8 ms·

SciHub needs to be decentralized. Zeronet seems to be a good blueprint on how to do it.

by sprash 5y ago

andai 5y ago
Couldn't we just use something like LimeWire? (Does anything like that exist now?)
- jazzyjackson 5y ago
  See lib gen and r/datahoarders, there are torrents available split into chunks, I think it was 77 terabytes last I checked An interesting question I think, is what value add does Sci-Hub provide, because obviously it wasn’t happening before Alexandra made it happen, does it outgrow her or is she holding it together?
  - devoutsalsa 5y ago
    How about creating SciPubCoin, a blockchain where you get one coin from each published paper you submit!
    - beckman466 5y ago
      > SciPubCoin, a blockchain where you get one coin from each published paper you submit! Probably better to create a system that includes a reputation currency, since you can't 'spend' your reputation: https://medium.com/metacurrency-project/reputation-is-orthogonal-to-exchange-f113a51dab6c https://medium.com/metacurrency-project/reputation-is-orthog...
      - 6510 5y ago
        First the interface problem needs to be solved, after that we get a good picture of adoption. That there are gigantic torrents available is almost useless. A popcorn time type of GUI client is needed that allows search, can dl the right chunks reasonably fast, seeds the rare chunks, has tit for tad implemented for a group of torrents. Could even do full text search by downloading all possible candidates after applying some bloomfilter.
- sva_ 5y ago
  I think it's sorta decentralized. You can download the SQL files (couple GB) from the libgen site and search in it for the IPFS hashes you want, then download p2p from IPFS. A more decentralized way of searching those databases for the hashes would be trickier.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
jazzyjackson 5y ago
I am afraid the basic problems are still not solved with regards to proof of authorship and file integrity - how do I know the pdf I’m downloading is what was published? I’m just in a “be careful what you wish for” state of mind, if there was no one in charge of sci-hub, the publishers could go on attack and fill the database with noise, copies of papers with numbers and methods altered.
- bnj 5y ago
  Sounds like it would be a good idea for authors to start providing checksums for their papers
  - jazzyjackson 5y ago
    Right it’s not insurmountable, authors can publish public keys and sign the files - it’s a UI/UX problem like everything else in crypto. Keybase makes it fairly easy, but people still have to learn what it means and why it’s trustworthy - my bet is things don’t change, there is a small percentage of people who understand how to verify the source, and the general population who either believes anything or nothing. In the context of scientists and professionals tho maybe it is achievable to do some outreach and get people on eg keybase, something user friendly
    - ithkuil 5y ago
      Most people I've been advocating Keybase to, just assumed it's yet another place where you create an account and hence you must trust them (now owned by zoom, boo-hoo). I found it well explained etc, but it's hard to reach everybody.
      - toomuchtodo 5y ago
        Lets say Zoom wanted to sell Keybase. Lets say they wanted to sell it to someone like myself, who would run it in a non profit like a utility, similar to Let's Encrypt. Lets say I'd then integrate it with Stripe Identity and gov IDP providers (US: login.gov, UK: gov.uk verify). This would then allow you to publicly sign damn near everything with an identity you could choose to (but not be required to!) connect to your IRL identity. That sounds what's needed, an extension of your IRL identity with top notch tooling to manage signatures (what PGP/GPG should've been) instead of docusign and similar that are charging an arm and a leg to "sign" PDFs with generated initials and signatures. We could go further; the signature is human readable in the rendered PDF (or whatever), and the Internet Archive takes a snapshot as an oracle notary when published, similar to Certificate Transparency for certs, but for all sorts of digital artifacts (the Internet Archive's snapshots have been used by a court of law for evidence authentication, so it's a trusted system [1]). It ain't hard, it's just work. [1] https://www.theregister.com/2018/09/04/wayback_machine_legit/ https://www.theregister.com/2018/09/04/wayback_machine_legit...
captn3m0 5y ago
A DOI to IPFS directory would be cool. Is it still a copyright violation if you write a hash, but don’t put a IPFS link?
- cassonmars 5y ago
  If the argument holds that a hash is equivalent to holding/sharing the file, there’s some big problems for PhotoDNA given strict liability laws.
- logifail 5y ago
  > A DOI to IPFS directory would be cool Q: How open is the DOI system itself?
  - remram 5y ago
    It's mostly freely readable. It's closed to publishing (gotta pay CrossRef or other licensees) and otherwise a pain to interface with.
generalizations 5y ago
All you really need is a searchable database that points you to the torrent containing the paper you want. Then just download the part of the torrent that you need. Long as the seeders stick around, this is decentralized, simple, and very hard to block. Pretty sure this already exists, too, though it's extremely unpolished.
bluedays 5y ago
I think utilizing Chia coin would actually be a better idea. Incentivize people to donate their hardware space with real money.
- c-cube 5y ago
  Chia is proof of waste, it doesn't store anything useful.

SciHub needs to be decentralized. Zeronet seems to be a good blueprint on how to do it.

by sprash 5y ago

SciHub needs to be decentralized. Zeronet seems to be a good blueprint on how to do it.

andai 5y ago

Couldn't we just use something like LimeWire? (Does anything like that exist now?)

jazzyjackson 5y ago
See lib gen and r/datahoarders, there are torrents available split into chunks, I think it was 77 terabytes last I checked An interesting question I think, is what value add does Sci-Hub provide, because obviously it wasn’t happening before Alexandra made it happen, does it outgrow her or is she holding it together?
- devoutsalsa 5y ago
  How about creating SciPubCoin, a blockchain where you get one coin from each published paper you submit!
  - beckman466 5y ago
    > SciPubCoin, a blockchain where you get one coin from each published paper you submit! Probably better to create a system that includes a reputation currency, since you can't 'spend' your reputation: https://medium.com/metacurrency-project/reputation-is-orthogonal-to-exchange-f113a51dab6c https://medium.com/metacurrency-project/reputation-is-orthog...
    - 6510 5y ago
      First the interface problem needs to be solved, after that we get a good picture of adoption. That there are gigantic torrents available is almost useless. A popcorn time type of GUI client is needed that allows search, can dl the right chunks reasonably fast, seeds the rare chunks, has tit for tad implemented for a group of torrents. Could even do full text search by downloading all possible candidates after applying some bloomfilter.
sva_ 5y ago
I think it's sorta decentralized. You can download the SQL files (couple GB) from the libgen site and search in it for the IPFS hashes you want, then download p2p from IPFS. A more decentralized way of searching those databases for the hashes would be trickier.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

jazzyjackson 5y ago

I am afraid the basic problems are still not solved with regards to proof of authorship and file integrity - how do I know the pdf I’m downloading is what was published? I’m just in a “be careful what you wish for” state of mind, if there was no one in charge of sci-hub, the publishers could go on attack and fill the database with noise, copies of papers with numbers and methods altered.

bnj 5y ago
Sounds like it would be a good idea for authors to start providing checksums for their papers
- jazzyjackson 5y ago
  Right it’s not insurmountable, authors can publish public keys and sign the files - it’s a UI/UX problem like everything else in crypto. Keybase makes it fairly easy, but people still have to learn what it means and why it’s trustworthy - my bet is things don’t change, there is a small percentage of people who understand how to verify the source, and the general population who either believes anything or nothing. In the context of scientists and professionals tho maybe it is achievable to do some outreach and get people on eg keybase, something user friendly
  - ithkuil 5y ago
    Most people I've been advocating Keybase to, just assumed it's yet another place where you create an account and hence you must trust them (now owned by zoom, boo-hoo). I found it well explained etc, but it's hard to reach everybody.
    - toomuchtodo 5y ago
      Lets say Zoom wanted to sell Keybase. Lets say they wanted to sell it to someone like myself, who would run it in a non profit like a utility, similar to Let's Encrypt. Lets say I'd then integrate it with Stripe Identity and gov IDP providers (US: login.gov, UK: gov.uk verify). This would then allow you to publicly sign damn near everything with an identity you could choose to (but not be required to!) connect to your IRL identity. That sounds what's needed, an extension of your IRL identity with top notch tooling to manage signatures (what PGP/GPG should've been) instead of docusign and similar that are charging an arm and a leg to "sign" PDFs with generated initials and signatures. We could go further; the signature is human readable in the rendered PDF (or whatever), and the Internet Archive takes a snapshot as an oracle notary when published, similar to Certificate Transparency for certs, but for all sorts of digital artifacts (the Internet Archive's snapshots have been used by a court of law for evidence authentication, so it's a trusted system [1]). It ain't hard, it's just work. [1] https://www.theregister.com/2018/09/04/wayback_machine_legit/ https://www.theregister.com/2018/09/04/wayback_machine_legit...

captn3m0 5y ago

A DOI to IPFS directory would be cool. Is it still a copyright violation if you write a hash, but don’t put a IPFS link?

cassonmars 5y ago
If the argument holds that a hash is equivalent to holding/sharing the file, there’s some big problems for PhotoDNA given strict liability laws.
logifail 5y ago
> A DOI to IPFS directory would be cool Q: How open is the DOI system itself?
- remram 5y ago
  It's mostly freely readable. It's closed to publishing (gotta pay CrossRef or other licensees) and otherwise a pain to interface with.

generalizations 5y ago

All you really need is a searchable database that points you to the torrent containing the paper you want. Then just download the part of the torrent that you need. Long as the seeders stick around, this is decentralized, simple, and very hard to block. Pretty sure this already exists, too, though it's extremely unpolished.

bluedays 5y ago

I think utilizing Chia coin would actually be a better idea. Incentivize people to donate their hardware space with real money.

c-cube 5y ago
Chia is proof of waste, it doesn't store anything useful.