15 ms·

Dutch crime reporter dies after being shot

220 points by _Microft 5y ago

rambambram 5y ago
In december 2016 another Dutch 'crime reporter' named Martin Kok was shot to dead. I put that inside parentheses, because that guy was a former criminal/murderer himself and his writing style was really bad (and therefor a joy to read). It was speculated about him that he 'reported' about the activities of a criminal group (basically cocaine traffickers) that was formerly operating stealthy (as in: that group was not in the spotlights of the press yet, it probably was on the radar of the police, I don't know). It was also speculated he got paid for this 'reporting' by another criminal group. It's all mocro mafia related. Comes down to access to the ports of Rotterdam and Antwerp. In 2012 a shipment of 200 kilos of coke went missing in Antwerp. A war broke out. If you are slightly interested in this real life crime stuff, definitely search for 'mocro mafia'. I can really recommend the book called 'Mocro Mafia' by Wouter Laumans (very good book, and it's central theme is around a young Moroccan boy who's frustrated with life and becomes a criminal, to eventually be used as a hitman, very sad read). These real life crime stories sometimes read like a movie script: - Beheadings? Check. - Bombs and rocket launchers? Check. - Executions in broad day light? Check. - Mistakenly killing the wrong people? Check. - Shooting with automatic rifles on police? Check. - Kids being hitmen for like 5.000 euro? Check. - Kidnappings? Check. - Attacks on press, laywers, mayors? Check. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Kok https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Kok
- rambambram 5y ago
  To clarify some things: what is called the 'mocro mafia' is mostly about cocaine import (but also bank robberies in nowadays mostly Germany). What The Netherlands are also famous for is the production of synthetic drugs. What I wrote about attacks on a mayor is said to be coming from that angle. I know, very broad generalization by calling this 'mocro mafia', I don't like that either.
rtz121 5y ago
The results of diversity.
neonate 5y ago
https://archive.is/4GT2z https://archive.is/4GT2z
jb1991 5y ago
This is a national tragedy for the Netherlands and hopefully a much-needed wake up call to the growing similarity between that country and a genuine narco state. Organized crime is completely out of control in the Netherlands. On a margin that far surpasses almost all other countries in the west.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- stiller 5y ago
  According to the World Bank, The Netherlands are the 23rd country in the world with the lowest organized crime: https://tcdata360.worldbank.org/indicators/h3031de56?indicator=678&viz=choropleth&years=2017&compareBy=region https://tcdata360.worldbank.org/indicators/h3031de56?indicat... They are tied with Switzerland with the 27th lowest homicide rate in the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country,_region,_or_dependent_territory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Fair enough, but that's also a function of the fact that NL is a huge transshipment point and the gangs here try very hard to lay low to avoid attracting attention to their activities. Meanwhile, a dutch fruitcompany (https://www.bd.nl/bommelerwaard/fruithandel-de-groot-doelwit-van-criminelen-na-onderschepping-400-kilo-coke-afpersers-dreigden-met-liquidatie~a4e008e8/ https://www.bd.nl/bommelerwaard/fruithandel-de-groot-doelwit...) and its employees are attacked regularly because a load of drugs was caught in transit.
  - zqna 5y ago
    I'm afraid there is a tendency to underreport crime in Netherlands. Mainly because the police and legal system seem not to be very effective. So, the statistics can be misleading.
- jld89 5y ago
  > On a margin that far surpasses almost all other countries in the west. Which developed country doesn't it surpass? From what I've seen the Netherlands is well on the road to becoming today's Mexico.
tluyben2 5y ago
He did great work. Hope it won't scare off others. I have heard people mention this week that we live in Medellin (this was narco related), not Amsterdam. Over the top but this is sad.
einpoklum 5y ago
Gun homicide is 44 times less frequent in the Netherlands than in the US: 0.28 / 100K people, per annum in NL, compared to 12.21 in the USA. So, a person getting shot dead is much more of an extreme event in the Netherlands (even disregarding the particular circumstances). Statistic taken from here: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-death...
- esquire_900 5y ago
  * Gun homicide is 44 times less frequent in the Netherlands than in the US: 0.28 / 100K people, per annum in NL, compared to 12.21 in the USA. So, this is much more of an extreme event over there. > The extremity here is that Peter tried to publically persue heavy criminals, and the criminals just decided to play god and have him killed by some lowly guys (speculating here, but quite confidently). A large part of US/UK shooting statistic probably come from muggings, robberies etc., not the criminal underworld deciding they rule the country.
  - cronin101 5y ago
    Apologies for derailing slightly but it's strange that you lump UK in with US there, when the UK rate is even below the NL rate (and among the lowest in the world). The US is an extreme outlier in this regard.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - jeffbee 5y ago
    I don't know if that's true in the UK (and I doubt that coming up with "US/UK" crime statistics makes sense, considering the huge differences between the two countries) but in the USA according to the latest FBI statistics only 10% of homicide victims were killed by unknown assailants, and only 4% were killed in the course of a robbery. Being killed by a stranger in the US is relatively rare. A more significant source of murders is disputes among relatives and acquaintances. The biggest risk factor for becoming a homicide victim in the US is having social connections to known criminals.
s_dev 5y ago
Hopefully this has a 'Veronica Guerin' effect. An Irish crime reporter was killed for being too curious by drug bosses. The subsequent Garda investigation was so intense and far reaching that it's estimated the the drug operations lost huge money over the coming years -- the Irish state implemented news laws and even the creation of 'Criminal Assets Bureau' came from Veronicas death. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veronica_Guerin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veronica_Guerin
- spixy 5y ago
  Murder of journalist led to protests and resignation of prime minister and change of some part of government 2 years ago in Slovakia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_J%C3%A1n_Kuciak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_J%C3%A1n_Kuciak
- the-dude 5y ago
  As a Dutch citizen I am bit worried about what they will do to obtain an alternative income stream. I am not really harmed by the drug trade. I would be harmed by robberies on the street or in the home.
  - TheGigaChad 5y ago
    You have the dumbest take for 2021!
  - dannyw 5y ago
    Society is harmed by people who murder journalists.
    - the-dude 5y ago
      Doesn't compare to being robbed and or mugged. I live in a city center, this already happens on occasion very near to my home. I don't need more of it.
      - hyperbovine 5y ago
galfarragem 5y ago
Unfortunately is quite common[1]: 1972 journalists killed between 1992 and 2021. [1] https://cpj.org/data/killed/?status=Killed&motiveConfirmed%5B%5D=Confirmed&motiveUnconfirmed%5B%5D=Unconfirmed&type%5B%5D=Journalist&start_year=1992&end_year=2021&group_by=year https://cpj.org/data/killed/?status=Killed&motiveConfirmed%5...
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  Note that the number (1972) is worldwide, not just in the Netherlands.
timwaagh 5y ago
Too bad he did a lot of good things I believe. Those gangsters that shot him they are a phenomenon that's relatively new. Criminals did not previously go after lawyers or journalists. Now that has definitely changed.
- pelasaco 5y ago
  I'm not sure what you mean. I remember in 1997, the escape attempt with a helicopter from the Dutch prison, De Geerhorst. There was an accident, the pilot was killed and the Colombian prison escapee, who was serving a long-term sentence for drug trafficking, walked away with some injuries. In that time we all knew what was going on there.. Actually since years, you could spot the dark side of Amsterdam/Rotterdam while walking at night in the streets. In Germany what we mostly experienced were the ATM explosions in small German villages around the Dutch border..again the violence isn't new at all.
  - timwaagh 5y ago
    I didn't mean we never had violent criminals.. Just that liquidating journalists and lawyers doesn't fit their usual mo.
    - pelasaco 5y ago
      ah ok. Yes, that's how they act when they believe to be untouchable. I spent some years in South America and that's exactly what happens in countries like Brazil, Colombia and etc. I'm kind of apprehensive to see what the answer will be.
colmvp 5y ago
From another article (since I wasn't caught up to the affairs of the Netherlands): > Crime reporter de Vries acted as a spokesperson and non-legal advisor for crown witness Nabil B. who is testifying against Ridouan Taghi, the alleged mastermind of the Amsterdam-based group which is seen as one of the Netherlands' largest cocaine distributors. > Two people close to Nabil B. are already dead, allegedly murdered by Taghi's associates. In 2018, Nabil B.'s brother was murdered in broad daylight in Amsterdam and in 2019 his lawyer Derk Wiersum was gunned down outside his home. > De Vries' work exposing the underworld has resulted in repeated death threats. Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf, where de Vries started his career, says he investigated more than 500 murders. In 2019, the journalist said he was on Taghi's hitlist.
- elliekelly 5y ago
  I believe he’s also the journalist who got undercover footage of Joran van der Sloot admitting to murdering Natalee Holloway.
  - OrangeTux 5y ago
    Correct.
baybal2 5y ago
My message to the 20, 30, 40 years olds currently living their comfortable life in the West: You are currently enjoying what is an unprecedented apex of progress, wealth, security, and wellbeing of the Western society which only been there for a mere 40-30 years. On a reasonably modern historical scale, it's very uncommon not only for the West, but much of other countries in the world. It's hard for you to fathom a life other than this. You take it as something given, while it isn't. Bad times can come back.
- TheGigaChad 5y ago
  And what if you are wrong, idiot?
- draw_down 5y ago
  That ship has long sailed, my friend. At least in my country, with a high school education our parents could get a job that provided a decent life for a family on a single income. As I say, that is long gone.
- rowanG077 5y ago
  Indeed. I'm incredibly lucky to live in a western country in this time with low discrimnation, little sexism, low crime. I know war only from stories. If something hurts I can be in front of a doctor within an hour. I never have to be hungry. Really quite incredible what kind of life I can live.
  - Pyramus 5y ago
    I'm not sure why you and parent are being downvoted. In the grand scheme of things we do live in a time of almost uninterrupted peace in the West, and it is not at all clear that we are headed in that direction indefinitely. It is a valid point to argue that the shooting in question is part of a broader pictuer of an increase in violence across the world, including in Western countries (Malta, Slovakia and others), threatening the democratic principles.
- xyzelement 5y ago
  I don't know why you got down voted, because the point you're making is correct. Even having come from the USSR into the US as a kid, I can appreciate the contrast. The problem we have in the west is that we we talk about problems and tradeoffs in abstract. For example, many people who argue that it would be good to defund the police have never lived in a situation where daily life was dangerous due to crime. Similarly, people who argue against pipelines rarely have an understanding of what it's like when there's no fuel or heat in the winter. These issues are complex and there are two sides, but it does seem to me that the "hardship" side of the things is being under-valued and under-feared because it's outside of people's realm of experience.
draw_down 5y ago
He was a European white man so the idea of this being a hate crime (as the article says) won’t go anywhere. At least that’s how it works in my country.
ronnier 5y ago
This article has photos and media of the people involved https://www.thesun.ie/news/7263756/rapper-shooting-journalist-amsterdam/ https://www.thesun.ie/news/7263756/rapper-shooting-journalis...
- tiahura 5y ago
  It’s hard not to notice that these underworld actors don’t look like the archetypical Dutchman. It’s also my understanding that the Netherlands doesn’t have strong protections for free expression and discussion about this is not permitted. This would seem to create a social cognitive dissonance. Are there any mainstream voices suggesting that this is unsustainable?
  - elliekelly 5y ago
    Are you suggesting Dutch journalists are censored by the government?
- s9w 5y ago
  lmao HN panicking. Quick - flag him! He's hinting at the truth!
- erikpukinskis 5y ago
  Accused of being involved. I haven’t found any talk of evidence against this rapper. He’s a dark skinned man who was picked up by police in the vicinity of a crime. 9 times out of 10, people in that position had nothing to do with the crime. So I personally wouldn’t presume that person to be “involved” at this time.
idownvoted 5y ago
> We cannot and will not ever tolerate this in the Netherlands. This act of cowardice can't go unpunished. The Netherlands have turned into the European Version of a narco state: Clean streets without turf wars on the surface, but an increase of bought-off politicians and civil servants in the background, creeping into the foundations of the Dutch state. > I'm not worried about the drug trade [...] I'm worried what happens if they loose that income stream" That's why you have to worry about the drug trade in the first place. You've already lost the argument
adflux 5y ago
The Netherlands has a MAJOR drug problem, in the sense that a lot of the (synthetic) drugs used in Europe are produced here. This shooting is related to one influential criminal, Redoan Taghi, who has also ordered a hit on a lawyer (Derk Wiersum) and reportedly is trying to hire people to escape him from prison. Police are understaffed and seemingly really can't keep up. They make a lot of mistakes in the process, accidentally publishing the identity of key witnesses etc... Anyways, the "legal" drug system is broken to it's core. The way it currently works is that Marijuana can be bought legally at a coffeeshop, but it cannot be produced for sale legally. It is the best possible outcome for drug producing criminals, as they can access the largest possible resale market through the coffeeshops, so its easy to distribute big volume, and there is little competition (only from other criminals). I suspect this broken legal system is bankrolling these criminals and setting them up for the more profitable stuff such as cocaine.
- tluyben2 5y ago
  I am born and raised in the Netherlands and I have always been for full legalization of everything (as in: I should be able to buy whatever OTC from certified sources). I think the path they chose is not very good. Also it is unclear if full legal would work, but let's try it: war on drugs, in whatever way, seems to work no-where.
  - wil421 5y ago
    Not sure hardcore drugs should ever be OTC; cocaine, heroine, fentanyl and the like. Possession and use should be legal. It should be a healthcare issue. You go to some state run place, they give you the option of something to get you off drugs or the real thing. They provide a safe place and clean needles. You have to take some mandatory drug education on a weekly or monthly basis. They should offer all the support and information to help the ones that want to clean up. It should be state run. Private business should not profit off hardcore drugs ever. There will never be an incentive to get them clean.
    - tluyben2 5y ago
      I am not sure, but we tried most things and, at least in what I have seen in NL and after that in Spain, where you can get xtc, heroine and coke everywhere (not legal, but ish...), it does not breed more or worse addicts it seems. While where it is forbidden (US, AU and Asian countries), I trip over the addicts in the streets. In my view we tried all paths except full legalization for both consumption and trade. So full legalization with a lot of counseling (like in Portugal, my current residence) seems a good avenue to try out. In NL we already had (have? It was that way when I was young) The needles and the police checking dope quality at parties, why not go the extra mile? I am afraid this is not the good of the people but the money made from drugs somehow or is that too cynical?
aquir 5y ago
It's such a same, he's got such a cool name! His parents must have been huge Dune fans! (the book, from Frank Herbert)
- hvdijk 5y ago
  He is named Peter rather than Piter, Peter is a very common first name, De Vries is his father's last name, and he was born years before Dune was published.

220 points by _Microft 5y ago

In december 2016 another Dutch 'crime reporter' named Martin Kok was shot to dead. I put that inside parentheses, because that guy was a former criminal/murderer himself and his writing style was really bad (and therefor a joy to read). It was speculated about him that he 'reported' about the activities of a criminal group (basically cocaine traffickers) that was formerly operating stealthy (as in: that group was not in the spotlights of the press yet, it probably was on the radar of the police, I don't know). It was also speculated he got paid for this 'reporting' by another criminal group. It's all mocro mafia related. Comes down to access to the ports of Rotterdam and Antwerp. In 2012 a shipment of 200 kilos of coke went missing in Antwerp. A war broke out. If you are slightly interested in this real life crime stuff, definitely search for 'mocro mafia'. I can really recommend the book called 'Mocro Mafia' by Wouter Laumans (very good book, and it's central theme is around a young Moroccan boy who's frustrated with life and becomes a criminal, to eventually be used as a hitman, very sad read). These real life crime stories sometimes read like a movie script: - Beheadings? Check. - Bombs and rocket launchers? Check. - Executions in broad day light? Check. - Mistakenly killing the wrong people? Check. - Shooting with automatic rifles on police? Check. - Kids being hitmen for like 5.000 euro? Check. - Kidnappings? Check. - Attacks on press, laywers, mayors? Check. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Kok https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Kok

rambambram 5y ago
To clarify some things: what is called the 'mocro mafia' is mostly about cocaine import (but also bank robberies in nowadays mostly Germany). What The Netherlands are also famous for is the production of synthetic drugs. What I wrote about attacks on a mayor is said to be coming from that angle. I know, very broad generalization by calling this 'mocro mafia', I don't like that either.

rtz121 5y ago

The results of diversity.

neonate 5y ago

https://archive.is/4GT2z https://archive.is/4GT2z

jb1991 5y ago

This is a national tragedy for the Netherlands and hopefully a much-needed wake up call to the growing similarity between that country and a genuine narco state. Organized crime is completely out of control in the Netherlands. On a margin that far surpasses almost all other countries in the west.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
stiller 5y ago
According to the World Bank, The Netherlands are the 23rd country in the world with the lowest organized crime: https://tcdata360.worldbank.org/indicators/h3031de56?indicator=678&viz=choropleth&years=2017&compareBy=region https://tcdata360.worldbank.org/indicators/h3031de56?indicat... They are tied with Switzerland with the 27th lowest homicide rate in the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country,_region,_or_dependent_territory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Fair enough, but that's also a function of the fact that NL is a huge transshipment point and the gangs here try very hard to lay low to avoid attracting attention to their activities. Meanwhile, a dutch fruitcompany (https://www.bd.nl/bommelerwaard/fruithandel-de-groot-doelwit-van-criminelen-na-onderschepping-400-kilo-coke-afpersers-dreigden-met-liquidatie~a4e008e8/ https://www.bd.nl/bommelerwaard/fruithandel-de-groot-doelwit...) and its employees are attacked regularly because a load of drugs was caught in transit.
- zqna 5y ago
  I'm afraid there is a tendency to underreport crime in Netherlands. Mainly because the police and legal system seem not to be very effective. So, the statistics can be misleading.
jld89 5y ago
> On a margin that far surpasses almost all other countries in the west. Which developed country doesn't it surpass? From what I've seen the Netherlands is well on the road to becoming today's Mexico.

tluyben2 5y ago

He did great work. Hope it won't scare off others. I have heard people mention this week that we live in Medellin (this was narco related), not Amsterdam. Over the top but this is sad.

einpoklum 5y ago

Gun homicide is 44 times less frequent in the Netherlands than in the US: 0.28 / 100K people, per annum in NL, compared to 12.21 in the USA. So, a person getting shot dead is much more of an extreme event in the Netherlands (even disregarding the particular circumstances). Statistic taken from here: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-death...

esquire_900 5y ago
* Gun homicide is 44 times less frequent in the Netherlands than in the US: 0.28 / 100K people, per annum in NL, compared to 12.21 in the USA. So, this is much more of an extreme event over there. > The extremity here is that Peter tried to publically persue heavy criminals, and the criminals just decided to play god and have him killed by some lowly guys (speculating here, but quite confidently). A large part of US/UK shooting statistic probably come from muggings, robberies etc., not the criminal underworld deciding they rule the country.
- cronin101 5y ago
  Apologies for derailing slightly but it's strange that you lump UK in with US there, when the UK rate is even below the NL rate (and among the lowest in the world). The US is an extreme outlier in this regard.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- jeffbee 5y ago
  I don't know if that's true in the UK (and I doubt that coming up with "US/UK" crime statistics makes sense, considering the huge differences between the two countries) but in the USA according to the latest FBI statistics only 10% of homicide victims were killed by unknown assailants, and only 4% were killed in the course of a robbery. Being killed by a stranger in the US is relatively rare. A more significant source of murders is disputes among relatives and acquaintances. The biggest risk factor for becoming a homicide victim in the US is having social connections to known criminals.

s_dev 5y ago

Hopefully this has a 'Veronica Guerin' effect. An Irish crime reporter was killed for being too curious by drug bosses. The subsequent Garda investigation was so intense and far reaching that it's estimated the the drug operations lost huge money over the coming years -- the Irish state implemented news laws and even the creation of 'Criminal Assets Bureau' came from Veronicas death. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veronica_Guerin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veronica_Guerin

spixy 5y ago
Murder of journalist led to protests and resignation of prime minister and change of some part of government 2 years ago in Slovakia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_J%C3%A1n_Kuciak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_J%C3%A1n_Kuciak
the-dude 5y ago
As a Dutch citizen I am bit worried about what they will do to obtain an alternative income stream. I am not really harmed by the drug trade. I would be harmed by robberies on the street or in the home.
- TheGigaChad 5y ago
  You have the dumbest take for 2021!
- dannyw 5y ago
  Society is harmed by people who murder journalists.
  - the-dude 5y ago
    Doesn't compare to being robbed and or mugged. I live in a city center, this already happens on occasion very near to my home. I don't need more of it.
    - hyperbovine 5y ago

galfarragem 5y ago

Unfortunately is quite common[1]: 1972 journalists killed between 1992 and 2021. [1] https://cpj.org/data/killed/?status=Killed&motiveConfirmed%5B%5D=Confirmed&motiveUnconfirmed%5B%5D=Unconfirmed&type%5B%5D=Journalist&start_year=1992&end_year=2021&group_by=year https://cpj.org/data/killed/?status=Killed&motiveConfirmed%5...

AnimalMuppet 5y ago
Note that the number (1972) is worldwide, not just in the Netherlands.

timwaagh 5y ago

Too bad he did a lot of good things I believe. Those gangsters that shot him they are a phenomenon that's relatively new. Criminals did not previously go after lawyers or journalists. Now that has definitely changed.

pelasaco 5y ago
I'm not sure what you mean. I remember in 1997, the escape attempt with a helicopter from the Dutch prison, De Geerhorst. There was an accident, the pilot was killed and the Colombian prison escapee, who was serving a long-term sentence for drug trafficking, walked away with some injuries. In that time we all knew what was going on there.. Actually since years, you could spot the dark side of Amsterdam/Rotterdam while walking at night in the streets. In Germany what we mostly experienced were the ATM explosions in small German villages around the Dutch border..again the violence isn't new at all.
- timwaagh 5y ago
  I didn't mean we never had violent criminals.. Just that liquidating journalists and lawyers doesn't fit their usual mo.
  - pelasaco 5y ago
    ah ok. Yes, that's how they act when they believe to be untouchable. I spent some years in South America and that's exactly what happens in countries like Brazil, Colombia and etc. I'm kind of apprehensive to see what the answer will be.

colmvp 5y ago

From another article (since I wasn't caught up to the affairs of the Netherlands): > Crime reporter de Vries acted as a spokesperson and non-legal advisor for crown witness Nabil B. who is testifying against Ridouan Taghi, the alleged mastermind of the Amsterdam-based group which is seen as one of the Netherlands' largest cocaine distributors. > Two people close to Nabil B. are already dead, allegedly murdered by Taghi's associates. In 2018, Nabil B.'s brother was murdered in broad daylight in Amsterdam and in 2019 his lawyer Derk Wiersum was gunned down outside his home. > De Vries' work exposing the underworld has resulted in repeated death threats. Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf, where de Vries started his career, says he investigated more than 500 murders. In 2019, the journalist said he was on Taghi's hitlist.

elliekelly 5y ago
I believe he’s also the journalist who got undercover footage of Joran van der Sloot admitting to murdering Natalee Holloway.
- OrangeTux 5y ago
  Correct.

baybal2 5y ago

My message to the 20, 30, 40 years olds currently living their comfortable life in the West: You are currently enjoying what is an unprecedented apex of progress, wealth, security, and wellbeing of the Western society which only been there for a mere 40-30 years. On a reasonably modern historical scale, it's very uncommon not only for the West, but much of other countries in the world. It's hard for you to fathom a life other than this. You take it as something given, while it isn't. Bad times can come back.

TheGigaChad 5y ago
And what if you are wrong, idiot?
draw_down 5y ago
That ship has long sailed, my friend. At least in my country, with a high school education our parents could get a job that provided a decent life for a family on a single income. As I say, that is long gone.
rowanG077 5y ago
Indeed. I'm incredibly lucky to live in a western country in this time with low discrimnation, little sexism, low crime. I know war only from stories. If something hurts I can be in front of a doctor within an hour. I never have to be hungry. Really quite incredible what kind of life I can live.
- Pyramus 5y ago
  I'm not sure why you and parent are being downvoted. In the grand scheme of things we do live in a time of almost uninterrupted peace in the West, and it is not at all clear that we are headed in that direction indefinitely. It is a valid point to argue that the shooting in question is part of a broader pictuer of an increase in violence across the world, including in Western countries (Malta, Slovakia and others), threatening the democratic principles.
xyzelement 5y ago
I don't know why you got down voted, because the point you're making is correct. Even having come from the USSR into the US as a kid, I can appreciate the contrast. The problem we have in the west is that we we talk about problems and tradeoffs in abstract. For example, many people who argue that it would be good to defund the police have never lived in a situation where daily life was dangerous due to crime. Similarly, people who argue against pipelines rarely have an understanding of what it's like when there's no fuel or heat in the winter. These issues are complex and there are two sides, but it does seem to me that the "hardship" side of the things is being under-valued and under-feared because it's outside of people's realm of experience.

draw_down 5y ago

He was a European white man so the idea of this being a hate crime (as the article says) won’t go anywhere. At least that’s how it works in my country.

ronnier 5y ago

This article has photos and media of the people involved https://www.thesun.ie/news/7263756/rapper-shooting-journalist-amsterdam/ https://www.thesun.ie/news/7263756/rapper-shooting-journalis...

tiahura 5y ago
It’s hard not to notice that these underworld actors don’t look like the archetypical Dutchman. It’s also my understanding that the Netherlands doesn’t have strong protections for free expression and discussion about this is not permitted. This would seem to create a social cognitive dissonance. Are there any mainstream voices suggesting that this is unsustainable?
- elliekelly 5y ago
  Are you suggesting Dutch journalists are censored by the government?
s9w 5y ago
lmao HN panicking. Quick - flag him! He's hinting at the truth!
erikpukinskis 5y ago
Accused of being involved. I haven’t found any talk of evidence against this rapper. He’s a dark skinned man who was picked up by police in the vicinity of a crime. 9 times out of 10, people in that position had nothing to do with the crime. So I personally wouldn’t presume that person to be “involved” at this time.

idownvoted 5y ago

> We cannot and will not ever tolerate this in the Netherlands. This act of cowardice can't go unpunished. The Netherlands have turned into the European Version of a narco state: Clean streets without turf wars on the surface, but an increase of bought-off politicians and civil servants in the background, creeping into the foundations of the Dutch state. > I'm not worried about the drug trade [...] I'm worried what happens if they loose that income stream" That's why you have to worry about the drug trade in the first place. You've already lost the argument

adflux 5y ago

The Netherlands has a MAJOR drug problem, in the sense that a lot of the (synthetic) drugs used in Europe are produced here. This shooting is related to one influential criminal, Redoan Taghi, who has also ordered a hit on a lawyer (Derk Wiersum) and reportedly is trying to hire people to escape him from prison. Police are understaffed and seemingly really can't keep up. They make a lot of mistakes in the process, accidentally publishing the identity of key witnesses etc... Anyways, the "legal" drug system is broken to it's core. The way it currently works is that Marijuana can be bought legally at a coffeeshop, but it cannot be produced for sale legally. It is the best possible outcome for drug producing criminals, as they can access the largest possible resale market through the coffeeshops, so its easy to distribute big volume, and there is little competition (only from other criminals). I suspect this broken legal system is bankrolling these criminals and setting them up for the more profitable stuff such as cocaine.

tluyben2 5y ago
I am born and raised in the Netherlands and I have always been for full legalization of everything (as in: I should be able to buy whatever OTC from certified sources). I think the path they chose is not very good. Also it is unclear if full legal would work, but let's try it: war on drugs, in whatever way, seems to work no-where.
- wil421 5y ago
  Not sure hardcore drugs should ever be OTC; cocaine, heroine, fentanyl and the like. Possession and use should be legal. It should be a healthcare issue. You go to some state run place, they give you the option of something to get you off drugs or the real thing. They provide a safe place and clean needles. You have to take some mandatory drug education on a weekly or monthly basis. They should offer all the support and information to help the ones that want to clean up. It should be state run. Private business should not profit off hardcore drugs ever. There will never be an incentive to get them clean.
  - tluyben2 5y ago
    I am not sure, but we tried most things and, at least in what I have seen in NL and after that in Spain, where you can get xtc, heroine and coke everywhere (not legal, but ish...), it does not breed more or worse addicts it seems. While where it is forbidden (US, AU and Asian countries), I trip over the addicts in the streets. In my view we tried all paths except full legalization for both consumption and trade. So full legalization with a lot of counseling (like in Portugal, my current residence) seems a good avenue to try out. In NL we already had (have? It was that way when I was young) The needles and the police checking dope quality at parties, why not go the extra mile? I am afraid this is not the good of the people but the money made from drugs somehow or is that too cynical?

aquir 5y ago

It's such a same, he's got such a cool name! His parents must have been huge Dune fans! (the book, from Frank Herbert)

hvdijk 5y ago
He is named Peter rather than Piter, Peter is a very common first name, De Vries is his father's last name, and he was born years before Dune was published.