8 ms·

Data from Indian transactions should be stored and ideally even processed in India. This seems fair and reasonable to me.

zohch 5y ago
What makes it fair and reasonable and does whatever rationale you use here not open up the door to further nativism? I mean if it is fair and reasonable that Indian transactions should be stored and processed in India, is it not also fair and reasonable that goods sold in India should be made in India, that movies that show in India should be made in India, that all news consumed in India should be written in India? I get these are not the same, but what is the real difference here? Where does it become unreasonable in my examples and why?
- herbst 5y ago
  There is a huge difference to your other examples. The US does not actually have a good track record with protecting their customers with proper privacy laws.
  - thayne 5y ago
    I'm not sure what that has to do with this. There could be laws requiring that the data be kept secure and private without specifying that it has to be kept in a certain location. Besides which, India doesn't have a good track record of protecting privacy either.
    - herbst 5y ago
      True, but if it's not hosted under your own control it basically is fully out of your control. Doesn't the US gov / the 3 letter agencies basically have access to everything hosted within the US? Sure there are other ways, but India seems to like to go for the most radical solutions at times
      - NotEvil 5y ago
        US having access to indian date has limited impact on india while Indian govt having same data have major impact on india
        herbst 5y ago
        I don't disagree. It is dystopian, but so is a single country having access to the majority of the world's transactions.
      - Shorel 5y ago
        They also seem to have access to everything that goes through the submarine cables near their shores. So data is spied on just by being routed near them, it is not needed for them to be the destination.
- strategyanalyst 5y ago
  There is not a single country in the world where largest bank is not a bank based in that country. Like money, data is something sovereign nations want to control. EU, China and India all have areas where they want US based firms to store data in a specific way. This isn't changing anytime soon.
  - oblio 5y ago
    BCR and BRD, the largest Romanian banks, are owned by Austria and France. I'd be shocked if most big banks in Eastern Europe are owned locally. The opposite of what you're saying is true for almost every average or small country, economically.
- passivate 5y ago
  > is it not also fair and reasonable that goods sold in India should be made in India, that movies that show in India should be made in India, that all news consumed in India should be written in India? Of course, thats what every country wants, and they develop policies that give tax breaks or concessions to local businesses. That's why tariffs were enacted. I'm sorry, I don't really get your point, maybe you can restate it?
  - zohch 5y ago
    It was a question as evidenced by the question marks. Your answer, as far as I can discern, is that it "Of course" it is "fair and reasonable that goods sold in India should be made in India, that movies that show in India should be made in India, that all news consumed in India should be written in India." That's all there is to it, question asked, and answered.
thayne 5y ago
You think it is fair for companies to be required to run servers in every country they operate in? That seems pretty wasteful and inefficient to me.
- gpm 5y ago
  It's a billion person country. It might not make sense for every country to demand things like this, but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense for giant countries too, and it doesn't make it inefficient. At India's scale costs are already amortized anyways, but worse, consider India's physical location. It's surrounded by hostile nations (Myanmar, China, Pakistan, make a wall around it). To get data out of the country you're talking about moving it through hostile territory, or moving it through vulnerable subsea cables. Not only is the bandwidth probably more wasteful than the extra compute needed to spin up another set of servers to serve the billion people in India, but the network cannot be relied on to keep working during any sort of crisis. Luxembourg or whatever demanding all data processing happening internally would be meaningfully different. It's less than a million people to amortize over instead of more than a billion. It's next door to allies which the data could reasonably be stored and processed in, instead of isolated. But we're not talking about whether or not Luxembourg should demand this, we're talking about whether or not India should.
  - actuator 5y ago
    Afaik, Myanmar is not a hostile country. Neither the elected government nor the military dictatorship has animosity at the state level.
    - 0xcafecafe 5y ago
      Right now yes. However any neighboring country with a recent coup doesn't fill you with confidence.
    - gpm 5y ago
      To be honest I know next to nothing about Myanmar<->India relations. Everyone has been suggesting that the new Myanmar government is closely related to China, so I was substituting in the China<->India relations.
thunderbong 5y ago
Why does it matter where the data is located?
- sn41 5y ago
  It matters which jurisdiction can order the data to be decrypted.
spankalee 5y ago
There are 196 countries in the world.

zohch 5y ago

What makes it fair and reasonable and does whatever rationale you use here not open up the door to further nativism? I mean if it is fair and reasonable that Indian transactions should be stored and processed in India, is it not also fair and reasonable that goods sold in India should be made in India, that movies that show in India should be made in India, that all news consumed in India should be written in India? I get these are not the same, but what is the real difference here? Where does it become unreasonable in my examples and why?

herbst 5y ago
There is a huge difference to your other examples. The US does not actually have a good track record with protecting their customers with proper privacy laws.
- thayne 5y ago
  I'm not sure what that has to do with this. There could be laws requiring that the data be kept secure and private without specifying that it has to be kept in a certain location. Besides which, India doesn't have a good track record of protecting privacy either.
  - herbst 5y ago
    True, but if it's not hosted under your own control it basically is fully out of your control. Doesn't the US gov / the 3 letter agencies basically have access to everything hosted within the US? Sure there are other ways, but India seems to like to go for the most radical solutions at times
    - NotEvil 5y ago
      US having access to indian date has limited impact on india while Indian govt having same data have major impact on india
      - herbst 5y ago
        I don't disagree. It is dystopian, but so is a single country having access to the majority of the world's transactions.
    - Shorel 5y ago
      They also seem to have access to everything that goes through the submarine cables near their shores. So data is spied on just by being routed near them, it is not needed for them to be the destination.
strategyanalyst 5y ago
There is not a single country in the world where largest bank is not a bank based in that country. Like money, data is something sovereign nations want to control. EU, China and India all have areas where they want US based firms to store data in a specific way. This isn't changing anytime soon.
- oblio 5y ago
  BCR and BRD, the largest Romanian banks, are owned by Austria and France. I'd be shocked if most big banks in Eastern Europe are owned locally. The opposite of what you're saying is true for almost every average or small country, economically.
passivate 5y ago
> is it not also fair and reasonable that goods sold in India should be made in India, that movies that show in India should be made in India, that all news consumed in India should be written in India? Of course, thats what every country wants, and they develop policies that give tax breaks or concessions to local businesses. That's why tariffs were enacted. I'm sorry, I don't really get your point, maybe you can restate it?
- zohch 5y ago
  It was a question as evidenced by the question marks. Your answer, as far as I can discern, is that it "Of course" it is "fair and reasonable that goods sold in India should be made in India, that movies that show in India should be made in India, that all news consumed in India should be written in India." That's all there is to it, question asked, and answered.

thayne 5y ago

You think it is fair for companies to be required to run servers in every country they operate in? That seems pretty wasteful and inefficient to me.

gpm 5y ago
It's a billion person country. It might not make sense for every country to demand things like this, but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense for giant countries too, and it doesn't make it inefficient. At India's scale costs are already amortized anyways, but worse, consider India's physical location. It's surrounded by hostile nations (Myanmar, China, Pakistan, make a wall around it). To get data out of the country you're talking about moving it through hostile territory, or moving it through vulnerable subsea cables. Not only is the bandwidth probably more wasteful than the extra compute needed to spin up another set of servers to serve the billion people in India, but the network cannot be relied on to keep working during any sort of crisis. Luxembourg or whatever demanding all data processing happening internally would be meaningfully different. It's less than a million people to amortize over instead of more than a billion. It's next door to allies which the data could reasonably be stored and processed in, instead of isolated. But we're not talking about whether or not Luxembourg should demand this, we're talking about whether or not India should.
- actuator 5y ago
  Afaik, Myanmar is not a hostile country. Neither the elected government nor the military dictatorship has animosity at the state level.
  - 0xcafecafe 5y ago
    Right now yes. However any neighboring country with a recent coup doesn't fill you with confidence.
  - gpm 5y ago
    To be honest I know next to nothing about Myanmar<->India relations. Everyone has been suggesting that the new Myanmar government is closely related to China, so I was substituting in the China<->India relations.

thunderbong 5y ago

Why does it matter where the data is located?

sn41 5y ago
It matters which jurisdiction can order the data to be decrypted.

spankalee 5y ago

There are 196 countries in the world.