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I'm not sure about you, but the more experienced I am, as a developer or "builder", the smaller things I end up making. For instance, I launched a bunch of gam

I'm not sure about you, but the more experienced I am, as a developer or "builder", the smaller things I end up making. For instance, I launched a bunch of games that are, frankly, more fun to watch, than to play (e.g. an All-hands meeting simulator: https://rafsters.itch.io/all-hands https://rafsters.itch.io/all-hands) or little tools this one https://sonnet.io/posts/reactive-hole/ https://sonnet.io/posts/reactive-hole/ (it's stupid, completely replaceable, but somewhat adorable). I come from a family with 4 generations of carpenters. It's a profession more similar to software engineering that most engineering jobs I can think of. The main difference is that in our domain so often the results of our work just don't feel real. If you're in this situation and this frustrates you, either build something small that people would use OR go ahead build something useless, but intentionally.

ehnto 5y ago
> an All-hands meeting simulator: Ha! Fantastic. > I come from a family with 4 generations of carpenters. It's a profession more similar to software engineering that most engineering jobs I can think of. The main difference is that in our domain so often the results of our work just don't feel real. That is the core issue I have with software development, it can feel ephemeral and extremely temporary. My remediation for this is partially game development too, since the artifact you create is immersive and directly enjoyed by others, it can make you feel surprisingly connected to the world.
- spoonjim 5y ago
  It sucks how temporary software is, especially Web software. If you don’t pay the hosting bill it’s gone. If you don’t upgrade to 64 but it’s useless. Essentially it’s a plate spinning on a stick and it needs constant attention to survive. Contrast that to a fine piece of furniture which barring fire or flood can just sit abandoned in a warehouse for 300 years and then be even more valuable than it was initially.
  - nicoburns 5y ago
    Thw flip side being that once built you can potentially reach thousands if not millions of people with your project.
    - geoduck14 5y ago
      Are you describing a toilet seat at the airport?
  - fossuser 5y ago
    This is some of the appeal of urbit to me: https://moronlab.blogspot.com/2010/01/urbit-functional-programming-from.html https://moronlab.blogspot.com/2010/01/urbit-functional-progr... That blog post is old, urbit does exist now.
    - hytdstd 5y ago
      This article is extremely long-winded. Do you mind providing a summary of what exactly appeals to you? Also: Is "C. Guy Yarvin" Curtis Yarvin?
      - Matticus_Rex 5y ago
        > Also: Is "C. Guy Yarvin" Curtis Yarvin? Yeah, Urbit was Yarvin's project until 2019 when he left the company.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - fossuser 5y ago
        Core idea is how can you design a software system that avoids the pitfalls of spinning plate on a stick that requires constant maintenance as the world shifts around it, 'the big ball of mud'. One way to do this is to design a system where all events of the system can be replayed from start to finish in an immutable/repeatable way. Taking the advantages of state guarantees from functional language design and applying something similar to an entire OS. You can design something that abstracts this general design away from specific implementations of pieces that interact with the underlying system today (*nix). This podcast doesn't a decent job of introducing some of the concepts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/understanding-urbit/id1504188804 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/understanding-urbit/id... It's a little hard to summarize in a really short comment because there's a lot of new/first principles thinking that doesn't analogize super cleanly to the existing software stack people are familiar with (which is why it's interesting). Yeah that's Curtis Yarvin, I think his neo-reactionary politics are wrong [0], but the design and ideas behind urbit are good (and he's no longer directly involved in the project). [0]: https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/10/20/the-anti-reactionary-faq/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/10/20/the-anti-reactionary-f...
k2xl 5y ago
Do you have a video of the all hands simulator?
gregsadetsky 5y ago
Loved the All-hands meeting simulator! Congrats
samstave 5y ago
You should add: "Make the world a better place?" to the agenda
thearn4 5y ago
I think this is related to why I got into stain glass window making as a pandemic hobby. As everything I was working on felt ephemeral and physically disconnecting, it was refreshing to take on something both creative and tangible.
frompdx 5y ago
Out of curiosity, what did you use to make the all hands simulator?
- imhoguy 5y ago
  "UnityPlayer.dll" tells me it is Unity. Works nicely on Linux Wine too.
- rpastuszak 5y ago
  Procreate -> Photoshop -> Unity It's a really fun workflow: I doodle on my tablet, airdrop the psd, convert to PSB (makes skinning/rigging easier) and import into Unity to animate. What makes it fun/rewarding is the short feedback loop, in less than 1-2 minutes you get something to play with.
hyperpallium2 5y ago
Conjecture: the fundamental distinction between software engineering and other engineering disciplines is the lack of DEs. Though calculus plays a role in information theory (and of course in some application domains such as computational fluid dynamics and machine learning). Software engineering is more like a trade or craft, except that it's new and still evolving.
- ineedasername 5y ago
  Software engineering seems like it might, eventually, become actual engineering when it matures a bit. Most other forms of engineering have had centuries or even longer to figure things out. In software, we started with a programmable loom, stagnated for a few centuries, then all at once had tools and systems too complex to understand all of their implications. It would be like taking apothecaries from the 1700s and putting them in the middle of a massive industrial chemical plant and hoping they make useful things that don't break easily or have design flaws.
aarongraham 5y ago
That all-hands simulator is fantastic. We once worked together and have attended some of the same all-hands meetings. Your game is about as painful as the real thing, which makes it even more hilarious.
- rpastuszak 5y ago
  > your game is about as painful as the real thing, which makes it even more hilarious. Hi Aaron! And, yes, you're 100% correct--I've had more of those recently so needed an outlet. I'm (mildly) sorry you had to go through this again.
nicbou 5y ago
I wholeheartedly support this. These "useless" project rekindled my love for programming. They're the ones I enjoy working on, because I know from the start that they're only for fun.

ehnto 5y ago

> an All-hands meeting simulator: Ha! Fantastic. > I come from a family with 4 generations of carpenters. It's a profession more similar to software engineering that most engineering jobs I can think of. The main difference is that in our domain so often the results of our work just don't feel real. That is the core issue I have with software development, it can feel ephemeral and extremely temporary. My remediation for this is partially game development too, since the artifact you create is immersive and directly enjoyed by others, it can make you feel surprisingly connected to the world.

spoonjim 5y ago
It sucks how temporary software is, especially Web software. If you don’t pay the hosting bill it’s gone. If you don’t upgrade to 64 but it’s useless. Essentially it’s a plate spinning on a stick and it needs constant attention to survive. Contrast that to a fine piece of furniture which barring fire or flood can just sit abandoned in a warehouse for 300 years and then be even more valuable than it was initially.
- nicoburns 5y ago
  Thw flip side being that once built you can potentially reach thousands if not millions of people with your project.
  - geoduck14 5y ago
    Are you describing a toilet seat at the airport?
- fossuser 5y ago
  This is some of the appeal of urbit to me: https://moronlab.blogspot.com/2010/01/urbit-functional-programming-from.html https://moronlab.blogspot.com/2010/01/urbit-functional-progr... That blog post is old, urbit does exist now.
  - hytdstd 5y ago
    This article is extremely long-winded. Do you mind providing a summary of what exactly appeals to you? Also: Is "C. Guy Yarvin" Curtis Yarvin?
    - Matticus_Rex 5y ago
      > Also: Is "C. Guy Yarvin" Curtis Yarvin? Yeah, Urbit was Yarvin's project until 2019 when he left the company.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - fossuser 5y ago
      Core idea is how can you design a software system that avoids the pitfalls of spinning plate on a stick that requires constant maintenance as the world shifts around it, 'the big ball of mud'. One way to do this is to design a system where all events of the system can be replayed from start to finish in an immutable/repeatable way. Taking the advantages of state guarantees from functional language design and applying something similar to an entire OS. You can design something that abstracts this general design away from specific implementations of pieces that interact with the underlying system today (*nix). This podcast doesn't a decent job of introducing some of the concepts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/understanding-urbit/id1504188804 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/understanding-urbit/id... It's a little hard to summarize in a really short comment because there's a lot of new/first principles thinking that doesn't analogize super cleanly to the existing software stack people are familiar with (which is why it's interesting). Yeah that's Curtis Yarvin, I think his neo-reactionary politics are wrong [0], but the design and ideas behind urbit are good (and he's no longer directly involved in the project). [0]: https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/10/20/the-anti-reactionary-faq/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/10/20/the-anti-reactionary-f...

k2xl 5y ago

Do you have a video of the all hands simulator?

gregsadetsky 5y ago

Loved the All-hands meeting simulator! Congrats

samstave 5y ago

You should add: "Make the world a better place?" to the agenda

thearn4 5y ago

I think this is related to why I got into stain glass window making as a pandemic hobby. As everything I was working on felt ephemeral and physically disconnecting, it was refreshing to take on something both creative and tangible.

frompdx 5y ago

Out of curiosity, what did you use to make the all hands simulator?

imhoguy 5y ago
"UnityPlayer.dll" tells me it is Unity. Works nicely on Linux Wine too.
rpastuszak 5y ago
Procreate -> Photoshop -> Unity It's a really fun workflow: I doodle on my tablet, airdrop the psd, convert to PSB (makes skinning/rigging easier) and import into Unity to animate. What makes it fun/rewarding is the short feedback loop, in less than 1-2 minutes you get something to play with.

hyperpallium2 5y ago

Conjecture: the fundamental distinction between software engineering and other engineering disciplines is the lack of DEs. Though calculus plays a role in information theory (and of course in some application domains such as computational fluid dynamics and machine learning). Software engineering is more like a trade or craft, except that it's new and still evolving.

ineedasername 5y ago
Software engineering seems like it might, eventually, become actual engineering when it matures a bit. Most other forms of engineering have had centuries or even longer to figure things out. In software, we started with a programmable loom, stagnated for a few centuries, then all at once had tools and systems too complex to understand all of their implications. It would be like taking apothecaries from the 1700s and putting them in the middle of a massive industrial chemical plant and hoping they make useful things that don't break easily or have design flaws.

aarongraham 5y ago

That all-hands simulator is fantastic. We once worked together and have attended some of the same all-hands meetings. Your game is about as painful as the real thing, which makes it even more hilarious.

rpastuszak 5y ago
> your game is about as painful as the real thing, which makes it even more hilarious. Hi Aaron! And, yes, you're 100% correct--I've had more of those recently so needed an outlet. I'm (mildly) sorry you had to go through this again.

nicbou 5y ago

I wholeheartedly support this. These "useless" project rekindled my love for programming. They're the ones I enjoy working on, because I know from the start that they're only for fun.