10 ms·

Girls sweep at Google Science Fair

104 points by gopi 15y ago

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
scythe 15y ago
>For the winning research Ms. Bose looked at a chemotherapy drug, cisplatin, that is commonly taken by women with ovarian cancer. The problem is that the cancer cells tend to grow resistant to cisplatin over time, and Ms. Bose set out to find a way to counteract that. Original study: https://sites.google.com/site/ampkandcisplatinresistance/ https://sites.google.com/site/ampkandcisplatinresistance/ Doesn't seem to have been published yet, but presumably it will be.
- bedris 15y ago
  Very nice work by a high school student! However, the hypothesis that AMPK can protect cells from cisplatin-induced cytotoxicity has been around for about four years: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1582-4934.2009.00663.x/full http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1582-4934.2009.... http://www.jbc.org/content/283/7/3731.short http://www.jbc.org/content/283/7/3731.short
ricefield 15y ago
I didn't read the article in is entirety, but one line popped out at me, where one of the finalists says something like "Yeah! Girl power!" Am I the only one who feels like, although men may 'dominate' the hard sciences, one of the reasons (among many others which I won't discuss) why girls may succeed at stages like this is because of the encouragement from a "girl power!" (perhaps, underdog?) mentality? If boys won and went with "guy power!" they would simply be accused of being sexist or even misogynist rather than fair-minded, or intrinsically motivated.
- Shenglong 15y ago
  If boys won and went with "guy power!" they would simply be accused of being sexist or even misogynist rather than fair-minded, or intrinsically motivated. Yes. First thing that popped into my head when I read that too.
  - Apocryphon 15y ago
    That sort of cheer doesn't make any sense, though. Guys aren't usually the losers of science fairs.
  - kenjackson 15y ago
    If boys won a limbo contest they may say that. And likewise, women probably aren't likely to say such a thing at a limbo contest.
- jamesaguilar 15y ago
  Solidarity has historically been acceptable in disadvantaged groups and frowned upon when exhibited by privileged groups. This reasons for this should be fairly obvious.
  - ricefield 15y ago
    True, but I guess I'm starting to feel that girls are no longer "disadvantaged." Less interested, maybe, disadvantaged, not so much. EDIT: for context, I'm a child of the 90's, perhaps much different (or not) from some of you. I grew up in liberal(?) Silicon Valley. As a male, my entire life I've felt that girls were encouraged to succeed academically, received extra help, and greatly praised for their accomplishments, all because of a perceived societal disadvantage; whereas the boys were either expected to succeed, or largely disregarded because, hey what's the big deal? they're somehow at a huge advantage anyways. in my high school graduating class, both the valedictorian and salutatorian were girls. and while I had guy friends who were equally brilliant, they never had the motivation or desire to succeed academically the way those girls (one of whom i was best friends with) were. to me it was striking to see brilliant young men and women, and the startling contrast in motivation and approaches to life (the guys were incredibly laid back, the girls were very much go-getters). these are my personal observations, and as stated above, a personal feeling, fwiw (probably not much)
    - jamesaguilar 15y ago
      On what basis do you think this? Simply because there are no longer any laws which explicitly disadvantage women? For example, do you think women are equally likely to be discriminated against on the basis of sex as men? Do you think they are equally likely to be abused domestically, or harassed on the street? Do you think men and women are equally likely to be the target of sexual harassment in the workplace? Do you think the two groups are equally likely to be raped? I doubt the numbers will bear out in your favor on any of these points were we to check them. And these are only explicit forms of discrimination. This does not account for latent discrimination, which is quite difficult to measure but probably exists more copiously than explicit discrimination.
- funkah 15y ago
  You would think we could just celebrate that they're smart, but apparently we need to celebrate that they're smart and that they're girls. I think that sends a bad message, that girls are hothouse flowers or somehow need more encouragement for them to do well.
  - raganwald 15y ago
    Wait, what!? Let's say, for example, that we have a country like Fiji where XC skiing is rare. But a university student from Fiji he takes up the sport. He ends up representing his country in the 1988 Olympics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiji_at_the_1988_Winter_Olympics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiji_at_the_1988_Winter_Olympic... Now, if he were to go on and actually win an Olympic medal, is it wrong of us to say, "Wow, that's amazing considering he's from a country that traditionally doesn't do very well in Winter sports?" Are we treating him like a hot house flower to celebrate the fact that he skiis and he's from Fiji? Do we think Fijians have some sort of character defect if they need to be encouraged to try this sport that for decades has been dominated by people who aren't very much like them at all?
    - Helianthus 15y ago
      you're saying that girls don't 'come from a place' where they can develop math and science skills. it's not wrong to celebrate overcoming hardship. it's wrong to assume that the hardship of being a woman has been overcome as if there's something implicitly more difficult for _every woman_.
      - raganwald 15y ago
        I said nothing of the sort. I said that Rusiate Rogoyawa came from a place where people like him hadn't won Olympic medals. I said nothing about whether Fijians have hardships to overcome or whether they simply don't care about XC skiing. It is enough to note that there have been no medals for Fiji, and a medal would be unusual. My claim is that this is similar to the case of the girls. We have plenty of uncontested evidence that women can be fine scientists. What is missing is a track record of girls winning science fairs, much less sweeping them.
- raganwald 15y ago
  No, you're not the only one, and your comment strongly reminds me of the question of why society frowns on "White Power" and "White Pride." I can't really think of anything to tell you that hasn't been said to people asking this question for the last fifty years or so, just pointing out that the issues of insiders vs. outsiders seem to be similar.
  - thewisedude 15y ago
    2 out of the 3 girls seem to be of south Asian origin(Indian?). Does that not seem like a statistical anomaly considering the percentage of south Asians in the US? Any comments?
    - raganwald 15y ago
      I still can't think of anything to say about the unfairness of not being able to encourage boys with "boy power" that hasn't been said--rightly or wrongly--about "white power." The possibility that 2/3 of the girls in question were from the Indian subcontinent doesn't spur me to greater creativity.
- sp332 15y ago
  they would simply be accused of being sexist Yes, but unfairly. I think the exclamation was one of surprise, not putting down boys. It would be hard to tell, without being there.
- libria 15y ago
  The "Girl Power" attitude probably reflects more of a clique-ish divide common at that age rather than a social aside on gender inequality, similar to a "Generic HS represent!" cheer. The more alarming quote was Cerf's "I was secretly very pleased to see that happen." The obvious corollary is that he would have been secretly less pleased if boys had won. Does that indicate he has lesser expectations for women? Would his (probably) sub-conscious bias actually hurt girls perceptions of themselves in the long run? Reminds me of the Reddit thread for a women-only programming event that received some backlash: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/h0fe0/pyladies_an_introductory_workshop/ http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/h0fe0/pyladies_...
  - raganwald 15y ago
    The more alarming quote was Cerf's "I was secretly very pleased to see that happen." The obvious corollary is that he would have been secretly less pleased if boys had won. Another alarming interpretation is that he was secretly pleased that the girls had won, but would have been openly pleased if boys had won :-)
- nancye 15y ago
  In fifth grade, my science teacher asked me if I'd copied answers off the boy who sat in front of me, even though my grade average was 20 points higher than his. In sixth grade, my math teacher was well known to favor the boys in the class and would only call on me if I was the only one with my hand raised. In eighth grade, another teacher chose two boys to represent the school at a math competition even though I had the highest average in the class. All little things, but I still remember them. In high school, my all-girl team won the state science league twice, and I finished first individually. Did we take pride and inspiration in the fact that we'd beaten all the boys in the state? Absolutely! Were we truly at an advantage when it came to math and science education? I never felt like it, and I knew a lot of bright girls who internalized the "girls aren't supposed to be good at this" message in ways that affected their education and career choices. Sometimes a little girl power is just what helps you to keep going in the face of subtle or overt discouragement from the people around you.
  - Helianthus 15y ago
    which is all true and good, but doesn't change the fundamental unfairness that it ranges from discouraged to taboo to say something like "Guy power!" or "Yeah, go men!" how many bright men are internalizing messages detrimental to their education and career choices? maybe a little guy power would help them keep going in the face of subtle etc.
    - jamesaguilar 15y ago
      http://cdn3.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/084/118/original/2u9jxps.jpg?1290452475 http://cdn3.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/084/118/original/2u9jxps....
    - Apocryphon 15y ago
      I don't really think majoritarian pride is as uplifting or fun as pride in achieving well despite being part of a disadvantaged minority. However, we should get rid of majoritarian shame/guilt, of course.
      - 15y ago
- 5hoom 15y ago
  I don't feel that a girl getting into the finals & cheering "girl power" is the most offensive thing in the world. I suppose she should have gracefully & demurely stood & curtseyed (while balancing a stack of books on her head) as the audience clapped politely. I would think the hacker community should be welcoming to a bit more girl power & I for one welcome our new double x chromosome overlords :)
grannyg00se 15y ago
Dr. Cerf [google's chief Internet Evangelist] said. "This is just a reminder that women are fully capable of doing same or better quality work than men can." I somehow find this quote to be rather unfortunate. I know he meant it in a good way, but it makes it seem as though the general public needs to be reminded that women aren't less intelligent than men. Perhaps for many that reminder may be required, but I guess the fact that we need such a reminder saddens me. I would have preferred something like that not be mentioned. Or perhaps I would prefer that it need not be pointed out at all.
- catshirt 15y ago
  while i agree, doesn't the entire article exist for the same reason as the quote?
- sp332 15y ago
  "Personally I think that’s amazing, because throughout my entire life, I’ve heard science is a field where men go into," Ms. Bose said. "It just starts to show you that women are stepping up in science, and I’m excited that I was able to represent maybe just a little bit of that." I'm not sure where or who, exactly, but there are people who think that only men go into science. It's unfortunate, but apparently, this really is necessary.
meow 15y ago
The winning entry was for finding a way to overcome the resistance to a drug by cancer cells. I'm curious, how does a 17 year old get access to labs, chemicals, cell cultures required to conduct the study ? Is it common in US for students of this age to have access to such things ?
- Qo 15y ago
  I wondered the same thing about the third place contestant. The write-up said she measured the carcinogens in grilled chicken using a high pressure liquid chromatograph-mass spectrometer. When I was in college, they would only let us use the analytic equipment in planned labs under supervised conditions. I can only imagine the response if I went to the lab manager and asked if I could put a piece of chicken in his spectrometer.
  - kiiski 15y ago
    Perhaps they just have some special arrangements for people entering (big) contests.
- sliverstorm 15y ago
  She worked under a professor at a nearby University. So, this work was either given to her, or she worked her *ss off to get there.
  - potatolicious 15y ago
    Or she asked politely. I find that the younger you are the easier it is to get things. When I was in high school I wanted to get into video games badly. I found someone at the local EA office, got to meet him, got introduced around, and even got his mentorship on a few projects. All of this, I think, based on the notion that I'm a smart-lookin' 16 year-old student. Try getting that with just a phone call when you're out of school and in your 20s and 30s.
- iloveyouocean 15y ago
  I dont know if she was in the same situation, but I went to a Math/Science Magnet High School and we were required to conduct a research project at the local university with a professor as an advisor. My school had relationships with many professors that were willing to mentor us. Basically, each day we would leave school a couple hours early and head to the university lab where we would work. The projects were often a part of or a very small version of projects that the lab was already involved in. So at the end of our research we got to talk about the super amazing project we had worked on and generally looked like amazing geniuses, when in fact we were more or less tagging along and doing some semi-advanced lab tech work.
fjabre 15y ago
I don't care if they won specifically because they were female. It's a sausage fest in the bay area. Time to get the women on board guys. They need to be part of the 'future' too.
- fjabre 15y ago
  0 points for speaking the truth. At least we're honest with ourselves right?
timdellinger 15y ago
This reminds of research showing that "Over 80% of high school leadership positions are now held by girls (Fiscus, 1997.)" ( from http://cfge.wm.edu/Gifted%20Educ%20Artices/GenderGenius.htm http://cfge.wm.edu/Gifted%20Educ%20Artices/GenderGenius.htm ) It still remains to be seen how doing more of something (or being more successful at something) in high school translates to being successful at that endeavor later in life. Time will tell!
- potatolicious 15y ago
  Parental and social expectations are a big one. As an Asian immigrant, and I knew plenty of Asian women who did superbly in high school - student council, extracurriculars, excellent academics, etc etc... who had the rug pulled from under them as soon as they graduated. Some of them made it into prestigious universities far from home - but weren't allowed to go, since "girls shouldn't be too far from family"... whereas dudes can, apparently. A few (thankfully not many) were dissuaded from going into lucrative fields since it "wouldn't leave time for children later" or would make it "unlikely to find a good husband" (in Asian circles this usually means stability and a fat paycheck). It would not surprise me if, among all the reasons why women are held back in society, their own parents are a huge cause.
- tricolon 15y ago
  Everything in high school is a popularity contest, whether it's obvious or not.
nice1 15y ago
Propaganda goes only so far; look what happened to the Soviets.
credo 15y ago
>>Dr. Cerf said. "This is just a reminder that women are fully capable of doing same or better quality work than men can." I hope those those who needed a reminder about the capabilities of girls or women see this news. However, (and I realize this will be controversial) imo this result doesn't contradict the general notion that girls (in mainstream American culture) are discouraged (by societal and cultural pressures) from engaging in science and engineering. Two of the three girls are Indian-American and these girls presumably don't face the same pressures that most other American girls face. For that matter, I think that women in countries like India, China, Russia etc. are much more represented in science and engineering (in their countries) than native-born women in the US.
- Scriptor 15y ago
  One possible reason for this is that in those countries science/engineering is often one of the few routes an educated women has available. I've only heard this anecdotally and haven't been able to research it, but it could be one factor.
  - pavel_lishin 15y ago
    My mother was born and raised in the USSR, and got a master's degree in engineering (if memory serves correctly). I'll link her to this comment, and see what she has to say (I'll probably end up replying to myself on this comment, I don't know if she'd have any interest in signing up for an account.) edit: can we get a reddit-style "context" option? I want to link her to this comment, and display the two parent comments; if I just link to the 'grandparent', who knows where Scriptor's reply will end up.
    - irahul 15y ago
      Click on the link of the comment you want to forward: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2782258 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2782258
      - pavel_lishin 15y ago
emily37 15y ago
Hmm. To me, the problem with "girl power", etc. is that, as a young female scientist, you're inundated with suggestions that girls are your "team" and boys are your rivals. If you hear enough about "girl power" growing up, you start to feel that you have to represent your gender well: that you have to beat boys on tests (though it doesn't matter if you beat other girls on tests), or that knowing more than a male colleague is something to be proud of. "Girl power" was what I said in elementary school when the girls beat the guys at soccer or something, but when you start to use that sentiment in relation to intellectual abilities, you foster a hostile work environment and you encourage intellectual competition rather than collaboration across gender. On a related note, here's a NYT blog post that I saw recently that highlights the science fair winners' gender and just goes up in flames: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/13/girl-power-wins-at-googles-first-science-fair/ http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/13/girl-power-wins-at-... It ends by suggesting that Google hired Marissa Mayer and Susan Wojcicki because they would help recruit more women, which made me cringe, even though I know that the author probably didn't intend to make exactly that point.
duggan 15y ago
I definitely thought this was going to be an article about the juxtaposition of an all female cast of cleaning professionals with an all male science fair as a broad analogy for the "glass ceiling" effect. Glad to see I was mistaken :)
FraaJad 15y ago
Paging Vivek Wadhwa to write an article about Immigrants' children doing well in STEM. (6 out of 20 finalists are Indian-American) [1] [1] http://www.google.com/events/sciencefair/finalists.html http://www.google.com/events/sciencefair/finalists.html
- meow 15y ago
  It's actually 5 out of 11 (considering USA). Other finalists are from different countries (including 1 from India)
gooberdlx 15y ago
Go Fort Worth!
- gooberdlx 15y ago
  -1? The first place girl was from the Fort Worth area and I was showing pride... I don't get downvotes.
bm98 15y ago
The top three winners were all in the health sciences. Had they been in engineering, physical science, or computer science then it would have been more newsworthy given the gender gap in those fields.
smallegan 15y ago
Anyone else think this was going to be about the janitorial staff at the Google Science Fair based on the title?
niels_olson 15y ago
I recall when I was on staff at the Naval Academy, there was a persistent finding in various in-house studies that the female midshipmen got more positive attention and feedback from virtually everyone, from staff and faculty to other midshipmen. Thus paradoxically, going from all male to mostly male made it even less likely for any given male student to find a mentor.
exDM69 15y ago
This is what you get when you replace boys' toys such as lego blocks and meccanos, and to a lesser extent, hack it-yourself-computers like c64's and dos boxes with xboxes. I got my spark for science and engineering when I was a kid by building legos, making electric circuits from a construction kit and learning the baby steps of programming with qbasic.

104 points by gopi 15y ago

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

>For the winning research Ms. Bose looked at a chemotherapy drug, cisplatin, that is commonly taken by women with ovarian cancer. The problem is that the cancer cells tend to grow resistant to cisplatin over time, and Ms. Bose set out to find a way to counteract that. Original study: https://sites.google.com/site/ampkandcisplatinresistance/ https://sites.google.com/site/ampkandcisplatinresistance/ Doesn't seem to have been published yet, but presumably it will be.

bedris 15y ago
Very nice work by a high school student! However, the hypothesis that AMPK can protect cells from cisplatin-induced cytotoxicity has been around for about four years: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1582-4934.2009.00663.x/full http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1582-4934.2009.... http://www.jbc.org/content/283/7/3731.short http://www.jbc.org/content/283/7/3731.short

ricefield 15y ago

I didn't read the article in is entirety, but one line popped out at me, where one of the finalists says something like "Yeah! Girl power!" Am I the only one who feels like, although men may 'dominate' the hard sciences, one of the reasons (among many others which I won't discuss) why girls may succeed at stages like this is because of the encouragement from a "girl power!" (perhaps, underdog?) mentality? If boys won and went with "guy power!" they would simply be accused of being sexist or even misogynist rather than fair-minded, or intrinsically motivated.

Shenglong 15y ago
If boys won and went with "guy power!" they would simply be accused of being sexist or even misogynist rather than fair-minded, or intrinsically motivated. Yes. First thing that popped into my head when I read that too.
- Apocryphon 15y ago
  That sort of cheer doesn't make any sense, though. Guys aren't usually the losers of science fairs.
- kenjackson 15y ago
  If boys won a limbo contest they may say that. And likewise, women probably aren't likely to say such a thing at a limbo contest.
jamesaguilar 15y ago
Solidarity has historically been acceptable in disadvantaged groups and frowned upon when exhibited by privileged groups. This reasons for this should be fairly obvious.
- ricefield 15y ago
  True, but I guess I'm starting to feel that girls are no longer "disadvantaged." Less interested, maybe, disadvantaged, not so much. EDIT: for context, I'm a child of the 90's, perhaps much different (or not) from some of you. I grew up in liberal(?) Silicon Valley. As a male, my entire life I've felt that girls were encouraged to succeed academically, received extra help, and greatly praised for their accomplishments, all because of a perceived societal disadvantage; whereas the boys were either expected to succeed, or largely disregarded because, hey what's the big deal? they're somehow at a huge advantage anyways. in my high school graduating class, both the valedictorian and salutatorian were girls. and while I had guy friends who were equally brilliant, they never had the motivation or desire to succeed academically the way those girls (one of whom i was best friends with) were. to me it was striking to see brilliant young men and women, and the startling contrast in motivation and approaches to life (the guys were incredibly laid back, the girls were very much go-getters). these are my personal observations, and as stated above, a personal feeling, fwiw (probably not much)
  - jamesaguilar 15y ago
    On what basis do you think this? Simply because there are no longer any laws which explicitly disadvantage women? For example, do you think women are equally likely to be discriminated against on the basis of sex as men? Do you think they are equally likely to be abused domestically, or harassed on the street? Do you think men and women are equally likely to be the target of sexual harassment in the workplace? Do you think the two groups are equally likely to be raped? I doubt the numbers will bear out in your favor on any of these points were we to check them. And these are only explicit forms of discrimination. This does not account for latent discrimination, which is quite difficult to measure but probably exists more copiously than explicit discrimination.
funkah 15y ago
You would think we could just celebrate that they're smart, but apparently we need to celebrate that they're smart and that they're girls. I think that sends a bad message, that girls are hothouse flowers or somehow need more encouragement for them to do well.
- raganwald 15y ago
  Wait, what!? Let's say, for example, that we have a country like Fiji where XC skiing is rare. But a university student from Fiji he takes up the sport. He ends up representing his country in the 1988 Olympics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiji_at_the_1988_Winter_Olympics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiji_at_the_1988_Winter_Olympic... Now, if he were to go on and actually win an Olympic medal, is it wrong of us to say, "Wow, that's amazing considering he's from a country that traditionally doesn't do very well in Winter sports?" Are we treating him like a hot house flower to celebrate the fact that he skiis and he's from Fiji? Do we think Fijians have some sort of character defect if they need to be encouraged to try this sport that for decades has been dominated by people who aren't very much like them at all?
  - Helianthus 15y ago
    you're saying that girls don't 'come from a place' where they can develop math and science skills. it's not wrong to celebrate overcoming hardship. it's wrong to assume that the hardship of being a woman has been overcome as if there's something implicitly more difficult for _every woman_.
    - raganwald 15y ago
      I said nothing of the sort. I said that Rusiate Rogoyawa came from a place where people like him hadn't won Olympic medals. I said nothing about whether Fijians have hardships to overcome or whether they simply don't care about XC skiing. It is enough to note that there have been no medals for Fiji, and a medal would be unusual. My claim is that this is similar to the case of the girls. We have plenty of uncontested evidence that women can be fine scientists. What is missing is a track record of girls winning science fairs, much less sweeping them.
raganwald 15y ago
No, you're not the only one, and your comment strongly reminds me of the question of why society frowns on "White Power" and "White Pride." I can't really think of anything to tell you that hasn't been said to people asking this question for the last fifty years or so, just pointing out that the issues of insiders vs. outsiders seem to be similar.
- thewisedude 15y ago
  2 out of the 3 girls seem to be of south Asian origin(Indian?). Does that not seem like a statistical anomaly considering the percentage of south Asians in the US? Any comments?
  - raganwald 15y ago
    I still can't think of anything to say about the unfairness of not being able to encourage boys with "boy power" that hasn't been said--rightly or wrongly--about "white power." The possibility that 2/3 of the girls in question were from the Indian subcontinent doesn't spur me to greater creativity.
sp332 15y ago
they would simply be accused of being sexist Yes, but unfairly. I think the exclamation was one of surprise, not putting down boys. It would be hard to tell, without being there.
libria 15y ago
The "Girl Power" attitude probably reflects more of a clique-ish divide common at that age rather than a social aside on gender inequality, similar to a "Generic HS represent!" cheer. The more alarming quote was Cerf's "I was secretly very pleased to see that happen." The obvious corollary is that he would have been secretly less pleased if boys had won. Does that indicate he has lesser expectations for women? Would his (probably) sub-conscious bias actually hurt girls perceptions of themselves in the long run? Reminds me of the Reddit thread for a women-only programming event that received some backlash: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/h0fe0/pyladies_an_introductory_workshop/ http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/h0fe0/pyladies_...
- raganwald 15y ago
  The more alarming quote was Cerf's "I was secretly very pleased to see that happen." The obvious corollary is that he would have been secretly less pleased if boys had won. Another alarming interpretation is that he was secretly pleased that the girls had won, but would have been openly pleased if boys had won :-)
nancye 15y ago
In fifth grade, my science teacher asked me if I'd copied answers off the boy who sat in front of me, even though my grade average was 20 points higher than his. In sixth grade, my math teacher was well known to favor the boys in the class and would only call on me if I was the only one with my hand raised. In eighth grade, another teacher chose two boys to represent the school at a math competition even though I had the highest average in the class. All little things, but I still remember them. In high school, my all-girl team won the state science league twice, and I finished first individually. Did we take pride and inspiration in the fact that we'd beaten all the boys in the state? Absolutely! Were we truly at an advantage when it came to math and science education? I never felt like it, and I knew a lot of bright girls who internalized the "girls aren't supposed to be good at this" message in ways that affected their education and career choices. Sometimes a little girl power is just what helps you to keep going in the face of subtle or overt discouragement from the people around you.
- Helianthus 15y ago
  which is all true and good, but doesn't change the fundamental unfairness that it ranges from discouraged to taboo to say something like "Guy power!" or "Yeah, go men!" how many bright men are internalizing messages detrimental to their education and career choices? maybe a little guy power would help them keep going in the face of subtle etc.
  - jamesaguilar 15y ago
    http://cdn3.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/084/118/original/2u9jxps.jpg?1290452475 http://cdn3.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/084/118/original/2u9jxps....
  - Apocryphon 15y ago
    I don't really think majoritarian pride is as uplifting or fun as pride in achieving well despite being part of a disadvantaged minority. However, we should get rid of majoritarian shame/guilt, of course.
    - 15y ago
5hoom 15y ago
I don't feel that a girl getting into the finals & cheering "girl power" is the most offensive thing in the world. I suppose she should have gracefully & demurely stood & curtseyed (while balancing a stack of books on her head) as the audience clapped politely. I would think the hacker community should be welcoming to a bit more girl power & I for one welcome our new double x chromosome overlords :)

grannyg00se 15y ago

Dr. Cerf [google's chief Internet Evangelist] said. "This is just a reminder that women are fully capable of doing same or better quality work than men can." I somehow find this quote to be rather unfortunate. I know he meant it in a good way, but it makes it seem as though the general public needs to be reminded that women aren't less intelligent than men. Perhaps for many that reminder may be required, but I guess the fact that we need such a reminder saddens me. I would have preferred something like that not be mentioned. Or perhaps I would prefer that it need not be pointed out at all.

catshirt 15y ago
while i agree, doesn't the entire article exist for the same reason as the quote?
sp332 15y ago
"Personally I think that’s amazing, because throughout my entire life, I’ve heard science is a field where men go into," Ms. Bose said. "It just starts to show you that women are stepping up in science, and I’m excited that I was able to represent maybe just a little bit of that." I'm not sure where or who, exactly, but there are people who think that only men go into science. It's unfortunate, but apparently, this really is necessary.

meow 15y ago

The winning entry was for finding a way to overcome the resistance to a drug by cancer cells. I'm curious, how does a 17 year old get access to labs, chemicals, cell cultures required to conduct the study ? Is it common in US for students of this age to have access to such things ?

Qo 15y ago
I wondered the same thing about the third place contestant. The write-up said she measured the carcinogens in grilled chicken using a high pressure liquid chromatograph-mass spectrometer. When I was in college, they would only let us use the analytic equipment in planned labs under supervised conditions. I can only imagine the response if I went to the lab manager and asked if I could put a piece of chicken in his spectrometer.
- kiiski 15y ago
  Perhaps they just have some special arrangements for people entering (big) contests.
sliverstorm 15y ago
She worked under a professor at a nearby University. So, this work was either given to her, or she worked her *ss off to get there.
- potatolicious 15y ago
  Or she asked politely. I find that the younger you are the easier it is to get things. When I was in high school I wanted to get into video games badly. I found someone at the local EA office, got to meet him, got introduced around, and even got his mentorship on a few projects. All of this, I think, based on the notion that I'm a smart-lookin' 16 year-old student. Try getting that with just a phone call when you're out of school and in your 20s and 30s.
iloveyouocean 15y ago
I dont know if she was in the same situation, but I went to a Math/Science Magnet High School and we were required to conduct a research project at the local university with a professor as an advisor. My school had relationships with many professors that were willing to mentor us. Basically, each day we would leave school a couple hours early and head to the university lab where we would work. The projects were often a part of or a very small version of projects that the lab was already involved in. So at the end of our research we got to talk about the super amazing project we had worked on and generally looked like amazing geniuses, when in fact we were more or less tagging along and doing some semi-advanced lab tech work.

fjabre 15y ago

I don't care if they won specifically because they were female. It's a sausage fest in the bay area. Time to get the women on board guys. They need to be part of the 'future' too.

fjabre 15y ago
0 points for speaking the truth. At least we're honest with ourselves right?

timdellinger 15y ago

This reminds of research showing that "Over 80% of high school leadership positions are now held by girls (Fiscus, 1997.)" ( from http://cfge.wm.edu/Gifted%20Educ%20Artices/GenderGenius.htm http://cfge.wm.edu/Gifted%20Educ%20Artices/GenderGenius.htm ) It still remains to be seen how doing more of something (or being more successful at something) in high school translates to being successful at that endeavor later in life. Time will tell!

potatolicious 15y ago
Parental and social expectations are a big one. As an Asian immigrant, and I knew plenty of Asian women who did superbly in high school - student council, extracurriculars, excellent academics, etc etc... who had the rug pulled from under them as soon as they graduated. Some of them made it into prestigious universities far from home - but weren't allowed to go, since "girls shouldn't be too far from family"... whereas dudes can, apparently. A few (thankfully not many) were dissuaded from going into lucrative fields since it "wouldn't leave time for children later" or would make it "unlikely to find a good husband" (in Asian circles this usually means stability and a fat paycheck). It would not surprise me if, among all the reasons why women are held back in society, their own parents are a huge cause.
tricolon 15y ago
Everything in high school is a popularity contest, whether it's obvious or not.

nice1 15y ago

Propaganda goes only so far; look what happened to the Soviets.

credo 15y ago

>>Dr. Cerf said. "This is just a reminder that women are fully capable of doing same or better quality work than men can." I hope those those who needed a reminder about the capabilities of girls or women see this news. However, (and I realize this will be controversial) imo this result doesn't contradict the general notion that girls (in mainstream American culture) are discouraged (by societal and cultural pressures) from engaging in science and engineering. Two of the three girls are Indian-American and these girls presumably don't face the same pressures that most other American girls face. For that matter, I think that women in countries like India, China, Russia etc. are much more represented in science and engineering (in their countries) than native-born women in the US.

Scriptor 15y ago
One possible reason for this is that in those countries science/engineering is often one of the few routes an educated women has available. I've only heard this anecdotally and haven't been able to research it, but it could be one factor.
- pavel_lishin 15y ago
  My mother was born and raised in the USSR, and got a master's degree in engineering (if memory serves correctly). I'll link her to this comment, and see what she has to say (I'll probably end up replying to myself on this comment, I don't know if she'd have any interest in signing up for an account.) edit: can we get a reddit-style "context" option? I want to link her to this comment, and display the two parent comments; if I just link to the 'grandparent', who knows where Scriptor's reply will end up.
  - irahul 15y ago
    Click on the link of the comment you want to forward: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2782258 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2782258
    - pavel_lishin 15y ago

emily37 15y ago

Hmm. To me, the problem with "girl power", etc. is that, as a young female scientist, you're inundated with suggestions that girls are your "team" and boys are your rivals. If you hear enough about "girl power" growing up, you start to feel that you have to represent your gender well: that you have to beat boys on tests (though it doesn't matter if you beat other girls on tests), or that knowing more than a male colleague is something to be proud of. "Girl power" was what I said in elementary school when the girls beat the guys at soccer or something, but when you start to use that sentiment in relation to intellectual abilities, you foster a hostile work environment and you encourage intellectual competition rather than collaboration across gender. On a related note, here's a NYT blog post that I saw recently that highlights the science fair winners' gender and just goes up in flames: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/13/girl-power-wins-at-googles-first-science-fair/ http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/13/girl-power-wins-at-... It ends by suggesting that Google hired Marissa Mayer and Susan Wojcicki because they would help recruit more women, which made me cringe, even though I know that the author probably didn't intend to make exactly that point.

duggan 15y ago

I definitely thought this was going to be an article about the juxtaposition of an all female cast of cleaning professionals with an all male science fair as a broad analogy for the "glass ceiling" effect. Glad to see I was mistaken :)

FraaJad 15y ago

Paging Vivek Wadhwa to write an article about Immigrants' children doing well in STEM. (6 out of 20 finalists are Indian-American) [1] [1] http://www.google.com/events/sciencefair/finalists.html http://www.google.com/events/sciencefair/finalists.html

meow 15y ago
It's actually 5 out of 11 (considering USA). Other finalists are from different countries (including 1 from India)

gooberdlx 15y ago

Go Fort Worth!

gooberdlx 15y ago
-1? The first place girl was from the Fort Worth area and I was showing pride... I don't get downvotes.

bm98 15y ago

The top three winners were all in the health sciences. Had they been in engineering, physical science, or computer science then it would have been more newsworthy given the gender gap in those fields.

smallegan 15y ago

Anyone else think this was going to be about the janitorial staff at the Google Science Fair based on the title?

niels_olson 15y ago

I recall when I was on staff at the Naval Academy, there was a persistent finding in various in-house studies that the female midshipmen got more positive attention and feedback from virtually everyone, from staff and faculty to other midshipmen. Thus paradoxically, going from all male to mostly male made it even less likely for any given male student to find a mentor.

exDM69 15y ago

This is what you get when you replace boys' toys such as lego blocks and meccanos, and to a lesser extent, hack it-yourself-computers like c64's and dos boxes with xboxes. I got my spark for science and engineering when I was a kid by building legos, making electric circuits from a construction kit and learning the baby steps of programming with qbasic.