general/aboutdol/history/flsa1938
- hairofadog 5y ago
  > your moral system will be different enough from most people to make you the minority position. I hope you’re right about this, but in my experience many folks in the US harbor a puritanical sense of justice in which people have what they have because they deserve it (i.e. poor people are poor because they deserve to be, and wealthy people are wealthy because they deserve to be). To be clear, I vehemently disagree with this sentiment but I have encountered it enough to wonder whether it’s the majority opinion.
  - OzyM 5y ago
    For the sake of my own sanity, if nothing else, I am going to choose to believe that this isn't the majority opinion. I don't think Objectivism is quite that popular.
- thehappypm 5y ago
  "anyone who works full time should be able to afford necessities like safe housing and adequate food" sounds great. A minimum wage is a lot like having your health care tied to your employer. With employer-sponsored health care, employers pay the lion's share of the cost, and workers are left out to dry if they leave their jobs. Minimum wage is the same concept except for at a grander scale. Your employer provides the lion's share of the resources for your food, housing, transportation, etc. With health care the liberal agenda is focusing on shifting it away from the employer, so you're not stuck in the rat trap of needing a job to go to the doctor. Maybe we need a similar thing for other basics.

egberts1 5y ago

No minimum-wage worker deserves a two-bedroom apartment, maybe one-bedroom but a studio, yes. Of course, this is a continuation of a historical trend to this day.

athms 5y ago
You should try living in a studio with four people.
lloydatkinson 5y ago
Does it take a lot of effort to be this awful of a human being or does it come second nature to you?
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  > Does it take a lot of effort to be this awful of a human being or does it come second nature to you? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html You're going to need to learn to be a little more subtle than that.
  - lloydatkinson 5y ago
    Not sure what you expect me to say to that
OzyM 5y ago
In your opinion, what is the minimum standard of living that someone who works full-time deserves? ( / what is the minimum that someone who works full-time and has dependents deserves?)

JimTheMan 5y ago

A surprising amount of people seem content with a minimum wage earning underclass. "Minimum wage was never meant to support..." Why not? Can we not define what it is meant to do? How will it detract from your life that someone else existence is worth living? And when you earn that little, as much as $20 dollars a weak extra goes a long way. Better yet, they spend that $20 a week extra. It's good for everyone.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> Why not? Because minimum wage sets the minimum value job that can be done. > How will it detract from your life that someone else existence is worth living? Minimum wage isn't minimum standard of living. There's a certain level where minumum wage mostly mitigates lack of bargaining power in low wage labor, but as you get further and further beyond that point, you are raising wages less and causing unemployment more. If you want to set a minimum standard of living, you want a UBI, not a minimum wage.
- JimTheMan 5y ago
  Only 2.3% of Americans earn minimum wage. https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2017/home.htm https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2017/home.htm The relationship between unemployment and minimum wage is not as concrete as you might think. Economics 101 predicts it would, but empirical studies don't actually tend to support or refute that notion. Unsure how UBI doesn't results in massive inflation. Not against the concept, but not sure why we couldn't just have a functioning welfare system.
- bsd44 5y ago
  It's actually the opposite of what you wrote. Minimum wage is precisely "minimum standard of living", not a "minimum value job". There's no such thing as a standardised minimum wage for various types of job, every job has a different requirements that set the minimum wage. The reason why we (at least in Europe) set the minimum wage is to cover basic costs such as housing, health insurance and food or in other words basic costs of living.

hermannj314 5y ago

I know there are a lot of opinions on what the Federal minimum wage should be, but can we all agree that $ constants in our laws are always a bad idea? I think any law, without a sunset provision, that mentions a $ amount, should peg that $ value to a periodically updated relevant economic metric - inflation, etc. For example, if the outrage over minimum wage has something to do with median rent, then tie the two values together, so we can stop having these pointless debates everytime rent goes up. tldr - minimum wage should be computed at run-time, not compile time.

herbst 5y ago
Here in Switzerland this is mostly calculated on exactly these factors. If you somehow earn below that, for whatever reason, you can get the difference from the state.

prepend 5y ago

I could afford a two-bedroom apartment on my own either and had a roommate for years. I think the headline is inaccurate because minimum wage workers can obviously afford some rents. I think if we want everyone to have a basic housing level we should just invest in lots of council homes or projects and start handing them out. I don’t think it’s the best or even a good idea, but better than trying to set the wage floor at the price of two bedroom apartments. That just seems silly, that everyone should have a two bedroom apartment? That’s a waste for people who don’t need it. Also assumes that I will only work one minimum wage job and that I’ll be able to work 40 hours. This study isn’t very useful.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]