6 ms·

> Men get advised to donate blood to lower their risk of heart disease. I had never heard of that and did not find any article supporting that from a quick sea

> Men get advised to donate blood to lower their risk of heart disease. I had never heard of that and did not find any article supporting that from a quick search. I found observational studies concluding that men who donate blood are less at risk for heart attacks, but did not control for selection bias (men who choose to or can donate blood are healthier) or for causes associated with the blood donation (e.g. you might discover you have high blood pressure while donating and seek treatment afterwards).

DoreenMichele 5y ago
Quick and dirty search gets me a piece titled Health benefits of blood donation which says (in part): Studies have shown that, in general, Americans tend to consume more iron on a daily basis than is necessary for good health. Ingestion of quantities of iron beyond a certain quantity can promote formation of free radicals in the body. Free radicals have justly earned their reputation for causing cellular changes which can disrupt normal cell function and increase the risk of certain chronic diseases such as heart disease and cancer. This is more likely to be a problem for men and post menopausal women... https://medicalwesthospital.org/january-is-blood-donor-month.php https://medicalwesthospital.org/january-is-blood-donor-month... I'm American. If you aren't, that might be a factor.
- erispoe 5y ago
  The paragraph you quoted references (but does not cite) studies about the effect of excessive iron consumption, not evidence for a causal link from blood donation to reduced cardiovascular risks. It seems that there is some correlation between cardiovascular risk and blood donation, but this might just be due to a confounding factor: healthy people tend to donate blood more. E.g. this study [1]: Despite the significant difference in QRISK2 parameters between study groups, none of these parameters was correlated to the extent of donation when controlling for age, BMI and smoking status. Or this one [2]: No significant associations were found between blood donation and the risk of myocardial infarction in analyses restricted to men with hypercholesterolemia or those who never used antioxidant supplements or aspirin. The study results do not support the hypothesis that reduced body iron stores lower CHD risk. Ironically this other Dutch study [3], shows an association (not causal) between frequent blood donation and cardiovascular health in women but not in men. [1]: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28797569/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28797569/ [2]: https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.cir.103.1.52 https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.cir.103.1.52 [3]: https://heart.bmj.com/content/105/16/1260 https://heart.bmj.com/content/105/16/1260
  - DoreenMichele 5y ago
    My recollection is that the inference that men should donate blood to protect their heart health is based at least in part on the fact that women see an increase in heart disease around the time they stop menstruating: Once women reach the age of 50, about the age of natural menopause, their risk for heart disease increases dramatically. https://www.webmd.com/menopause/guide/menopause-heart-disease https://www.webmd.com/menopause/guide/menopause-heart-diseas...
    - glandium 5y ago
      How different is the increase of heart disease risk for men above 50?
      - DoreenMichele 5y ago
        A quick search indicates men actually see an increase after age 45. Some additional stats from the below source: The average lifetime risk of developing cardiovascular disease was around 52% for men and 39% for women. Lifetime risk jumped to 69% for men and 50% for women who had two or more cardiovascular risk factors by age 50. Lifetime risk was just 5% among men and 8% among women who had optimal risk factors for cardiovascular disease at age 50. https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news/20060206/how-great-is-your-heart-risk-at-50 https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news/20060206/how-great-...
    - pedrosorio 5y ago
      > Once women reach the age of 50, about the age of natural menopause, their risk for heart disease increases dramatically. Wouldn't the hormonal changes associated with menopause be a more likely explanation for the increase in heart disease risk than the fact they are no longer losing blood periodically?
      - DoreenMichele 5y ago
        The correct answer is probably "both" rather than only one or the other. It's humans that like to create simple explanations and clear cut categories, not nature. Nature gives us egg-laying mammals because nature didn't ask our opinion beforehand.
- hanniabu 5y ago
  Any thoughts on what Americans consume more of that gives them more iron?
  - ikr678 5y ago
    Aside from the obvious (meat, nuts), fortification of processed foods is more common in the US than other countires, and the FDA has some mandatory fortification rules. Breakfast cereals and flour are required to be fortified with iron, amongst other things.
TheSmiddy 5y ago
When I was diagnosed with high blood pressure I asked my doctor if I could donate more blood to lower it and she laughed and said your veins are not rigid pipes so it's not that easy.
- endisneigh 5y ago
  The doctor laughed at that? Even if wrong that’s a pretty intuitive thing to think. It’s a very reasonable question - as would the inverse (adding more blood to raise pressure).
  - frenchy 5y ago
    I doubt it was a "ha-ha you're a stupid idiot" laugh but more of the sort of laugh you'd do when a toddler does something that makes perfect common sense, but violates social norms (like discussing their bowel movements with strangers).
- darkerside 5y ago
  I hate when people laugh at good questions. It really fucking annoys me.
  - Engineering-MD 5y ago
    Depends how they laugh. You can laugh in a good natured way at what should be a logical step but weirdly isn’t because of a non-obvious component of a system. They are funny in a similar way to how a joke is- something about the sudden change in perspective but with an flaw in the logic. But you are right that you need to make it clear you aren’t laughing at them to avoid such confusion.
  - arcticfox 5y ago
    I see what you mean, but I probably would have laughed at that because it's a really clever solution, not out of scorn. I am guessing a doctor that has spent decade hearing about various blood pressure medications and treatment would have an instant of "That's funny, why can't we just empty them a bit?"
mrtnmcc 5y ago
One mechanism is the accumulation of excess iron, which can only be removed through bloodletting (e.g., menstruation). https://www.webmd.com/men/features/too-much-iron-in-your-blood https://www.webmd.com/men/features/too-much-iron-in-your-blo...
Causality1 5y ago
My wife is a phlebotomist. She often sees men who've been prescribed blood donation to control their iron levels. Unfortunately that blood has to be discarded because of the high iron level.
Abishek_Muthian 5y ago
Thanks for searching, I hope parent would be able to provide further details on that statement. I got O -ve so I maintained >45 Kgs weight(min required) so I could donate when needed but my bones couldn't take it (Osteoporosis, Achondroplasia) and so now I've reduced my weight to 40 Kgs; It was bummer to hear donating lowers risk of heart disease although I wish it was true as its a win-win for donating blood.
commandlinefan 5y ago
> I had never heard of that and did not find any article supporting that from a quick search It would be ironic if medieval doctors who "bled" patients to cure them had actually been on to something all this time.
- Engineering-MD 5y ago
  Known to be effective in haemochromatosis, but thankfully now replaced with a medication.

DoreenMichele 5y ago

Quick and dirty search gets me a piece titled Health benefits of blood donation which says (in part): Studies have shown that, in general, Americans tend to consume more iron on a daily basis than is necessary for good health. Ingestion of quantities of iron beyond a certain quantity can promote formation of free radicals in the body. Free radicals have justly earned their reputation for causing cellular changes which can disrupt normal cell function and increase the risk of certain chronic diseases such as heart disease and cancer. This is more likely to be a problem for men and post menopausal women... https://medicalwesthospital.org/january-is-blood-donor-month.php https://medicalwesthospital.org/january-is-blood-donor-month... I'm American. If you aren't, that might be a factor.

erispoe 5y ago
The paragraph you quoted references (but does not cite) studies about the effect of excessive iron consumption, not evidence for a causal link from blood donation to reduced cardiovascular risks. It seems that there is some correlation between cardiovascular risk and blood donation, but this might just be due to a confounding factor: healthy people tend to donate blood more. E.g. this study [1]: Despite the significant difference in QRISK2 parameters between study groups, none of these parameters was correlated to the extent of donation when controlling for age, BMI and smoking status. Or this one [2]: No significant associations were found between blood donation and the risk of myocardial infarction in analyses restricted to men with hypercholesterolemia or those who never used antioxidant supplements or aspirin. The study results do not support the hypothesis that reduced body iron stores lower CHD risk. Ironically this other Dutch study [3], shows an association (not causal) between frequent blood donation and cardiovascular health in women but not in men. [1]: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28797569/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28797569/ [2]: https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.cir.103.1.52 https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.cir.103.1.52 [3]: https://heart.bmj.com/content/105/16/1260 https://heart.bmj.com/content/105/16/1260
- DoreenMichele 5y ago
  My recollection is that the inference that men should donate blood to protect their heart health is based at least in part on the fact that women see an increase in heart disease around the time they stop menstruating: Once women reach the age of 50, about the age of natural menopause, their risk for heart disease increases dramatically. https://www.webmd.com/menopause/guide/menopause-heart-disease https://www.webmd.com/menopause/guide/menopause-heart-diseas...
  - glandium 5y ago
    How different is the increase of heart disease risk for men above 50?
    - DoreenMichele 5y ago
      A quick search indicates men actually see an increase after age 45. Some additional stats from the below source: The average lifetime risk of developing cardiovascular disease was around 52% for men and 39% for women. Lifetime risk jumped to 69% for men and 50% for women who had two or more cardiovascular risk factors by age 50. Lifetime risk was just 5% among men and 8% among women who had optimal risk factors for cardiovascular disease at age 50. https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news/20060206/how-great-is-your-heart-risk-at-50 https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news/20060206/how-great-...
  - pedrosorio 5y ago
    > Once women reach the age of 50, about the age of natural menopause, their risk for heart disease increases dramatically. Wouldn't the hormonal changes associated with menopause be a more likely explanation for the increase in heart disease risk than the fact they are no longer losing blood periodically?
    - DoreenMichele 5y ago
      The correct answer is probably "both" rather than only one or the other. It's humans that like to create simple explanations and clear cut categories, not nature. Nature gives us egg-laying mammals because nature didn't ask our opinion beforehand.
hanniabu 5y ago
Any thoughts on what Americans consume more of that gives them more iron?
- ikr678 5y ago
  Aside from the obvious (meat, nuts), fortification of processed foods is more common in the US than other countires, and the FDA has some mandatory fortification rules. Breakfast cereals and flour are required to be fortified with iron, amongst other things.

TheSmiddy 5y ago

When I was diagnosed with high blood pressure I asked my doctor if I could donate more blood to lower it and she laughed and said your veins are not rigid pipes so it's not that easy.

endisneigh 5y ago
The doctor laughed at that? Even if wrong that’s a pretty intuitive thing to think. It’s a very reasonable question - as would the inverse (adding more blood to raise pressure).
- frenchy 5y ago
  I doubt it was a "ha-ha you're a stupid idiot" laugh but more of the sort of laugh you'd do when a toddler does something that makes perfect common sense, but violates social norms (like discussing their bowel movements with strangers).
darkerside 5y ago
I hate when people laugh at good questions. It really fucking annoys me.
- Engineering-MD 5y ago
  Depends how they laugh. You can laugh in a good natured way at what should be a logical step but weirdly isn’t because of a non-obvious component of a system. They are funny in a similar way to how a joke is- something about the sudden change in perspective but with an flaw in the logic. But you are right that you need to make it clear you aren’t laughing at them to avoid such confusion.
- arcticfox 5y ago
  I see what you mean, but I probably would have laughed at that because it's a really clever solution, not out of scorn. I am guessing a doctor that has spent decade hearing about various blood pressure medications and treatment would have an instant of "That's funny, why can't we just empty them a bit?"

mrtnmcc 5y ago

One mechanism is the accumulation of excess iron, which can only be removed through bloodletting (e.g., menstruation). https://www.webmd.com/men/features/too-much-iron-in-your-blood https://www.webmd.com/men/features/too-much-iron-in-your-blo...

Causality1 5y ago

My wife is a phlebotomist. She often sees men who've been prescribed blood donation to control their iron levels. Unfortunately that blood has to be discarded because of the high iron level.

Abishek_Muthian 5y ago

Thanks for searching, I hope parent would be able to provide further details on that statement. I got O -ve so I maintained >45 Kgs weight(min required) so I could donate when needed but my bones couldn't take it (Osteoporosis, Achondroplasia) and so now I've reduced my weight to 40 Kgs; It was bummer to hear donating lowers risk of heart disease although I wish it was true as its a win-win for donating blood.

commandlinefan 5y ago

> I had never heard of that and did not find any article supporting that from a quick search It would be ironic if medieval doctors who "bled" patients to cure them had actually been on to something all this time.

Engineering-MD 5y ago
Known to be effective in haemochromatosis, but thankfully now replaced with a medication.