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The fact that a number of posters feel offended that he would 'install software that takes their picture without consent' simply highlights how necessary such a

The fact that a number of posters feel offended that he would 'install software that takes their picture without consent' simply highlights how necessary such art is -- most people have simply no idea how many times they are photographed each day without their consent. An artist taking a few pictures, in an incredibly public place, should barely stir a ripple in comparison. Consider if software had not been 'installed', but the browser left logged into a Zoom call, etc. Or a web page that looks like a computer game, but has camera permission. Or the feed from the dozens of surveillance cameras inside the Apple Store. At least now we can wear masks.

titzer 5y ago
This is like shitting on someone's car to point out the fact that...birds shit on cars. Installing software on an entire Apple Store's set of display models because one employee supposedly "consented" is a serious violation of their property. The fact this software took pictures of unaware people directly right in their face is gobsmacking. But it was an "art project". At first I was pretty miffed right along with the author that the SS raided them. But with that detail, I am kinda glad they did it! Epicly stupid decision.
- tueirueiru 5y ago
  The Secret Service is abbreviated USSS, not SS as that is associated with the Nazi Schutzstaffel.
  - titzer 5y ago
    How do you know my mistake wasn't intentional? :)
    - MrGilbert 5y ago
      That would make matters worse.
- sellyme 5y ago
  > Installing software on an entire Apple Store's set of display models because one employee supposedly "consented" is a serious violation of their property. I wouldn't have thought that the number of employees asked would be too important here (in comparison to e.g., seniority) - what's your minimum bar of different workers consulted before you'd no longer consider it a violation of Apple's property?
  - technologia 5y ago
    These aren’t franchises where some employee can make that decision, the artist would have had to reach out to Apple’s legal team to get consent to do this at one of their stores. Yea that might be cumbersome and make the work impossible to do but if you were in the employee’s shoes would you really want the onus of all of this on your head?
    - sellyme 5y ago
      > the artist would have had to reach out to Apple’s legal team to get consent to do this at one of their stores Oh that's the smarter thing to do for sure, but you're still going to be contacting one employee (who then potentially contacts other employees). I just found the emphasis on the quantity of employees in the GP comment unusual. > but if you were in the employee’s shoes would you really want the onus of all of this on your head? I would assume that if there was any doubt in their mind they could pretty easily go "I'll have to get my manager". If anyone with experience working at an Apple store can chime in that would be fantastic, but I suspect that a store manager in 2011 would have been able to approve installing software on a demo computer without having to go through legal. Presumably that changed pretty quickly after this stunt though.
      - Aeolun 5y ago
        No store manager in their right mind would approve this though.
- Miner49er 5y ago
  Do people not reguarly install software on display computers? Everytime I've used one (especially phones) they've been full of installed apps. That's illegal?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
throwawayboise 5y ago
Yeah I can't buy a gallon of milk at Kroger now without the whole transaction being recorded on video. They don't have my consent, but they do it anyway.
- yupper32 5y ago
  If you come to my house, you'll get recorded on my Nest cam. Perfectly legal situation. If you come to my house and secretly installed a Nest cam to record me and my guests, that would be illegal. More to the point, if you come to my house and installed spyware on my computer to take pictures of me, that would be illegal. The author is in the second situation. Kroger is in the first. Do you understand the gigantic difference here?
  - trompetenaccoun 5y ago
    If a child gets born into a dystopian world where they can't buy food or as much as take public transport without being tracked, despite them not wanting this nor ever having agreed to it, do you think that would be wrong?
yupper32 5y ago
Not many are offended about taking pictures. What people should be offended by is that so many people on here think it's totally acceptable to install spyware onto computers without the owner's consent. This isn't some kind of whistleblower situation. This is someone fucking around and installing spyware. That's illegal! There's no grey area here, regardless of the lack of action by the AG.
- hulitu 5y ago
  Well, google does it also and i think they wouldn't do anything illegal (like stealing user data in blatant violation of GDPR for example).
- simion314 5y ago
  >That's illegal! Any theories why nothing happened in the end if this is clearly illegal? Maybe because it was a public place, people were already recorded by at least Apple security cameras? Or maybe the law did not applied in this exact case?
  - yupper32 5y ago
    The law absolutely applies. They just decided it wasn't worth their time. Can you imagine a world where the law didn't apply here? I could just go into an Apple store and install whatever software I want on their computers without the law applying at all?
    - simion314 5y ago
      But the computer was opened for you, no TOS that says you can't install software or you can't open this website. I imagine a judge asking Apple why did you not block this "installation" ? did you allowed it or are you incompetent? This computers were setup for public use, no password or security measure so I do not see that is super obvious that the exact same laws apply here as for a private computer.
      - yupper32 5y ago
loosescrews 5y ago
> At least now we can wear masks. I sure hope this remains socially acceptable, but the way things are going, I don't think this will last in the US. I am aware that the first SARS outbreak left a mask wearing culture in parts of Asia, but American culture is pretty different. I was optimistic mask wearing would remain in American culture, but the last month or so has changed my mind. Mask usage in my area has been rapidly dropping and the trend appears to be accelerating. The one things that may keep mask wearing alive (at least in my area) are the wild fires. I have really enjoyed the relative privacy and not worrying about getting sick that mask wearing has provided me. I think this may be the only 1.5 year long stretch of time I haven't gotten sick. It has also really helped with my allergies.
- MrGilbert 5y ago
  > I think this may be the only 1.5 year long stretch of time I haven't gotten sick. Yeah, same. This, plus work from home really helps to not get thrown all sorts of viruses at you. But in my company, wfh has come to an end, and nobody is wearing masks around here. Can't wait to catch my first cold since the start of the pandemic.
- SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
  Mask wearing culture is usually limited to only wearing masks when you’re sick or unwell, not wearing them constantly. It makes sense that people aren’t wearing masks if they’re not sick. The majority of people wouldn’t be wearing masks 24/7. Mask culture only refers to the fact that seeing someone in a mask isn’t unusual.
uncomputation 5y ago
> Consider if software had not been 'installed', but the browser left logged into a Zoom call There’s a difference between someone tripping and someone being pushed down. Usually when people are photographed throughout the day without their consent it’s in the background of someone else’s picture accidentally or via security cameras, not part of some public art installation showing off their “computer face” when they go to an Apple store because some guy wants to make a point about “computer mediated communication.”

titzer 5y ago

This is like shitting on someone's car to point out the fact that...birds shit on cars. Installing software on an entire Apple Store's set of display models because one employee supposedly "consented" is a serious violation of their property. The fact this software took pictures of unaware people directly right in their face is gobsmacking. But it was an "art project". At first I was pretty miffed right along with the author that the SS raided them. But with that detail, I am kinda glad they did it! Epicly stupid decision.

tueirueiru 5y ago
The Secret Service is abbreviated USSS, not SS as that is associated with the Nazi Schutzstaffel.
- titzer 5y ago
  How do you know my mistake wasn't intentional? :)
  - MrGilbert 5y ago
    That would make matters worse.
sellyme 5y ago
> Installing software on an entire Apple Store's set of display models because one employee supposedly "consented" is a serious violation of their property. I wouldn't have thought that the number of employees asked would be too important here (in comparison to e.g., seniority) - what's your minimum bar of different workers consulted before you'd no longer consider it a violation of Apple's property?
- technologia 5y ago
  These aren’t franchises where some employee can make that decision, the artist would have had to reach out to Apple’s legal team to get consent to do this at one of their stores. Yea that might be cumbersome and make the work impossible to do but if you were in the employee’s shoes would you really want the onus of all of this on your head?
  - sellyme 5y ago
    > the artist would have had to reach out to Apple’s legal team to get consent to do this at one of their stores Oh that's the smarter thing to do for sure, but you're still going to be contacting one employee (who then potentially contacts other employees). I just found the emphasis on the quantity of employees in the GP comment unusual. > but if you were in the employee’s shoes would you really want the onus of all of this on your head? I would assume that if there was any doubt in their mind they could pretty easily go "I'll have to get my manager". If anyone with experience working at an Apple store can chime in that would be fantastic, but I suspect that a store manager in 2011 would have been able to approve installing software on a demo computer without having to go through legal. Presumably that changed pretty quickly after this stunt though.
    - Aeolun 5y ago
      No store manager in their right mind would approve this though.
Miner49er 5y ago
Do people not reguarly install software on display computers? Everytime I've used one (especially phones) they've been full of installed apps. That's illegal?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

throwawayboise 5y ago

Yeah I can't buy a gallon of milk at Kroger now without the whole transaction being recorded on video. They don't have my consent, but they do it anyway.

yupper32 5y ago
If you come to my house, you'll get recorded on my Nest cam. Perfectly legal situation. If you come to my house and secretly installed a Nest cam to record me and my guests, that would be illegal. More to the point, if you come to my house and installed spyware on my computer to take pictures of me, that would be illegal. The author is in the second situation. Kroger is in the first. Do you understand the gigantic difference here?
- trompetenaccoun 5y ago
  If a child gets born into a dystopian world where they can't buy food or as much as take public transport without being tracked, despite them not wanting this nor ever having agreed to it, do you think that would be wrong?

yupper32 5y ago

Not many are offended about taking pictures. What people should be offended by is that so many people on here think it's totally acceptable to install spyware onto computers without the owner's consent. This isn't some kind of whistleblower situation. This is someone fucking around and installing spyware. That's illegal! There's no grey area here, regardless of the lack of action by the AG.

hulitu 5y ago
Well, google does it also and i think they wouldn't do anything illegal (like stealing user data in blatant violation of GDPR for example).
simion314 5y ago
>That's illegal! Any theories why nothing happened in the end if this is clearly illegal? Maybe because it was a public place, people were already recorded by at least Apple security cameras? Or maybe the law did not applied in this exact case?
- yupper32 5y ago
  The law absolutely applies. They just decided it wasn't worth their time. Can you imagine a world where the law didn't apply here? I could just go into an Apple store and install whatever software I want on their computers without the law applying at all?
  - simion314 5y ago
    But the computer was opened for you, no TOS that says you can't install software or you can't open this website. I imagine a judge asking Apple why did you not block this "installation" ? did you allowed it or are you incompetent? This computers were setup for public use, no password or security measure so I do not see that is super obvious that the exact same laws apply here as for a private computer.
    - yupper32 5y ago

loosescrews 5y ago

> At least now we can wear masks. I sure hope this remains socially acceptable, but the way things are going, I don't think this will last in the US. I am aware that the first SARS outbreak left a mask wearing culture in parts of Asia, but American culture is pretty different. I was optimistic mask wearing would remain in American culture, but the last month or so has changed my mind. Mask usage in my area has been rapidly dropping and the trend appears to be accelerating. The one things that may keep mask wearing alive (at least in my area) are the wild fires. I have really enjoyed the relative privacy and not worrying about getting sick that mask wearing has provided me. I think this may be the only 1.5 year long stretch of time I haven't gotten sick. It has also really helped with my allergies.

MrGilbert 5y ago
> I think this may be the only 1.5 year long stretch of time I haven't gotten sick. Yeah, same. This, plus work from home really helps to not get thrown all sorts of viruses at you. But in my company, wfh has come to an end, and nobody is wearing masks around here. Can't wait to catch my first cold since the start of the pandemic.
SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
Mask wearing culture is usually limited to only wearing masks when you’re sick or unwell, not wearing them constantly. It makes sense that people aren’t wearing masks if they’re not sick. The majority of people wouldn’t be wearing masks 24/7. Mask culture only refers to the fact that seeing someone in a mask isn’t unusual.

uncomputation 5y ago

> Consider if software had not been 'installed', but the browser left logged into a Zoom call There’s a difference between someone tripping and someone being pushed down. Usually when people are photographed throughout the day without their consent it’s in the background of someone else’s picture accidentally or via security cameras, not part of some public art installation showing off their “computer face” when they go to an Apple store because some guy wants to make a point about “computer mediated communication.”