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> Vastly, Deeply incorrect. Sorry to be trite, but can you provide any evidence that there are legitimate economies transacting in Bitcoin? As far as I can te

by hudon 5y ago

> Vastly, Deeply incorrect. Sorry to be trite, but can you provide any evidence that there are legitimate economies transacting in Bitcoin? As far as I can tell, Stephen is passionate because he recognizes various problems with Bitcoin: ecological damage, pyramid schemes, gambling, money laundering, ransomware, etc., and he doesn't see any actual economies benefitting from it that could overshadow all the negatives. Your comment seems to be more like gaslighting, trying to make him feel crazy while he's trying to make things right.

asah 5y ago
Let me google that for you: https://www.google.com/search?q=legitimate+uses+of+cryptocurrency https://www.google.com/search?q=legitimate+uses+of+cryptocur... example: https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/305859 https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/305859
- not2b 5y ago
  My top two hits were that one and an article about scams, your Google mileage may vary. Sorry, if you go through and read that article, it doesn't look good at all. No, cryptocurrency will not help us go green, just to single out the worst whopper. It was written in 2017 and suggests that payment using cryptocurrency for travel, online publication, etc will be widespread. Four years later, nope.
  - rchaves 5y ago
    Moreover cheapair, kickstarter, etc actually price in USD, not BTC, bitcoin may be the mean of transport but it’s not the coin being used. Not a “legitimate economy that transacts in bitcoin”
- hudon 5y ago
  You're moving the goalposts... The question is: do you have evidence of legitimate economies transacting in Bitcoin today? The question isn't about potential use cases, it's about data supporting the story that Bitcoin is actually used today to support the exchange of legitimate goods and services. Again, not links to white papers, ".io" startups, articles filled with "it is revolutionary" and such buzzwords, etc. The hype wagon is getting heavy. Where are the results? Where are the "Use of Bitcoin has been skyrocketing in X market" headlines, where X is not "ransomware"?
  - colesantiago 5y ago
    > The question is: do you have evidence of legitimate economies transacting in Bitcoin today? So Coinbase Commerce [0] enabling thousands of Shopify [1] stores to accept Bitcoin and the like isn't a legitimate use-case? [0] https://commerce.coinbase.com/ https://commerce.coinbase.com/ [1] https://help.shopify.com/en/manual/payments/alternative-payments/cryptocurrency https://help.shopify.com/en/manual/payments/alternative-paym...
rfd4sgmk8u 5y ago
There is this: https://www.reuters.com/technology/bitcoin-become-legal-tender-el-salvador-sept-7-2021-06-25/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/bitcoin-become-legal-tend... and many other examples. Stephen is just wrong here, like, 6+ years out of date wrong. His arguments hold no water today.
- hudon 5y ago
  You still haven't provided evidence of "legitimate economies transacting in Bitcoin". El Salvador accepting Bitcoin as legal tender in the future is not evidence that a legitimate economy has been transacting in Bitcoin in the past. One of the criticisms of Bitcoin is that skepticism is always answered with hype and promises, and you're kind of doing the same thing here... Where's the data backing up the success story?
  - kreetx 5y ago
    As I understand it, people in the developing world with high inflation are putting their money into crypto. Also, people with money to invest put it in crypto (both the "very rich", but also regular slightly more technical or otherwise inclined folk). Both of these aren't day to day transactions though.
    - nomdep 5y ago
      To escape inflation you buy dollars or even gold ingots, as always. Crypto is just a risky investment for that people, not savings.
      - kreetx 5y ago
        If the environment is unstable in some developing country, dollars and gold are inconvenient to hold, while crypto is both easy to own, easy to /really/ own and also fast to transfer. Risky, well I guess - especially in the short term. But long term it appears to have done very well.
deregulateMed 5y ago
USD is used for all the problems you mentioned. But at least Bitcoin didn't go through a 5.4% inflation this year. I'm sure people in Zimbabwe would rather try their luck with digital gold than trusting another government with another printable currency.
- jsnell 5y ago
  The average Zimbabwean earns on the order of USD 100/month. It should be pretty obvious they would have no utility for a "currency" where the transaction fee peaked at USD 63 this year.
  - deregulateMed 5y ago
    I use Bitcoin and there is 0 transaction fee. I keep spending money in layer 2.
- shawnb576 5y ago
  Right it didn’t go down 5.4% it went down 50. Inflation is a measure of buying power. The buying power of Bitcoin went down 30% in A DAY not long ago. Because of a tweet. I’ll take the USD, thanks. Also, how do you know what people of Zimbabwe think?
  - deregulateMed 5y ago
    DCA. Don't go all-in at all time highs. I don't even invest in stocks like that.

by hudon 5y ago

asah 5y ago

Let me google that for you: https://www.google.com/search?q=legitimate+uses+of+cryptocurrency https://www.google.com/search?q=legitimate+uses+of+cryptocur... example: https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/305859 https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/305859

not2b 5y ago
My top two hits were that one and an article about scams, your Google mileage may vary. Sorry, if you go through and read that article, it doesn't look good at all. No, cryptocurrency will not help us go green, just to single out the worst whopper. It was written in 2017 and suggests that payment using cryptocurrency for travel, online publication, etc will be widespread. Four years later, nope.
- rchaves 5y ago
  Moreover cheapair, kickstarter, etc actually price in USD, not BTC, bitcoin may be the mean of transport but it’s not the coin being used. Not a “legitimate economy that transacts in bitcoin”
hudon 5y ago
You're moving the goalposts... The question is: do you have evidence of legitimate economies transacting in Bitcoin today? The question isn't about potential use cases, it's about data supporting the story that Bitcoin is actually used today to support the exchange of legitimate goods and services. Again, not links to white papers, ".io" startups, articles filled with "it is revolutionary" and such buzzwords, etc. The hype wagon is getting heavy. Where are the results? Where are the "Use of Bitcoin has been skyrocketing in X market" headlines, where X is not "ransomware"?
- colesantiago 5y ago
  > The question is: do you have evidence of legitimate economies transacting in Bitcoin today? So Coinbase Commerce [0] enabling thousands of Shopify [1] stores to accept Bitcoin and the like isn't a legitimate use-case? [0] https://commerce.coinbase.com/ https://commerce.coinbase.com/ [1] https://help.shopify.com/en/manual/payments/alternative-payments/cryptocurrency https://help.shopify.com/en/manual/payments/alternative-paym...

rfd4sgmk8u 5y ago

There is this: https://www.reuters.com/technology/bitcoin-become-legal-tender-el-salvador-sept-7-2021-06-25/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/bitcoin-become-legal-tend... and many other examples. Stephen is just wrong here, like, 6+ years out of date wrong. His arguments hold no water today.

hudon 5y ago
You still haven't provided evidence of "legitimate economies transacting in Bitcoin". El Salvador accepting Bitcoin as legal tender in the future is not evidence that a legitimate economy has been transacting in Bitcoin in the past. One of the criticisms of Bitcoin is that skepticism is always answered with hype and promises, and you're kind of doing the same thing here... Where's the data backing up the success story?
- kreetx 5y ago
  As I understand it, people in the developing world with high inflation are putting their money into crypto. Also, people with money to invest put it in crypto (both the "very rich", but also regular slightly more technical or otherwise inclined folk). Both of these aren't day to day transactions though.
  - nomdep 5y ago
    To escape inflation you buy dollars or even gold ingots, as always. Crypto is just a risky investment for that people, not savings.
    - kreetx 5y ago
      If the environment is unstable in some developing country, dollars and gold are inconvenient to hold, while crypto is both easy to own, easy to /really/ own and also fast to transfer. Risky, well I guess - especially in the short term. But long term it appears to have done very well.

deregulateMed 5y ago

USD is used for all the problems you mentioned. But at least Bitcoin didn't go through a 5.4% inflation this year. I'm sure people in Zimbabwe would rather try their luck with digital gold than trusting another government with another printable currency.

jsnell 5y ago
The average Zimbabwean earns on the order of USD 100/month. It should be pretty obvious they would have no utility for a "currency" where the transaction fee peaked at USD 63 this year.
- deregulateMed 5y ago
  I use Bitcoin and there is 0 transaction fee. I keep spending money in layer 2.
shawnb576 5y ago
Right it didn’t go down 5.4% it went down 50. Inflation is a measure of buying power. The buying power of Bitcoin went down 30% in A DAY not long ago. Because of a tweet. I’ll take the USD, thanks. Also, how do you know what people of Zimbabwe think?
- deregulateMed 5y ago
  DCA. Don't go all-in at all time highs. I don't even invest in stocks like that.