6 ms·

Can you imagine working at FB, which despite its considerable ethical failings, is a decent employer from what I've seen and suddenly being told you're going to

Can you imagine working at FB, which despite its considerable ethical failings, is a decent employer from what I've seen and suddenly being told you're going to Amazon and need to start memorizing The Principles?

MisterPea 5y ago
amazon subsidiaries still operate with their previous culture to some degree. Twitch is much different than the rest of amazon. However, since they will be merging into an existing org not sure if their culture will remain
- walrus01 5y ago
  I'm sure Amazon Corp HQ is taking a boiled frog approach to absorbing things like this.
- chrislan815 5y ago
  I heard they are still very much different from amazon after the merge which is good to hear. However, it was told by a hiring manager :) So it's not from my personal experience.
  - tmccrary55 5y ago
    It's going to be at least a year before the incoming FB team will be taking their vows.
  - TheHydroImpulse 5y ago
    still very different but amazon has its influences in many parts of the company now.
oh_sigh 5y ago
I've worked at Amazon and other FANG companies and I honestly miss amazon's leadership principles. They're really just assigning a phrase to a Good Idea (TM).
- teachrdan 5y ago
  I would have trouble with the blatant hypocrisy. To take an example from just yesterday, Amazon has internal documents that instruct managers to hide from employees when they're on a PIP. How can you reconcile that with "Strive to be Earth's Best Employer"? https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazon-tells-bosses-to-conceal-when-employees-are-on-a-performance-management-plan/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazon-tells-bo... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27786009 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27786009
  - tdowns 5y ago
    That LP didn't exist until after the article was published. There is some hope that it could be leveraged to remove that kind of guidance from mid-level leaders.
  - b3kart 5y ago
    There are probably better examples you could've used. They've literally added "Strive to be Earth's Best Employer" to the list of principles like yesterday. At the very least they seem to have recognized the problem, shouldn't we give them an opportunity to actually try to fix it?
  - imwillofficial 5y ago
    “Strive to be earth’s best employer” isn’t a leadership principle. - oh shit, it is now! My bad! And “instruct managers to hide from employees when they're on a PIP” This is not as clear cut. The document cited by Seattle times clearly states to not go into details of the Focus application, and instead go into how they can improve. A quote: “Do not discuss Focus with employees. Instead, tell the employee that their performance is not meeting expectations, the specific areas where they need to improve, and offer feedback and support to help them improve.”
    - teachrdan 5y ago
      “Do not discuss Focus with employees." I don't know how much more direct this could possibly be. The only time the policy allows managers to tell employees they're on a PIP is if the employee asks directly. That's literally hiding the truth as much as they possibly can without actually lying.
Kiro 5y ago
Landing a job at either Facebook or Amazon is an unachievable dream for most people so I have a hard time to feel sorry for anyone here. In their position they can get any job they want.
- Xeronate 5y ago
  What makes it unachievable? The process is very straightforward. Every friend of mine that wanted to work at FAANG has been able to and you really just need to spend a couple weeks/months practicing.
  - josephh 5y ago
    visa issue.
  - darkwizard42 5y ago
    The process is straightforward to become an Olympian too, you still don't see people doing it every day. You can run every damn day if you want, but I'll bet dollars it would still be difficult to run a sub 3:00 marathon for most people. Working at FAANG is easily regarded as one of the higher end jobs in the SWE world (from comp and prestige) and does generally require you to be in the top % of people who know how to code. That much is fairly indisputable so unachievable is a good way to put it for most folks (even if they are into programming already)
    - clownpenis_fart 5y ago
      good job parotting the propaganda about working in the advertisement webshit mines being considered a prestigious job
    - iooi 5y ago
      I think this is half the problem when people interview at FAANGs -- they think it's like preparing for olympics and you truly have to be in the top 1%. It's really not. There's thousands and thousands of engineers, from mediocre to truly great. With the right preparation, a lot of it just comes down to getting lucky with who interviews, how they're feeling that day, etc -- luck. You might find this interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8RxkpUvxK0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8RxkpUvxK0
sparrc 5y ago
perhaps they can dry their tears with hundred-dollar bills /s
birdyrooster 5y ago
This is America and if you are upper or middle casted, then Amazon will give you better accommodations and compensation. It’s comfy, don’t worry about those people.
- iooi 5y ago
  Is this a reference to Amazon being disproportionately Indian?
  - birdyrooster 5y ago
    America has a caste system too but we call it "class" typically to make it seem more meritocratic. In conversation we typically focus on the exceptional cases of economic mobility rather than the rule. I did use caste on purpose to draw the parallel to India, a place where Britain famously used the caste system to rule.
    - known 5y ago
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apples_and_oranges https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apples_and_oranges Caste != Class In America there is no system in place today that forces people to remain separate or keeps one Class subservient to another. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varna_(Hinduism) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varna_(Hinduism) If you were born the son of a street sweeper, but excelled, you would be fully accepted by your peers. Not so in India. The Caste system freezes everyone in place for their life time. For someone to move from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_caste https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_caste to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_caste https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_caste is denied. A Lower caste would never be allowed to marry Upper caste. https://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2013/01/16/why-honor-killings-happen/ https://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2013/01/16/why-honor-kil... And https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheduled_Castes_and_Scheduled_Tribes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheduled_Castes_and_Schedul... opening a restaurant or become a priest in a temple or become a member of high society in India is very rare indeed. Just 5% rapists are convicted/punished in India when the victim is 'Untouchable' as per https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Crime_Records_Bureau https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Crime_Records_Burea... A separate country to 300 million Untouchables in South Asia is the solution http://chng.it/kJphRWWBRr http://chng.it/kJphRWWBRr

MisterPea 5y ago

amazon subsidiaries still operate with their previous culture to some degree. Twitch is much different than the rest of amazon. However, since they will be merging into an existing org not sure if their culture will remain

walrus01 5y ago
I'm sure Amazon Corp HQ is taking a boiled frog approach to absorbing things like this.
chrislan815 5y ago
I heard they are still very much different from amazon after the merge which is good to hear. However, it was told by a hiring manager :) So it's not from my personal experience.
- tmccrary55 5y ago
  It's going to be at least a year before the incoming FB team will be taking their vows.
- TheHydroImpulse 5y ago
  still very different but amazon has its influences in many parts of the company now.

oh_sigh 5y ago

I've worked at Amazon and other FANG companies and I honestly miss amazon's leadership principles. They're really just assigning a phrase to a Good Idea (TM).

teachrdan 5y ago
I would have trouble with the blatant hypocrisy. To take an example from just yesterday, Amazon has internal documents that instruct managers to hide from employees when they're on a PIP. How can you reconcile that with "Strive to be Earth's Best Employer"? https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazon-tells-bosses-to-conceal-when-employees-are-on-a-performance-management-plan/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazon-tells-bo... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27786009 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27786009
- tdowns 5y ago
  That LP didn't exist until after the article was published. There is some hope that it could be leveraged to remove that kind of guidance from mid-level leaders.
- b3kart 5y ago
  There are probably better examples you could've used. They've literally added "Strive to be Earth's Best Employer" to the list of principles like yesterday. At the very least they seem to have recognized the problem, shouldn't we give them an opportunity to actually try to fix it?
- imwillofficial 5y ago
  “Strive to be earth’s best employer” isn’t a leadership principle. - oh shit, it is now! My bad! And “instruct managers to hide from employees when they're on a PIP” This is not as clear cut. The document cited by Seattle times clearly states to not go into details of the Focus application, and instead go into how they can improve. A quote: “Do not discuss Focus with employees. Instead, tell the employee that their performance is not meeting expectations, the specific areas where they need to improve, and offer feedback and support to help them improve.”
  - teachrdan 5y ago
    “Do not discuss Focus with employees." I don't know how much more direct this could possibly be. The only time the policy allows managers to tell employees they're on a PIP is if the employee asks directly. That's literally hiding the truth as much as they possibly can without actually lying.

Kiro 5y ago

Landing a job at either Facebook or Amazon is an unachievable dream for most people so I have a hard time to feel sorry for anyone here. In their position they can get any job they want.

Xeronate 5y ago
What makes it unachievable? The process is very straightforward. Every friend of mine that wanted to work at FAANG has been able to and you really just need to spend a couple weeks/months practicing.
- josephh 5y ago
  visa issue.
- darkwizard42 5y ago
  The process is straightforward to become an Olympian too, you still don't see people doing it every day. You can run every damn day if you want, but I'll bet dollars it would still be difficult to run a sub 3:00 marathon for most people. Working at FAANG is easily regarded as one of the higher end jobs in the SWE world (from comp and prestige) and does generally require you to be in the top % of people who know how to code. That much is fairly indisputable so unachievable is a good way to put it for most folks (even if they are into programming already)
  - clownpenis_fart 5y ago
    good job parotting the propaganda about working in the advertisement webshit mines being considered a prestigious job
  - iooi 5y ago
    I think this is half the problem when people interview at FAANGs -- they think it's like preparing for olympics and you truly have to be in the top 1%. It's really not. There's thousands and thousands of engineers, from mediocre to truly great. With the right preparation, a lot of it just comes down to getting lucky with who interviews, how they're feeling that day, etc -- luck. You might find this interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8RxkpUvxK0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8RxkpUvxK0

sparrc 5y ago

perhaps they can dry their tears with hundred-dollar bills /s

birdyrooster 5y ago

This is America and if you are upper or middle casted, then Amazon will give you better accommodations and compensation. It’s comfy, don’t worry about those people.

iooi 5y ago
Is this a reference to Amazon being disproportionately Indian?
- birdyrooster 5y ago
  America has a caste system too but we call it "class" typically to make it seem more meritocratic. In conversation we typically focus on the exceptional cases of economic mobility rather than the rule. I did use caste on purpose to draw the parallel to India, a place where Britain famously used the caste system to rule.
  - known 5y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apples_and_oranges https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apples_and_oranges Caste != Class In America there is no system in place today that forces people to remain separate or keeps one Class subservient to another. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varna_(Hinduism) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varna_(Hinduism) If you were born the son of a street sweeper, but excelled, you would be fully accepted by your peers. Not so in India. The Caste system freezes everyone in place for their life time. For someone to move from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_caste https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_caste to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_caste https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_caste is denied. A Lower caste would never be allowed to marry Upper caste. https://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2013/01/16/why-honor-killings-happen/ https://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2013/01/16/why-honor-kil... And https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheduled_Castes_and_Scheduled_Tribes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheduled_Castes_and_Schedul... opening a restaurant or become a priest in a temple or become a member of high society in India is very rare indeed. Just 5% rapists are convicted/punished in India when the victim is 'Untouchable' as per https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Crime_Records_Bureau https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Crime_Records_Burea... A separate country to 300 million Untouchables in South Asia is the solution http://chng.it/kJphRWWBRr http://chng.it/kJphRWWBRr