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I can't feel bad for them. I lived there for four years (at KAUST), I am deeply familiar with the country and its people. The Saudis are nice and well-intended
by moralestapia 5y ago
I can't feel bad for them.
I lived there for four years (at KAUST), I am deeply familiar with the country and its people. The Saudis are nice and well-intended, but a few bad apples spoil the bunch.
I left after my 4yo daughter was kidnapped(!) when I refused to sign some papers regarding my work situation. I am not making this up. The kidnapping was carried away by an Australian professor and a couple American guys working there, but when I tried to look for help I was horrified that this seemed to be business as usual and no one even batted an eye, no jurisdiction. Fortunately, we are safe now and doing better than ever, but, what a story.
Until they fix many of these things it will be very hard for them to establish a thriving economy.
- mensetmanusman 5y agoKAUST was pushed hard as an option while I was at MIT, very curious as to how well the instruments were maintained for research, since it seemed like they bought anything asked for (if you have any stories :)).
- moralestapia 5y agoOh, I can write a book about all of the things I saw there! Send me an email (check profile) and we can chat for sure.
- moltar 5y agoPlease do a podcast series. A great example of a successful one is about the fiasco of building a Berlin airport. If you don’t want to produce yourself maybe reach out to a podcast studio. I’d looove to listen to your stories :)
- moralestapia 5y agoThat would be very nice. I'm actually collecting stories about academic abuse from all around the world. The plan is to launch a website with all stories together to get more exposure. This sort of abuse (not to the degree of what I suffered, but) is quite common within academy, this needs to stop, and the people who perform it/enable it need to be ousted from their positions.
- mensetmanusman 5y agoCan you share a reference to the Berlin airport story? I have read about it, but am interested in listening to some accounts as well :) My heart still lives in Germany…
- moltar 5y agohttps://pca.st/podcast/10ed4dc0-fe54-0135-c260-7d73a919276a https://pca.st/podcast/10ed4dc0-fe54-0135-c260-7d73a919276a
- _Nat_ 5y ago> The kidnapping was carried away by an Australian professor and a couple American guys working there, Did charges ever get filed against the kidnappers? Like back in the US? And was the professor reported to their university?
- _Nat_ 5y agoLooks like a relevant law might be "18 U.S.C. §1203": * https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1203 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1203 * https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-11-hostage-taking-18-usc-1203 https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual... This seems to fit American-citizens holding your daughter, with threat to continue doing so, in order to compel you to do something (like sign a contract).
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- jaytaylor 5y agoYou kind of left us hanging there... How did you recover your daughter if the state doesn't care?
- gjs278 5y agomy guess is he signed the paper
- moralestapia 5y agoCalled my embassy (even though they told me not to, LOL). When things started to blow out, they realized it was not worth the trouble and they sent us back home. I have to say that we were never injured or anything like that, but still, ... wtf. Moral of the story: ALWAYS call your embassy first.
- fossuser 5y agoTwo Americans and an Australian carried it out? This seems like a wild newsworthy story.
- dboreham 5y agoAlso: become Liam Neeson upset.
- desertedisland 5y ago>If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career, skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my daughter go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you.
- sergiotapia 5y agoMoral of the story: do not visit a rotten country like that.
- deleted 5y ago
- hulahoof 5y agoThat is absolutely terrifying glad you are both safe and were able to leave.
- option 5y agoare you or your daughter US Citizens? What did the Department of State say about that?
- ping_pong 5y agoAmerican Dad has 2 episodes dedicated to showing that Saudi Arabia is the worst place in the world. Your story just reinforces that idea.
- iratewizard 5y agoYour view of the world should not come from the propaganda box. Unless you enjoy being manipulated.
- eloff 5y agoAre you saying there isn't informative content on tv? That's pretty obviously false. There's a lot of misinformation too, but I don't see how the internet is better there either. You need good critical thinking skills period.
- iratewizard 5y agoRight. They're isn't informative content on TV. There is infotainment and there is entertainment. Only a moron would base a world view around the low quality entertainment they kill time with.
- eloff 5y ago> Only a moron would base a world view around the low quality entertainment they kill time with. I think it's naive to assume it doesn't shape your world view in subtle ways, even if you understand it's a poor source of information.
- 0xdeadb00f 5y agoI think if you're getting your knowledge of world events from a goddamn Seth McFarlane show you're out of your mind.
- afuchs 5y agoMost westerner's views of Saudi Arabia are very much influenced by actions the country's government has previously taken [1]. It isn't so much propaganda, as much as it is the government, lead by MSB, taking actions that greatly offends our sensibilities, most notably the killing of Jamal Khashoggi among other smaller incidents and snafus which have made Saudi Arabia and MSB look horrible. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamal_Khashoggi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamal_Khashoggi
- nathanvanfleet 5y agoI don't really get how there is on one hand only a few bad apples but also kidnapping a child is business as usual within their society?
- throwawayamz27 5y agoThis is a good read on the topic (the author has been on a few podcasts also) https://www.amazon.com/Kidnap-Inside-Business-Anja-Shortland/dp/0198815476 https://www.amazon.com/Kidnap-Inside-Business-Anja-Shortland... TLDR: Its basically an efficient market in some countries, most people have kidnap insurance even though they dont know it (as their employer isnt allowed to diclose this insurance), the insurers know the criminals going rate, and can cut off their entire business if they break the "rules"
- moralestapia 5y agoOh, I want to clarify something as that's a delicate thing. With "business as usual", I did not meant stuff like child trafficking was going on, far from it. I meant to allude to the abusive work/life relationships that develop in a place like that, where people are isolated and there's no real supervision from competent authorities. It was like living in a big replica of a Stanford prison experiment, I plan to write about it sometime as it showed me plenty of things about how humans could behave when certain circumstances are met.
- michaelmrose 5y agoFrom the leaked diplomatic cables. “Donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide,” “More needs to be done since Saudi Arabia remains a critical financial support base for al-Qaeda, the Taliban, LeT, and other terrorist groups, including Hamas, which probably raise millions of dollars annually from Saudi sources.” It's fertile ground for raising money to support terrorism not because a few bad apples support but because it enjoys broad support. Although data is somewhat scarce a survey in 2003 found that 53% supported Bin Laden for example. https://icct.nl/app/uploads/2017/02/ICCT-Schmid-Muslim-Opinion-Polls-Jan2017-1.pdf https://icct.nl/app/uploads/2017/02/ICCT-Schmid-Muslim-Opini... Page 18 Which is probably why for example US made weapons have found their way via Saudi Arabia to al-Qaeda and ISIS linked groups. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/2/5/saudi-arabia-uae-gave-us-arms-to-al-qaeda-linked-groups-report https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/2/5/saudi-arabia-uae-gav... Basically the bad apples are in fact somewhere between a majority and a near majority and they control the country.
- nickik 5y ago> Which is probably why for example US made weapons have found their way via Saudi Arabia to al-Qaeda and ISIS linked groups. To be fair. The US does a whole lot of that itself. The US even helped to transport al-Qaeda troupes from Lybia to Syria. The DoD and CIA both had massive programs to push weapons into Syria, much of them ended up in Al Nusra and ISIS hands. This is also not new, the US used extremist groups in the 90s under Clinton in the balkan and to support the Chechens.
- mleonhard 5y agoSaudi Arabia has 60,000 slaves [0]. Their society is about 150 years behind the developed world. Once the world moves past fossil fuels, I expect Saudi Arabia to degenerate back into poverty. Their leaders are too ignorant or selfish to invest the country's wealth for long-term prosperity. Saudi Arabia could become a well-functioning oligarchy like Singapore. Unfortunately, the Saudi government has only offered investment and cheap office space and done little else. They should invest in: 1. Education for Saudi people: scholarships to study abroad, funding to open branches of foreign universities in Saudi Arabia, funding for many new international primary & secondary schools. 2. Brain drain: Education & scholarships for foreigners, good immigration processes with paths to citizenship, and equal rights for immigrants. 3. Healthy environment for business: Effective & fair legal system, good work visa processes, and effective worker protections. USA (my country) protects and supports the corrupt Saudi government. Therefore, USA bears some of the blame for the squandering of Saudi Arabia's natural resources. Many Saudi people, including the late Osama bin Laden, hate USA for this. [0] https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/2018/data/country-data/saudi-arabia/ https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/2018/data/country-data/sa...