5 ms·

As a reader of HN for several years now, it blows my mind how polarized we all are on this issue. Something smells here, you're not allowed to question anything

As a reader of HN for several years now, it blows my mind how polarized we all are on this issue. Something smells here, you're not allowed to question anything without being down voted to oblivion, one way or another. Why?

timr 5y ago
Covid discussion has become equivalent to politics. Most people have strong opinions on the matter, these opinions usually correlate strongly to their favorite political party's stance, and few people have the experience or knowledge to evaluate scientific information rationally. It's a recipe for uninformed debate. On top of that, in the US, the previous president was so politically polarizing that literally any statement he made was aggressively opposed by many people. A lot of SARS-CoV2 response got caught up in this dynamic. Wide segments of the population are simply misinformed of basic scientific facts, and slick charlatans (like the author of this article) twist information in subtle ways to scare people. Terrified people are naturally going to be more volatile, and this has been exploited throughout the last year and half.
- bamboozled 5y ago
  It certainly feels like hangover from the Trump times, and yes, it's insanely political and quite hysterical. Now, people overcompensate, if there is any questioning or hesitancy to take the vaccine, ask questions about origins etc you might be a...Trump guy, or a nut and so you need to be told by the Non-Trump guys what' up, by being downed. It's Kind of like Post-Trum-Stress-Disorder, PTSD. It's really quite fascinating.
  - timr 5y ago
    It's unfortunately pretty common for people adopt an "opposite of what That Guy said" stance on any particular issue. Obviously, taking a position that is the opposite of an illogical person makes you just as illogical, but it's much easier than thinking.
    - bamboozled 5y ago
      It also feels nice to be part of the "smart crowd". Also, let's face it, no one likes to lose karma :)
  - SZJX 5y ago
    Nah, many people especially those not in the US care far less about Trump than this is making out to be the case. Every country has its political spectrum, and the discussion easily being political or becoming attached to one’s political stance doesn’t necessarily have much to do with one particular politician.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- spookthesunset 5y ago
  > Covid discussion has become equivalent to politics It isn't equivalent, it is politics. In the end I suspect the last 15+ months will be a story of: 10% disease mitigation, 20% intellectual error, 30% media fear mongering and 40% politics.
specialp 5y ago
It is tribalism at work. Like if one takes a nuanced opinion and says "Maybe if loads of people are not dying and there's going to be no end to COVID, we should not lockdown again and again forever" You are then "them". The irrational COVID is a hoax, anti-vaxers, and get downvoted. Unfortunately well educated knowledgeable people are falling prey to this tribalism as well. I don't view a pandemic as at all political. There's a balance as to what amount of financial, social, and loss of liberty pain we should take versus the harm COVID 19 causes. And there should be a healthy debate about that, and opinions should change with statistics coming out and changing conditions. Meaning hardline anti-vaxers should probably soften up a bit as the vaccines have been shown to be extremely effective and safe and hardline lock down the world adherents should look at the dramatic drop in deaths and hospitalizations, and compare the risk of COVID with other risks we take in our life like driving.
- kuraudo 5y ago
  I think part of the problem people are having with the vaccines which have proven to be well-tested and safe is that there is already a non-insignificant portion of the populace that thinks most vaccines are unsafe by nature.
effie 5y ago
I've noticed this is not U.S. specific, so it is not a political polarization in the traditional sense. The broader world-wide phenomenon, visible also here, is that most people got divided into two camps: 1) "COVID-19 is so dangerous that we must restrict freedoms", "the other camp is a harm to society's health" 2) "COVID-19 is not that dangerous, mortality below 2% (or even lower depending on how it is calculated) and young and healthy people are safe from it, so we must preserve the freedoms", "the other camp is destroying democracy and freedoms". You can see this in U.S. and in Europe too. Camp 1) was right at the start of the pandemic when we had little knowledge and people were dying in large numbers. But as time advances, treatments and vaccines are developed, the narrative naturally shifts. Eventually Camp 2) will be seen as the correct one. Now we're somewhere in the middle it seems.
- yalogin 5y ago
  The way I see it, the camp 1 is at fault only if they are not revising their stance. Otherwise there is nothing to discuss and no two camps story at all. There is only one camp, camp 2.
- kuraudo 5y ago
  Your point is well taken: I want to argue with you that Camp 2 will never be seen as correct, but as I see restrictions lifted despite the large number of unvaccinated individuals which remain, I can't help but wonder if it will actually play out as you say.
- vladTheInhaler 5y ago
  There are a few issues here. 1) COVID-19 is not a static, singular disease. Now that it is circulating widely in the human population it has the potential to mutate, as it already has several times. SARS had a mortality rate on the order of 10%. MERS was above 30%. Part of the miscommunication seems to come from camp 2 assuming that things will largely continue as they are, while those remaining in camp 1 are saying "If we let this keep going, things could get much worse". 2) What about people who aren't healthy and young? Do we just permanently shut immunocompromised people out of society? 3) Developing a vaccine is not the same as actually getting the population vaccinated, as the last six months have demonstrated. Nobody in camp 1 wants society to stay locked down for its own sake. If 99% or even just 80% of the population was vaccinated, I think you would find a huge majority of camp 1 move to camp 2. Unfortunately the attitude of camp 2 has turned out to be the biggest obstacle to actually getting that done.

timr 5y ago

Covid discussion has become equivalent to politics. Most people have strong opinions on the matter, these opinions usually correlate strongly to their favorite political party's stance, and few people have the experience or knowledge to evaluate scientific information rationally. It's a recipe for uninformed debate. On top of that, in the US, the previous president was so politically polarizing that literally any statement he made was aggressively opposed by many people. A lot of SARS-CoV2 response got caught up in this dynamic. Wide segments of the population are simply misinformed of basic scientific facts, and slick charlatans (like the author of this article) twist information in subtle ways to scare people. Terrified people are naturally going to be more volatile, and this has been exploited throughout the last year and half.

bamboozled 5y ago
It certainly feels like hangover from the Trump times, and yes, it's insanely political and quite hysterical. Now, people overcompensate, if there is any questioning or hesitancy to take the vaccine, ask questions about origins etc you might be a...Trump guy, or a nut and so you need to be told by the Non-Trump guys what' up, by being downed. It's Kind of like Post-Trum-Stress-Disorder, PTSD. It's really quite fascinating.
- timr 5y ago
  It's unfortunately pretty common for people adopt an "opposite of what That Guy said" stance on any particular issue. Obviously, taking a position that is the opposite of an illogical person makes you just as illogical, but it's much easier than thinking.
  - bamboozled 5y ago
    It also feels nice to be part of the "smart crowd". Also, let's face it, no one likes to lose karma :)
- SZJX 5y ago
  Nah, many people especially those not in the US care far less about Trump than this is making out to be the case. Every country has its political spectrum, and the discussion easily being political or becoming attached to one’s political stance doesn’t necessarily have much to do with one particular politician.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
spookthesunset 5y ago
> Covid discussion has become equivalent to politics It isn't equivalent, it is politics. In the end I suspect the last 15+ months will be a story of: 10% disease mitigation, 20% intellectual error, 30% media fear mongering and 40% politics.

specialp 5y ago

It is tribalism at work. Like if one takes a nuanced opinion and says "Maybe if loads of people are not dying and there's going to be no end to COVID, we should not lockdown again and again forever" You are then "them". The irrational COVID is a hoax, anti-vaxers, and get downvoted. Unfortunately well educated knowledgeable people are falling prey to this tribalism as well. I don't view a pandemic as at all political. There's a balance as to what amount of financial, social, and loss of liberty pain we should take versus the harm COVID 19 causes. And there should be a healthy debate about that, and opinions should change with statistics coming out and changing conditions. Meaning hardline anti-vaxers should probably soften up a bit as the vaccines have been shown to be extremely effective and safe and hardline lock down the world adherents should look at the dramatic drop in deaths and hospitalizations, and compare the risk of COVID with other risks we take in our life like driving.

kuraudo 5y ago
I think part of the problem people are having with the vaccines which have proven to be well-tested and safe is that there is already a non-insignificant portion of the populace that thinks most vaccines are unsafe by nature.

effie 5y ago

I've noticed this is not U.S. specific, so it is not a political polarization in the traditional sense. The broader world-wide phenomenon, visible also here, is that most people got divided into two camps: 1) "COVID-19 is so dangerous that we must restrict freedoms", "the other camp is a harm to society's health" 2) "COVID-19 is not that dangerous, mortality below 2% (or even lower depending on how it is calculated) and young and healthy people are safe from it, so we must preserve the freedoms", "the other camp is destroying democracy and freedoms". You can see this in U.S. and in Europe too. Camp 1) was right at the start of the pandemic when we had little knowledge and people were dying in large numbers. But as time advances, treatments and vaccines are developed, the narrative naturally shifts. Eventually Camp 2) will be seen as the correct one. Now we're somewhere in the middle it seems.

yalogin 5y ago
The way I see it, the camp 1 is at fault only if they are not revising their stance. Otherwise there is nothing to discuss and no two camps story at all. There is only one camp, camp 2.
kuraudo 5y ago
Your point is well taken: I want to argue with you that Camp 2 will never be seen as correct, but as I see restrictions lifted despite the large number of unvaccinated individuals which remain, I can't help but wonder if it will actually play out as you say.
vladTheInhaler 5y ago
There are a few issues here. 1) COVID-19 is not a static, singular disease. Now that it is circulating widely in the human population it has the potential to mutate, as it already has several times. SARS had a mortality rate on the order of 10%. MERS was above 30%. Part of the miscommunication seems to come from camp 2 assuming that things will largely continue as they are, while those remaining in camp 1 are saying "If we let this keep going, things could get much worse". 2) What about people who aren't healthy and young? Do we just permanently shut immunocompromised people out of society? 3) Developing a vaccine is not the same as actually getting the population vaccinated, as the last six months have demonstrated. Nobody in camp 1 wants society to stay locked down for its own sake. If 99% or even just 80% of the population was vaccinated, I think you would find a huge majority of camp 1 move to camp 2. Unfortunately the attitude of camp 2 has turned out to be the biggest obstacle to actually getting that done.