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>because of terminology like this "Electrified Garage also notes that the cooling system doesn't get anywhere near as hot as an internal combustion engine, and

>because of terminology like this "Electrified Garage also notes that the cooling system doesn't get anywhere near as hot as an internal combustion engine, and it's not likely that it would either, given that the operating temperature for most lithium-ion batteries is well below 60 degrees Celsius." >So this repair is made on anecdotal observation of ideal conditions, and disregarding factory specifications, and actual Tesla trained technicians. The context here is not "they're half-assing it because the system demand are minimal so they can". It's "this repair technique works just fine on real automotive cooling systems that are much more demanding". >If this was your car, and this damaged was caused by someone else's fault, would you want a hack fix, or it fixed to the manufactures specification? He Broke Telsa's car. Why don't you just be honest and say "if money was not object because it wasn't your money"? That's all your hypothetical situation changes. Most people's answer is going to be along the lines of "sure I'll take a free battery but if the hose barb is functionally equivalent and gets me my car a week sooner than it'll depend on how badly I want the car back"

STRML 5y ago
These engineers are actual ex-Tesla technicians, so it's a bit more than half-assing it.
- lugged 5y ago
  Until it isn't. The attitude about this seems reminiscent of that cable snap in Italy recently. https://youtu.be/uCB1xbkn1Ps https://youtu.be/uCB1xbkn1Ps And I'm one that is for right to repair, I just don't think it holds up for the lease scenario, I expect my repairs to be done to manufacturers spec and would be concerned about any mechanic for any make making "half arsed" repairs.
  - ashtonkem 5y ago
    There’s a big gulf between “we’re using a common technique that’s regularly used in engines, even though it’s not OEM spec for this specific area” and “we’ve disabled an emergency safety system because it’s not working right”. Trying to equate the two is very disingenuous.
    - lugged 5y ago
      They didn't disable it because it wasn't working right. They disabled it because they thought they knew better and that the cable would never fail in the way they thought it would. Spoiler: it didn't. But: it did in a completely different way they were not aware was possible. I'm sorry you couldn't see the similarity. Obviously it is a less likely to cause ten deaths scenario, but how do you know it won't?
      - ashtonkem 5y ago
        Again, there is a difference between fixing a non-safety critical system in a non-spec but commonly used way, and completely disabling a safety system. If they were disabling this car’s airbags or ABS to solve a different issue, this would be a good comparison. But they’re just not the same at all.
  - michaelmrose 5y ago
    If a fitting exposed to road debris being damaged results in the only option being a 16000 repair the OEM should do it for free as penence for their incompetence.
  - toomanybeersies 5y ago
    Ever seen how they repair aircraft? To fix panel damage on jet airliners, instead of replacing half the skin, they usually just rivet a patch over the hole. Or in the case of the composite-skinned Boeing 787, they basically glue a patch over it [1]. Sometimes they don't even bother with that, and just tape it up instead [2]. [1] https://www.aviationpros.com/aircraft/commercial-airline/news/11196367/composite-aircraft-repair https://www.aviationpros.com/aircraft/commercial-airline/new... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_tape https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_tape
rdtwo 5y ago
Tesla’s own factories use all sorts of shoddy fixes. This is a legitimate fix that you could expect at any licensed mechanic and that Tesla would likely use it they had a parts shortage. Not every repair needs to be done with perfect oem replacement parts. Good luck getting an insurance company to cover 100% replacement during an accident for example.
- Meph504 5y ago
  Ok, So your argument is that someone at a Telsa factory did shady shit, so then the company should accept any third parties fixes? As far as the shoddy work, people keep acting like Telsa is a hivemind, and that every dept. in the company had signed off on these bad choices as a matter of corporate policy. Doesn't seem far more likely somebody working in the factory was worried about making quota, and did a very shitty job? And as far as the "Not every repair needs to be done with perfect oem replacement parts." I agree, but that should be the owner of the car's choice, and in this case the car is owned by Telsa.
  - cheaprentalyeti 5y ago
    >As far as the shoddy work, people keep acting like Telsa is a hivemind, and that every dept. in the company had signed off on these bad choices as a matter of corporate policy. Doesn't seem far more likely somebody working in the factory was worried about making quota, and did a very shitty job? "You shouldn't have the right to make shitty choices! That's the Big Corporations' prerogative!"
Meph504 5y ago
> The context here is not "they're half-assing it because the system demand are minimal so they can". It's "this repair technique works just fine on real automotive cooling systems that are much more demanding". Firstly, using a tap to reverse thread into plastic housing, and then using brass threading into the housing and into a cut hose with a screw clamps. Internal combustion or not, its hackish, the article even recognizes that, and their defense is that some people in Tesla's factory shipped some cars with fake bits of wood from home depot. You don't put metal threads into plastic in something that is exposed to vibration, in this fix they do it 4 times, it might work, for a while, but it isn't a good long term solution. It's not a hypothetical, it happens literally every single day, I spend my youth working in a car shop, and people expect their cars to be fixed the way they where made, and even more so when someone else damaged it, and they (or their insurance company) are financially responsible. It would be foolish for Tesla to allow this, they will likely want to sell that car after the fact, and I doubt they want to take on the liability of selling that car, that had this sort of hackish work done to it. Also, I don't know where you reference for "Most people's answer is going to be..." but it wasn't my experience when working in a shop, so on that we can agree to disagree. At the end of the day, he signed a lease, and agreed to the terms, those terms include how this maintenance and repair should be handled. Right to repair isn't going to change those terms, even more so when he isn't the owner of the vehicle. If anything we should take away, is that leasing cars is stupid, on many levels, and this just high lights another one.
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  > Internal combustion or not, its hackish, the article even recognizes that, and their defense is that some people in Tesla's factory shipped some cars with fake bits of wood from home depot. It recognizes that someone might want to call it hackish, and effectively says "don't even start". That's not an agreement that it actually is hackish.
- userbinator 5y ago
  I think the word "hackish" really has a positive connotation here. (Look at the name of this site...) You don't put metal threads into plastic in something that is exposed to vibration ...have you seen how a lot of modern internal combustion engines --- which vibrate a lot more than an EV --- are put together?
Sebb767 5y ago
> Most people's answer is going to be along the lines of "sure I'll take a free battery but if the hose barb is functionally equivalent and gets me my car a week sooner than it'll depend on how badly I want the car back" No. That solution might be acceptable if the alternative is spending 15k$, but if money is not a factor, I bet anyone would take a manufacturer approved replacement over "some screwed in thingy that's probably within temperature range" just to get out of your rental a week early.

STRML 5y ago

These engineers are actual ex-Tesla technicians, so it's a bit more than half-assing it.

lugged 5y ago
Until it isn't. The attitude about this seems reminiscent of that cable snap in Italy recently. https://youtu.be/uCB1xbkn1Ps https://youtu.be/uCB1xbkn1Ps And I'm one that is for right to repair, I just don't think it holds up for the lease scenario, I expect my repairs to be done to manufacturers spec and would be concerned about any mechanic for any make making "half arsed" repairs.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  There’s a big gulf between “we’re using a common technique that’s regularly used in engines, even though it’s not OEM spec for this specific area” and “we’ve disabled an emergency safety system because it’s not working right”. Trying to equate the two is very disingenuous.
  - lugged 5y ago
    They didn't disable it because it wasn't working right. They disabled it because they thought they knew better and that the cable would never fail in the way they thought it would. Spoiler: it didn't. But: it did in a completely different way they were not aware was possible. I'm sorry you couldn't see the similarity. Obviously it is a less likely to cause ten deaths scenario, but how do you know it won't?
    - ashtonkem 5y ago
      Again, there is a difference between fixing a non-safety critical system in a non-spec but commonly used way, and completely disabling a safety system. If they were disabling this car’s airbags or ABS to solve a different issue, this would be a good comparison. But they’re just not the same at all.
- michaelmrose 5y ago
  If a fitting exposed to road debris being damaged results in the only option being a 16000 repair the OEM should do it for free as penence for their incompetence.
- toomanybeersies 5y ago
  Ever seen how they repair aircraft? To fix panel damage on jet airliners, instead of replacing half the skin, they usually just rivet a patch over the hole. Or in the case of the composite-skinned Boeing 787, they basically glue a patch over it [1]. Sometimes they don't even bother with that, and just tape it up instead [2]. [1] https://www.aviationpros.com/aircraft/commercial-airline/news/11196367/composite-aircraft-repair https://www.aviationpros.com/aircraft/commercial-airline/new... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_tape https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_tape

rdtwo 5y ago

Tesla’s own factories use all sorts of shoddy fixes. This is a legitimate fix that you could expect at any licensed mechanic and that Tesla would likely use it they had a parts shortage. Not every repair needs to be done with perfect oem replacement parts. Good luck getting an insurance company to cover 100% replacement during an accident for example.

Meph504 5y ago
Ok, So your argument is that someone at a Telsa factory did shady shit, so then the company should accept any third parties fixes? As far as the shoddy work, people keep acting like Telsa is a hivemind, and that every dept. in the company had signed off on these bad choices as a matter of corporate policy. Doesn't seem far more likely somebody working in the factory was worried about making quota, and did a very shitty job? And as far as the "Not every repair needs to be done with perfect oem replacement parts." I agree, but that should be the owner of the car's choice, and in this case the car is owned by Telsa.
- cheaprentalyeti 5y ago
  >As far as the shoddy work, people keep acting like Telsa is a hivemind, and that every dept. in the company had signed off on these bad choices as a matter of corporate policy. Doesn't seem far more likely somebody working in the factory was worried about making quota, and did a very shitty job? "You shouldn't have the right to make shitty choices! That's the Big Corporations' prerogative!"

Meph504 5y ago

> The context here is not "they're half-assing it because the system demand are minimal so they can". It's "this repair technique works just fine on real automotive cooling systems that are much more demanding". Firstly, using a tap to reverse thread into plastic housing, and then using brass threading into the housing and into a cut hose with a screw clamps. Internal combustion or not, its hackish, the article even recognizes that, and their defense is that some people in Tesla's factory shipped some cars with fake bits of wood from home depot. You don't put metal threads into plastic in something that is exposed to vibration, in this fix they do it 4 times, it might work, for a while, but it isn't a good long term solution. It's not a hypothetical, it happens literally every single day, I spend my youth working in a car shop, and people expect their cars to be fixed the way they where made, and even more so when someone else damaged it, and they (or their insurance company) are financially responsible. It would be foolish for Tesla to allow this, they will likely want to sell that car after the fact, and I doubt they want to take on the liability of selling that car, that had this sort of hackish work done to it. Also, I don't know where you reference for "Most people's answer is going to be..." but it wasn't my experience when working in a shop, so on that we can agree to disagree. At the end of the day, he signed a lease, and agreed to the terms, those terms include how this maintenance and repair should be handled. Right to repair isn't going to change those terms, even more so when he isn't the owner of the vehicle. If anything we should take away, is that leasing cars is stupid, on many levels, and this just high lights another one.

Dylan16807 5y ago
> Internal combustion or not, its hackish, the article even recognizes that, and their defense is that some people in Tesla's factory shipped some cars with fake bits of wood from home depot. It recognizes that someone might want to call it hackish, and effectively says "don't even start". That's not an agreement that it actually is hackish.
userbinator 5y ago
I think the word "hackish" really has a positive connotation here. (Look at the name of this site...) You don't put metal threads into plastic in something that is exposed to vibration ...have you seen how a lot of modern internal combustion engines --- which vibrate a lot more than an EV --- are put together?

Sebb767 5y ago

> Most people's answer is going to be along the lines of "sure I'll take a free battery but if the hose barb is functionally equivalent and gets me my car a week sooner than it'll depend on how badly I want the car back" No. That solution might be acceptable if the alternative is spending 15k$, but if money is not a factor, I bet anyone would take a manufacturer approved replacement over "some screwed in thingy that's probably within temperature range" just to get out of your rental a week early.