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The waste from solar panels can be toxic. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/story/solar-panels-are-starting-to-die-leaving-behind-toxic-trash/amp http

by ipaddr 5y ago

The waste from solar panels can be toxic. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/story/solar-panels-are-starting-to-die-leaving-behind-toxic-trash/amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/story/solar-panel... We might be replacing one problem with another. We need to move on from toxic solar to some unknown fuel of the future.

adrianN 5y ago
We're replacing the problem where we dump waste in the atmosphere with no clear path to ever getting it back out with the problem of storing potentially hazardous solids. The latter seems to be a much better problem to have. We already have that problem with most things we produce and we are moderately good at handling it.
onethought 5y ago
But you can recycle them. Even says so in the article… so we just need a good recycling program. Not an option with fossil fuels, or nuclear or your super special unknown future energy source
neartheplain 5y ago
I don't know anything about solar panel recycling, but it's worth noting that other means of power generation via solar energy exist [1][2][3], most of which depend on mirror-concentrated heat and don't necessarily involve toxic chemicals or rare earth mineral extraction. Photovoltaics have largely left these technologies in the dust, but if the long tail of solar panel production becomes a significant environmental concern, alternatives do exist. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar-powered_Stirling_engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar-powered_Stirling_engine [2] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/new-concentrating-solar-tower-is-worth-its-salt-with-24-7-power/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/new-concentrating... [3] https://www.seia.org/initiatives/concentrating-solar-power https://www.seia.org/initiatives/concentrating-solar-power
- cinquemb 5y ago
  > Photovoltaics have largely left these technologies in the dust How so? CSP tech continues to advance on multiple levels and usage continues to grow globally at grid scale with advances with tech in the solar field, concentrator design [1] and molten salt storage [2]. PV is not currently competitive at grid scale on its own (I've seen it being used more recently in tandem with CSP, but more like CSP providing most [gt 70%] of the MW), because storage costs are joke (wrt underlying materials for batteries and recyclability[3][4]) compared to molten salt (I'm totally ignoring environmental concerns). I really think PV has more of an edge in small consumer market that wants/needs no storage at all. [1] https://www.solarpaces.org/beam-down-demos-first-direct-solar-storage-at-1-2-mwh-scale/ https://www.solarpaces.org/beam-down-demos-first-direct-sola... [2] https://www.solarpaces.org/for-100-renewables-doe-speeds-up-storage-policy/ https://www.solarpaces.org/for-100-renewables-doe-speeds-up-... [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25383534 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25383534 [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25403694 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25403694
jlmorton 5y ago
It's really bizarre that whenever solar is mentioned, someone chimes in with some claim about toxic materials in the panels, yet rarely do you hear these complaints about other ubiquitous products with hazardous materials, like televisions, laptops, fluorescent light bulbs, microwaves, or anything else. The recovery rate for solar panels in developed countries is already close to 100%. Very few people are going to simply dispose of them in the trash, because they don't fit in the trash, and the contractors they work with are not going to dump them in the woods.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  It is not bizarre if everyone keeps bring up the same issue. In your area they will be picked up and shipped to another country with lower environmental standards for disassembling. These are some of the chemicals of concern: cadmium telluride, copper indium selenide, cadmium gallium (di)selenide, copper indium gallium (di)selenide, hexafluoroethane, lead, and polyvinyl fluoride. Additionally, silicon tetrachloride, a byproduct of producing crystalline silicon, is highly toxic
  - Robotbeat 5y ago
    Silicon tetrachloride being a “highly toxic” “byproduct of producing crystalline silicon” is a new astroturfing mantra I’ve seen repeated lately. Too bad it’s recycled as part of the process (and is useful on its own for making high purity optical fibers) or solar enemies might have a point! It is an intermediate product, not a waste product.
    - philipkglass 5y ago
      There was a highly publicized story in 2008 about Chinese silicon companies dumping it illegally. Ever since it's been repeatedly invoked as anti-solar ammunition. It's like constantly warning about melamine poisoning from milk because an unscrupulous company did that before too.
    - kortex 5y ago
      Additionally, in 2011 China set standards requiring that companies recycle at least 98.5 percent of their silicon tetrachloride waste. It's fairly easy and cost effective to recycle once you have the infrastructure in place. It seems most of the pollution reports are from before the mandate and also when precursors were way cheaper relative to the final product.
imtringued 5y ago
If you look for waste all you see is waste.

by ipaddr 5y ago

adrianN 5y ago

We're replacing the problem where we dump waste in the atmosphere with no clear path to ever getting it back out with the problem of storing potentially hazardous solids. The latter seems to be a much better problem to have. We already have that problem with most things we produce and we are moderately good at handling it.

onethought 5y ago

But you can recycle them. Even says so in the article… so we just need a good recycling program. Not an option with fossil fuels, or nuclear or your super special unknown future energy source

neartheplain 5y ago

I don't know anything about solar panel recycling, but it's worth noting that other means of power generation via solar energy exist [1][2][3], most of which depend on mirror-concentrated heat and don't necessarily involve toxic chemicals or rare earth mineral extraction. Photovoltaics have largely left these technologies in the dust, but if the long tail of solar panel production becomes a significant environmental concern, alternatives do exist. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar-powered_Stirling_engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar-powered_Stirling_engine [2] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/new-concentrating-solar-tower-is-worth-its-salt-with-24-7-power/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/new-concentrating... [3] https://www.seia.org/initiatives/concentrating-solar-power https://www.seia.org/initiatives/concentrating-solar-power

cinquemb 5y ago
> Photovoltaics have largely left these technologies in the dust How so? CSP tech continues to advance on multiple levels and usage continues to grow globally at grid scale with advances with tech in the solar field, concentrator design [1] and molten salt storage [2]. PV is not currently competitive at grid scale on its own (I've seen it being used more recently in tandem with CSP, but more like CSP providing most [gt 70%] of the MW), because storage costs are joke (wrt underlying materials for batteries and recyclability[3][4]) compared to molten salt (I'm totally ignoring environmental concerns). I really think PV has more of an edge in small consumer market that wants/needs no storage at all. [1] https://www.solarpaces.org/beam-down-demos-first-direct-solar-storage-at-1-2-mwh-scale/ https://www.solarpaces.org/beam-down-demos-first-direct-sola... [2] https://www.solarpaces.org/for-100-renewables-doe-speeds-up-storage-policy/ https://www.solarpaces.org/for-100-renewables-doe-speeds-up-... [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25383534 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25383534 [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25403694 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25403694

jlmorton 5y ago

It's really bizarre that whenever solar is mentioned, someone chimes in with some claim about toxic materials in the panels, yet rarely do you hear these complaints about other ubiquitous products with hazardous materials, like televisions, laptops, fluorescent light bulbs, microwaves, or anything else. The recovery rate for solar panels in developed countries is already close to 100%. Very few people are going to simply dispose of them in the trash, because they don't fit in the trash, and the contractors they work with are not going to dump them in the woods.

ipaddr 5y ago
It is not bizarre if everyone keeps bring up the same issue. In your area they will be picked up and shipped to another country with lower environmental standards for disassembling. These are some of the chemicals of concern: cadmium telluride, copper indium selenide, cadmium gallium (di)selenide, copper indium gallium (di)selenide, hexafluoroethane, lead, and polyvinyl fluoride. Additionally, silicon tetrachloride, a byproduct of producing crystalline silicon, is highly toxic
- Robotbeat 5y ago
  Silicon tetrachloride being a “highly toxic” “byproduct of producing crystalline silicon” is a new astroturfing mantra I’ve seen repeated lately. Too bad it’s recycled as part of the process (and is useful on its own for making high purity optical fibers) or solar enemies might have a point! It is an intermediate product, not a waste product.
  - philipkglass 5y ago
    There was a highly publicized story in 2008 about Chinese silicon companies dumping it illegally. Ever since it's been repeatedly invoked as anti-solar ammunition. It's like constantly warning about melamine poisoning from milk because an unscrupulous company did that before too.
  - kortex 5y ago
    Additionally, in 2011 China set standards requiring that companies recycle at least 98.5 percent of their silicon tetrachloride waste. It's fairly easy and cost effective to recycle once you have the infrastructure in place. It seems most of the pollution reports are from before the mandate and also when precursors were way cheaper relative to the final product.

imtringued 5y ago

If you look for waste all you see is waste.