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I’m a photographer, and I right now I’m targeting local teenagers and their moms for high school senior portrait sessions. I would think they’d rather see that,

I’m a photographer, and I right now I’m targeting local teenagers and their moms for high school senior portrait sessions. I would think they’d rather see that, be reminded it’s time to get them done, and possibly learn about a better photographer than seeing an ad for an ice cream maker or what have you.

tonyedgecombe 5y ago
In other words you want to manipulate them into buying something they wouldn’t have if they hadn’t seen your ad. That doesn’t sound like a good thing for the person on the other side of the transaction.
- mingfli 5y ago
  This seems like an extreme way of thinking about it. Maybe they like taking/looking at/sending the pictures, but between work, summer camp, soccer lessons, making sure everyone's fed, etc, they just forgot to book a session, and seeing the ad reminds them to do it. In this light, it seems like a great thing for both sides of the transaction.
- chillacy 5y ago
  A common view is that both sides in an economic transaction gain some sort of benefit. Nonetheless sentiments like "all labor is exploitation" are fairly common, so I can see why that view exists, given the power disparity.
  - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
    I believe your first point and disbelieve the second. That doesn't get away from the basic fact that all advertising is an attempt at manipulation. The advertiser is trying to encourage a transaction when there wouldn't otherwise have been one. It would be pointless if this wasn't the case. If you don't want to be manipulated at all (my preference) then it's better not to see targeted adverts.
    - chillacy 5y ago
      Hmm, if manipulation means intending a change in behavior in the recipient then this is true. But by that definition many things are manipulative, like regulation / tax codes (which create behavior changes). So I'm not sure if I quite understand this idea of seeking a change in behavior being distasteful. Maybe it's that some advertisers create the problem they're solving (e.g. body image issues, etc)? Or that it's used for commercial ends? Or that the best product recommendations typically come from friends and family so why bother having ads anyways? Having bought some products I discovered from ads myself, I can't help but think that I have benefited from the arrangement in a similar way that both parties benefit in economic exchanges. Obviously I'd rather have had my friend tell me but that might have taken... who knows how long.
  - ric2b 5y ago
    > A common view is that both sides in an economic transaction gain some sort of benefit. Yes, assuming 0% force is involved and both agents are 100% rational. Just like spherical cow, the real world is not that simple.
- AuryGlenz 5y ago
  Most people (in my area) hire a photographer to take senior photos. They may hire me because they see my ad instead of someone else they already know of because they like my work better. Or, let's say they decided to just do it on their own/have a friend do it...until they see one of my images and go "wow." The second may be spending money when they wouldn't, but that's pretty rare. If they do it's because they decided it was worth it. The others are just being shown another option that they might not have known existed, meaning they're more informed about where they're going to spend their money. I don't see who is getting hurt in this scenario. I get work that I need to survive and they're getting photos that they're excited about.
frickinLasers 5y ago
Not a mom, but if I want to learn about a better [photographer/plumber/mechanic/whatever] I will use the tools that list and attempt to give accurate information about businesses (yelp, angi, BBB, ?), inadequate though they may be. My brain doesn't register your ad. If it does, I'm probably less likely to consider your business, because you shoved an intrusive internet ad in my face.
- AuryGlenz 5y ago
  I mostly "boost" posts to my page, for what it's worth. Also, all three of those are worthless for photographers. We're not like a plumber where as long as the job is done right and priced well you're good. Our style is why you're hiring us, so an ad showing one of my images makes a lot of sense.
  - frickinLasers 5y ago
    I had not thought of that. I'd still rather see it on a local billboard, but as the sibling post says, my opinion is irrelevant anyway.
- bllguo 5y ago
  Everyone says this about advertising, it's a tired narrative that has been disproven countless times in the aggregate. Advertising works. Even if you are correct about yourself (many people don't realize the subliminal impact of ads), the loss of your business is more than made up for by others.
- notacoward 5y ago
  I'm a bit suspicious of Yelp being a better alternative to anything. They've been caught doing more shady stuff than anyone.
rswail 5y ago
You'd be better off doing very local advertising in your area and school districts. Bus stops/billboards/etc all "target" your audience. Contact parent orgs etc, give discounts to word-of-mouth referrals.

tonyedgecombe 5y ago

In other words you want to manipulate them into buying something they wouldn’t have if they hadn’t seen your ad. That doesn’t sound like a good thing for the person on the other side of the transaction.

mingfli 5y ago
This seems like an extreme way of thinking about it. Maybe they like taking/looking at/sending the pictures, but between work, summer camp, soccer lessons, making sure everyone's fed, etc, they just forgot to book a session, and seeing the ad reminds them to do it. In this light, it seems like a great thing for both sides of the transaction.
chillacy 5y ago
A common view is that both sides in an economic transaction gain some sort of benefit. Nonetheless sentiments like "all labor is exploitation" are fairly common, so I can see why that view exists, given the power disparity.
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  I believe your first point and disbelieve the second. That doesn't get away from the basic fact that all advertising is an attempt at manipulation. The advertiser is trying to encourage a transaction when there wouldn't otherwise have been one. It would be pointless if this wasn't the case. If you don't want to be manipulated at all (my preference) then it's better not to see targeted adverts.
  - chillacy 5y ago
    Hmm, if manipulation means intending a change in behavior in the recipient then this is true. But by that definition many things are manipulative, like regulation / tax codes (which create behavior changes). So I'm not sure if I quite understand this idea of seeking a change in behavior being distasteful. Maybe it's that some advertisers create the problem they're solving (e.g. body image issues, etc)? Or that it's used for commercial ends? Or that the best product recommendations typically come from friends and family so why bother having ads anyways? Having bought some products I discovered from ads myself, I can't help but think that I have benefited from the arrangement in a similar way that both parties benefit in economic exchanges. Obviously I'd rather have had my friend tell me but that might have taken... who knows how long.
- ric2b 5y ago
  > A common view is that both sides in an economic transaction gain some sort of benefit. Yes, assuming 0% force is involved and both agents are 100% rational. Just like spherical cow, the real world is not that simple.
AuryGlenz 5y ago
Most people (in my area) hire a photographer to take senior photos. They may hire me because they see my ad instead of someone else they already know of because they like my work better. Or, let's say they decided to just do it on their own/have a friend do it...until they see one of my images and go "wow." The second may be spending money when they wouldn't, but that's pretty rare. If they do it's because they decided it was worth it. The others are just being shown another option that they might not have known existed, meaning they're more informed about where they're going to spend their money. I don't see who is getting hurt in this scenario. I get work that I need to survive and they're getting photos that they're excited about.

frickinLasers 5y ago

Not a mom, but if I want to learn about a better [photographer/plumber/mechanic/whatever] I will use the tools that list and attempt to give accurate information about businesses (yelp, angi, BBB, ?), inadequate though they may be. My brain doesn't register your ad. If it does, I'm probably less likely to consider your business, because you shoved an intrusive internet ad in my face.

AuryGlenz 5y ago
I mostly "boost" posts to my page, for what it's worth. Also, all three of those are worthless for photographers. We're not like a plumber where as long as the job is done right and priced well you're good. Our style is why you're hiring us, so an ad showing one of my images makes a lot of sense.
- frickinLasers 5y ago
  I had not thought of that. I'd still rather see it on a local billboard, but as the sibling post says, my opinion is irrelevant anyway.
bllguo 5y ago
Everyone says this about advertising, it's a tired narrative that has been disproven countless times in the aggregate. Advertising works. Even if you are correct about yourself (many people don't realize the subliminal impact of ads), the loss of your business is more than made up for by others.
notacoward 5y ago
I'm a bit suspicious of Yelp being a better alternative to anything. They've been caught doing more shady stuff than anyone.

rswail 5y ago

You'd be better off doing very local advertising in your area and school districts. Bus stops/billboards/etc all "target" your audience. Contact parent orgs etc, give discounts to word-of-mouth referrals.