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The entirety of human civilization existed for all but the last 200 years without combustion engines.

KingMachiavelli 5y ago
But most humans by far have existed in the last 200 years. The current mean birth age of all humans ever (50% humans born before & 50% born after) is probably only like 1950 at the oldest.
- CameronNemo 5y ago
  Why is that a good thing? Humans, their livestock, and their crops have grown to dominate much of the land. That reduces biodiversity and makes for a less resilient ecosystem overall.
  - alexose 5y ago
    At the risk of sounding like a movie villain... anyone who's tried to go to Yosemite on a weekend must agree with this on some level
- sharkjacobs 5y ago
  That's not really relevant but also not true. A reasonable estimate is that ~105 billion modern homo sapiens have ever lived[1], the inflection point you're talking about (50% humans born before & 50% born after) probably happened closer to 200-300CE[2] [1]: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12288594/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12288594/ [2]: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-are-the-demographics-of-heaven/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-are-the-demographi...
  - KingMachiavelli 5y ago
    Hmm interesting. Would the number of human-years or human-hours lived be different? Perhaps looking at population/exponential graphs is giving me a false intuition because the birth & growth rates were much higher in the past but the overall growth rate stayed the same. It is relevant if you think that the individual unit of human civilization is a single person.
spywaregorilla 5y ago
And? I think human civilization is a lot more impressive now than 200 years ago.
- klyrs 5y ago
  Yeah, early humans were only capable of extincting megafauna. Today, we're doing dozens of species per day! We'd be much more impressive as a species if we didn't limit the use of DDT, CFCs, etc
  - smokelegend 5y ago
    Crazy to think that in the life span of this planet is ??? Before christ? After christ? A million years or two? Exactly, no one knows the answer.... We can't agree as a civilization when this planet started, but everyone knows when it's going to end.... irony is thick around these parts... "One thing I know, I know nothing."
    - klyrs 5y ago
      Weird troll. You don't need to know what day a person was born, to recognize that they've got a dangerously high fever. The world will keep turning, regardless of fitness for human life.
  - spywaregorilla 5y ago
    That's a pretty bad metric for success.
    - klyrs 5y ago
      Agreed, I'm playing with the neutrality of the word "impressive." A tsunami is certainly impressive... Modern humans are more impressive than our ancestors, according to you. Is that good, or are we a tsunami?
      - spywaregorilla 5y ago

But most humans by far have existed in the last 200 years. The current mean birth age of all humans ever (50% humans born before & 50% born after) is probably only like 1950 at the oldest.

CameronNemo 5y ago
Why is that a good thing? Humans, their livestock, and their crops have grown to dominate much of the land. That reduces biodiversity and makes for a less resilient ecosystem overall.
- alexose 5y ago
  At the risk of sounding like a movie villain... anyone who's tried to go to Yosemite on a weekend must agree with this on some level
sharkjacobs 5y ago
That's not really relevant but also not true. A reasonable estimate is that ~105 billion modern homo sapiens have ever lived[1], the inflection point you're talking about (50% humans born before & 50% born after) probably happened closer to 200-300CE[2] [1]: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12288594/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12288594/ [2]: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-are-the-demographics-of-heaven/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-are-the-demographi...
- KingMachiavelli 5y ago
  Hmm interesting. Would the number of human-years or human-hours lived be different? Perhaps looking at population/exponential graphs is giving me a false intuition because the birth & growth rates were much higher in the past but the overall growth rate stayed the same. It is relevant if you think that the individual unit of human civilization is a single person.

spywaregorilla 5y ago

And? I think human civilization is a lot more impressive now than 200 years ago.

klyrs 5y ago
Yeah, early humans were only capable of extincting megafauna. Today, we're doing dozens of species per day! We'd be much more impressive as a species if we didn't limit the use of DDT, CFCs, etc
- smokelegend 5y ago
  Crazy to think that in the life span of this planet is ??? Before christ? After christ? A million years or two? Exactly, no one knows the answer.... We can't agree as a civilization when this planet started, but everyone knows when it's going to end.... irony is thick around these parts... "One thing I know, I know nothing."
  - klyrs 5y ago
    Weird troll. You don't need to know what day a person was born, to recognize that they've got a dangerously high fever. The world will keep turning, regardless of fitness for human life.
- spywaregorilla 5y ago
  That's a pretty bad metric for success.
  - klyrs 5y ago
    Agreed, I'm playing with the neutrality of the word "impressive." A tsunami is certainly impressive... Modern humans are more impressive than our ancestors, according to you. Is that good, or are we a tsunami?
    - spywaregorilla 5y ago