5 ms·

Yeah. And payoff times are like 12-15 years. It sure doesn’t seem cheap here.

llamataboot 5y ago
But what’s the cost of the externalities of non-renewable energy? Solar isn’t perfect, but at this point I’d say it’s actually cheaper than coal (still nowhere close to nuclear) once we talk about actual costs of using it to make energy.
post_break 5y ago
In the short run sure. But electricity isn't going to get cheaper. Think of it like prepaying your electricity bill for 15 years, and then after that, it's free.
- 6f8986c3 5y ago
  Don’t solar panels have a life span of like 20 years?
  - dv_dt 5y ago
    Typically they’re warranted to keep supplying something like 80% at the 20 year mark. They’ll actually keep producing a lot longer than that.
    - 6f8986c3 5y ago
      I did not know that. Thanks!
    - dboreham 5y ago
      They can however fail like any piece of electronics (source: I owned a panel that failed due to cell foil contact separation).
      - dv_dt 5y ago
        So I assume the panel was replaced under warranty? Was everything pretty much covered, or maybe you had to pay for some installer labor?
  - post_break 5y ago
    The panels I will be installing guarantee 90% output after 25 years.
  - clncy 5y ago
    The life span of the inverter also needs to be considered
  - pfdietz 5y ago
    Europe's oldest grid-connected PV system is 35 years old, and still running. Inverters had to be replaced 5 times though. https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/07/02/exploring-the-depths-of-europes-oldest-grid-connected-pv-system/ https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/07/02/exploring-the-depths-...
- vkou 5y ago
  The problem is that if you ever sell, your home's clearing price won't accurately capture the money you put in, and the value of your solar installation.
  - post_break 5y ago
    I don't plan on selling, but the fact that my home will have $0 electric bill should help swing the price higher.
    - vkou 5y ago
      It should, but it won't swing it up as much as it should, because the market is (currently) irrational.
- bpodgursky 5y ago
  Well really, if solar keeps getting cheaper and better, electricity will get cheaper too. (I don't mean to deter you, I dropped 20k on home solar, but it wasn't really for the economics).
  - minitoar 5y ago
    Maybe not, given Jevons paradox. Bitcoin is almost a pure manifestation of this.
  - Ekaros 5y ago
    It's interesting thing to consider really. As solar gets cheaper also the cost of electricity generated when solar power is available gets cheaper. So it might even make sense not to install it yourself, but instead buy it when there is inevitable over production. And price at those times might as well be zero.
andrei_says_ 5y ago
I also see a payoff in not burning coal / gas for this particular household’s power for decades to come.

But what’s the cost of the externalities of non-renewable energy? Solar isn’t perfect, but at this point I’d say it’s actually cheaper than coal (still nowhere close to nuclear) once we talk about actual costs of using it to make energy.

post_break 5y ago

In the short run sure. But electricity isn't going to get cheaper. Think of it like prepaying your electricity bill for 15 years, and then after that, it's free.

6f8986c3 5y ago
Don’t solar panels have a life span of like 20 years?
- dv_dt 5y ago
  Typically they’re warranted to keep supplying something like 80% at the 20 year mark. They’ll actually keep producing a lot longer than that.
  - 6f8986c3 5y ago
    I did not know that. Thanks!
  - dboreham 5y ago
    They can however fail like any piece of electronics (source: I owned a panel that failed due to cell foil contact separation).
    - dv_dt 5y ago
      So I assume the panel was replaced under warranty? Was everything pretty much covered, or maybe you had to pay for some installer labor?
- post_break 5y ago
  The panels I will be installing guarantee 90% output after 25 years.
- clncy 5y ago
  The life span of the inverter also needs to be considered
- pfdietz 5y ago
  Europe's oldest grid-connected PV system is 35 years old, and still running. Inverters had to be replaced 5 times though. https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/07/02/exploring-the-depths-of-europes-oldest-grid-connected-pv-system/ https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/07/02/exploring-the-depths-...
vkou 5y ago
The problem is that if you ever sell, your home's clearing price won't accurately capture the money you put in, and the value of your solar installation.
- post_break 5y ago
  I don't plan on selling, but the fact that my home will have $0 electric bill should help swing the price higher.
  - vkou 5y ago
    It should, but it won't swing it up as much as it should, because the market is (currently) irrational.
bpodgursky 5y ago
Well really, if solar keeps getting cheaper and better, electricity will get cheaper too. (I don't mean to deter you, I dropped 20k on home solar, but it wasn't really for the economics).
- minitoar 5y ago
  Maybe not, given Jevons paradox. Bitcoin is almost a pure manifestation of this.
- Ekaros 5y ago
  It's interesting thing to consider really. As solar gets cheaper also the cost of electricity generated when solar power is available gets cheaper. So it might even make sense not to install it yourself, but instead buy it when there is inevitable over production. And price at those times might as well be zero.

andrei_says_ 5y ago

I also see a payoff in not burning coal / gas for this particular household’s power for decades to come.