6 ms·

LIDAR cost is coming down, but Tesla has almost no margins on cars. So adding a $500 part per car for LIDAR is out of the question. Even the cheap radar parts w

LIDAR cost is coming down, but Tesla has almost no margins on cars. So adding a $500 part per car for LIDAR is out of the question. Even the cheap radar parts were removed from production going forward. However, it's good to see other automakers like Volvo going the LIDAR route on their 2022 electric models and are offering Level3 autonomous driving.

Invictus0 5y ago
Tesla's Full Self Driving package was between 8 and 10,000 dollars per vehicle. That should cover it.
- CyanLite2 5y ago
  The hardware suite is the same on every car nowadays. They want FSD to be a downloadable app like a subscription. Which means you would have to put LIDAR on every car even if it didn't convert to FSD. Also, Elon has gone on Twitter rants several times before against LIDAR. That horse has already left the stable and it ain't coming back.
  - sbierwagen 5y ago
    >They want FSD to be a downloadable app like a subscription. Well that's just too bad. While I'm sure it would be inconvenient to their business plan, it remains the case that they're charging ten grand for that software patch, and have no possible argument relating to margin.
Method-X 5y ago
Tesla’s margin on the Model 3 is 35%: https://thenextavenue.com/2020/06/10/teslas-model-3-profit-margin-is-35-and-it-can-double/ https://thenextavenue.com/2020/06/10/teslas-model-3-profit-m...
- CyanLite2 5y ago
  It's not that high once you strip out the bitcoin gains and regulatory credits. https://archive.is/WAvau https://archive.is/WAvau
  - TheParkShark 5y ago
    Actually BTC gains don’t count, only losses do. They will take a minor hit on their earnings coming up but will still made record revenue and profit, so like Method-X claimed - Tesla has good margins.
raisedbyninjas 5y ago
They currently charge $10k for FSD. Even if they don't drop any of their cameras and processing equipment, $500 LIDAR is a 5% increase. Is it just me or are we politely ignoring Musk's reluctance to admit his bold proclamations against LIDAR are the biggest factor in their design decisions.
- TheParkShark 5y ago
  Andrej Karpathy already explained they were getting too much noise from Radar. Adding LIDAR would only complicated it. Unless you have better knowledge than Andrej Karpathy, I’ll go with his word on this. Edit: nitrogen I can’t comment directly on yours, so I’ll ass it here. That’s a good goal to have and they tried that for well over two years. They found too much noise and confusion. If Radar says one thing and Vision says another over and over who do you trust? They decided they could train their NN with just Vision. They use LIDAR on test cars to confirm their Vision can recognize distances correctly. In this case I believe cutting out a sensor instead of trying to neuter it is the right decision.
  - nitrogen 5y ago
    Isn't the basic goal of sensory fusion to be able to use each sensor to the extent that it's good, and ignore it to the extent that it's bad?
  - qeternity 5y ago
    Karpathy is the guy responsible for the results we see in these videos. Why would you trust his word about any of this?
  - sbierwagen 5y ago
    Andrej works for Tesla, so yes, I don't believe him. If he contradicted his boss in public, Musk would just fire him and hire someone who will repeat the party line. I won't believe anything he says about lidar until he's no longer at Tesla, or until they have a car that's not trying to ram concrete pillars.
    - 5y ago
pjc50 5y ago
This seems backwards; it's a premium feature, the sort everyone else is adding to increase margins.
nullc 5y ago
Teslas' margins are several times larger than other automakers ... but the company valuation isn't particularly justified even at the current high margins.

Invictus0 5y ago

Tesla's Full Self Driving package was between 8 and 10,000 dollars per vehicle. That should cover it.

CyanLite2 5y ago
The hardware suite is the same on every car nowadays. They want FSD to be a downloadable app like a subscription. Which means you would have to put LIDAR on every car even if it didn't convert to FSD. Also, Elon has gone on Twitter rants several times before against LIDAR. That horse has already left the stable and it ain't coming back.
- sbierwagen 5y ago
  >They want FSD to be a downloadable app like a subscription. Well that's just too bad. While I'm sure it would be inconvenient to their business plan, it remains the case that they're charging ten grand for that software patch, and have no possible argument relating to margin.

Method-X 5y ago

Tesla’s margin on the Model 3 is 35%: https://thenextavenue.com/2020/06/10/teslas-model-3-profit-margin-is-35-and-it-can-double/ https://thenextavenue.com/2020/06/10/teslas-model-3-profit-m...

CyanLite2 5y ago
It's not that high once you strip out the bitcoin gains and regulatory credits. https://archive.is/WAvau https://archive.is/WAvau
- TheParkShark 5y ago
  Actually BTC gains don’t count, only losses do. They will take a minor hit on their earnings coming up but will still made record revenue and profit, so like Method-X claimed - Tesla has good margins.

raisedbyninjas 5y ago

They currently charge $10k for FSD. Even if they don't drop any of their cameras and processing equipment, $500 LIDAR is a 5% increase. Is it just me or are we politely ignoring Musk's reluctance to admit his bold proclamations against LIDAR are the biggest factor in their design decisions.

TheParkShark 5y ago
Andrej Karpathy already explained they were getting too much noise from Radar. Adding LIDAR would only complicated it. Unless you have better knowledge than Andrej Karpathy, I’ll go with his word on this. Edit: nitrogen I can’t comment directly on yours, so I’ll ass it here. That’s a good goal to have and they tried that for well over two years. They found too much noise and confusion. If Radar says one thing and Vision says another over and over who do you trust? They decided they could train their NN with just Vision. They use LIDAR on test cars to confirm their Vision can recognize distances correctly. In this case I believe cutting out a sensor instead of trying to neuter it is the right decision.
- nitrogen 5y ago
  Isn't the basic goal of sensory fusion to be able to use each sensor to the extent that it's good, and ignore it to the extent that it's bad?
- qeternity 5y ago
  Karpathy is the guy responsible for the results we see in these videos. Why would you trust his word about any of this?
- sbierwagen 5y ago
  Andrej works for Tesla, so yes, I don't believe him. If he contradicted his boss in public, Musk would just fire him and hire someone who will repeat the party line. I won't believe anything he says about lidar until he's no longer at Tesla, or until they have a car that's not trying to ram concrete pillars.
  - 5y ago

pjc50 5y ago

This seems backwards; it's a premium feature, the sort everyone else is adding to increase margins.

nullc 5y ago

Teslas' margins are several times larger than other automakers ... but the company valuation isn't particularly justified even at the current high margins.