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I watched a human driver in a BMW weave at 90 mph through traffic yesterday, swerving back and forth between lanes inches from other peoples cars. If Tesla can

I watched a human driver in a BMW weave at 90 mph through traffic yesterday, swerving back and forth between lanes inches from other peoples cars. If Tesla can make a car that's even 1% less dangerous than human drivers, that could be thousands of deaths avoided every year. Humans should not be allowed to drive cars on public streets.

carlmr 5y ago
But that surely is the description of 1% of the drivers. It should be better than the 1% worst drivers. It should be demonstrably safer than humans on average with a good margin.
- minhazm 5y ago
  Even if they accomplish that, people will move the goal posts. People are illogical and will see some edge case that self driving might perform worse at, but on an aggregate data basis it might be 10x safer than human drivers. People will see that 1 edge case and say that self driving cars are worse than humans.
  - mikestew 5y ago
    That's an awful lot of presumption of "people"'s behavior toward a system that has failed nearly every promise made. There's no need to move the goal posts when the player isn't anywhere near it. I mean, if we're going to talk about someone moving goal posts around, how about the one claiming "full self-driving" for a system that isn't anything of the sort?
Syonyk 5y ago
> Humans should not be allowed to drive cars on public streets. Because the alternative right now is... this abomination that doesn't even grasp what a concrete pillar is?
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Maybe it does and it is trying to put itself out of its misery?
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
The fact that a presumably average or not too far from average human can <clutches pearls> "weave at 90 mph through traffic yesterday, swerving back and forth between lanes inches from other peoples cars" should tell you how wide of a gulf there is between human operators and current FSD tech, which will dodge road debris only if it looks like a car, person, cyclist or traffic cone.
- wedn3sday 5y ago
  Yes, Im "pearl clutching" because some ahole decided to put hundreds of peoples lives at risk so he (and its always a he) could have a little thrill. There is a wide gulf now between human skill and robo-driver skill, just as 50 years ago it was much faster to call someone then send them a message in the mail. Now we have email, and in the future we will have (actual, real) full self driving.
  - nradov 5y ago
    Is that the same future where we'll have fusion power and colonies on Mars?
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    >Im "pearl clutching" because some ahole decided to put hundreds of peoples lives at risk The fact that you're saying he put hundreds of lives at risk when a hundred is a score that a terrorist with a semi truck would be proud of and is for all practical purposes unattainable with a light vehicle does seem to point in that direction. I'm not condoning his behavior but 1) people are jerks, what do you expect and 2) you are getting way to bent out of shape over it. > Now we have email, and in the future we will have (actual, real) full self driving. And yet people pick up the phone for the urgent stuff and send snail mail for the super important stuff (though the latter is changing with online forms moving into more and more areas). That says something about the true nature of technological progress. We come up with new better stuff but often old stuff keeps some niches for itself.
darknavi 5y ago
It will be interesting where we draw the line on "good enough". I think people will naturally be much more critical of a car than human drivers even if "overall" they are statistically safer.
H8crilA 5y ago
You know there's a very old and working solution to this specific problem, it's calling the police and reporting the license plate numbers so that the driver is punished for reckless behavior. Technology made it much easier via dashcams.
- darknavi 5y ago
  I've admittedly only tried doing this once, but it got no where. The police said they wouldn't/couldn't do anything unless they were on-site and could ID the driver.
  - mikestew 5y ago
    Same experience, which causes me to question the utility of signs along (as one example in the Seattle area) East Lake Sammamish Parkway stating that I should report aggressive driving. Well, not if you're just going to blow me off.
mikestew 5y ago
If Tesla can build a system that can do what that BMW driver did, I'll buy one tomorrow. As it is, it looks like the things have trouble just staying in their lane.

carlmr 5y ago

But that surely is the description of 1% of the drivers. It should be better than the 1% worst drivers. It should be demonstrably safer than humans on average with a good margin.

minhazm 5y ago
Even if they accomplish that, people will move the goal posts. People are illogical and will see some edge case that self driving might perform worse at, but on an aggregate data basis it might be 10x safer than human drivers. People will see that 1 edge case and say that self driving cars are worse than humans.
- mikestew 5y ago
  That's an awful lot of presumption of "people"'s behavior toward a system that has failed nearly every promise made. There's no need to move the goal posts when the player isn't anywhere near it. I mean, if we're going to talk about someone moving goal posts around, how about the one claiming "full self-driving" for a system that isn't anything of the sort?

Syonyk 5y ago

> Humans should not be allowed to drive cars on public streets. Because the alternative right now is... this abomination that doesn't even grasp what a concrete pillar is?

jacquesm 5y ago
Maybe it does and it is trying to put itself out of its misery?

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

The fact that a presumably average or not too far from average human can <clutches pearls> "weave at 90 mph through traffic yesterday, swerving back and forth between lanes inches from other peoples cars" should tell you how wide of a gulf there is between human operators and current FSD tech, which will dodge road debris only if it looks like a car, person, cyclist or traffic cone.

wedn3sday 5y ago
Yes, Im "pearl clutching" because some ahole decided to put hundreds of peoples lives at risk so he (and its always a he) could have a little thrill. There is a wide gulf now between human skill and robo-driver skill, just as 50 years ago it was much faster to call someone then send them a message in the mail. Now we have email, and in the future we will have (actual, real) full self driving.
- nradov 5y ago
  Is that the same future where we'll have fusion power and colonies on Mars?
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  >Im "pearl clutching" because some ahole decided to put hundreds of peoples lives at risk The fact that you're saying he put hundreds of lives at risk when a hundred is a score that a terrorist with a semi truck would be proud of and is for all practical purposes unattainable with a light vehicle does seem to point in that direction. I'm not condoning his behavior but 1) people are jerks, what do you expect and 2) you are getting way to bent out of shape over it. > Now we have email, and in the future we will have (actual, real) full self driving. And yet people pick up the phone for the urgent stuff and send snail mail for the super important stuff (though the latter is changing with online forms moving into more and more areas). That says something about the true nature of technological progress. We come up with new better stuff but often old stuff keeps some niches for itself.

darknavi 5y ago

It will be interesting where we draw the line on "good enough". I think people will naturally be much more critical of a car than human drivers even if "overall" they are statistically safer.

H8crilA 5y ago

You know there's a very old and working solution to this specific problem, it's calling the police and reporting the license plate numbers so that the driver is punished for reckless behavior. Technology made it much easier via dashcams.

darknavi 5y ago
I've admittedly only tried doing this once, but it got no where. The police said they wouldn't/couldn't do anything unless they were on-site and could ID the driver.
- mikestew 5y ago
  Same experience, which causes me to question the utility of signs along (as one example in the Seattle area) East Lake Sammamish Parkway stating that I should report aggressive driving. Well, not if you're just going to blow me off.

mikestew 5y ago

If Tesla can build a system that can do what that BMW driver did, I'll buy one tomorrow. As it is, it looks like the things have trouble just staying in their lane.