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>These stickers in the 70s, mostly on polluting Citroen 2CVs used to really piss me off What? A 2CV is a tiny, lightweight car, with a miniature engine. How mu

>These stickers in the 70s, mostly on polluting Citroen 2CVs used to really piss me off What? A 2CV is a tiny, lightweight car, with a miniature engine. How much pollution can it possibly throw out already? Surely far less than many brand new cars today. I know you can actually almost see the petrol fumes coming out of some big old cars, but to go after 2CV owners is absurd IMO. Although i'm not any kind of expert, so i might be wrong. "Green 2CV".

zabzonk 5y ago
It's the engines that do the polluting.
enragedcacti 5y ago
According to Wikipedia it seems the car was effectively killed by the 1992 (introduced in '89) European Emissions Standards. Emissions tech has come a long way; just looking at the legal max emissions, the 2CV failed to 2.72g/km CO emissions while the legal max since 2006 has been 1g/km CO. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_2CV#1980%E2%80%931990 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_2CV#1980%E2%80%93... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards#Emission_standards_for_passenger_cars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards#Em...
- Scoundreller 5y ago
  > From a technical perspective, European emissions standards do not reflect everyday usage of the vehicle as manufacturers are allowed to lighten the vehicle by removing the back seats, improve aerodynamics by taping over grilles and door handles or reduce the load on the generator by switching off the headlights, the passenger compartment fan or simply disconnecting the alternator which charges the battery. Ugh
  - bserge 5y ago
    That's hilarious. Just... Why? Either set realistic targets or test them properly, this isn't Formula 1 for emissions.
    - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
      The testing governments are also eager for those automotive industry (and their vast network of suppliers) jobs for their voters, so that in turn the voters feel economically happy and keep them in power...
      - ithkuil 5y ago
        I don't buy this argument. Surely if the rules are the same for everybody that wouldn't harm the industry?!
        bellyfullofbac 5y ago
        https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/sep/24/uk-france-and-germany-lobbied-for-flawed-car-emissions-tests-documents-reveal https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/sep/24/uk-franc... I guess they try to sell the "our party cares about the environment" to win (i.e. lie to) voters, but at the same time they care about their industries, and old emission standards are easier to comply to. I can imagine they know research for better emissions is hard, but building cars to antiquated standards is easy and can keep more people employed... A bit like Angela Merkel, after many years of not wanting to, suddenly agreeing to a timeline to shut down German nuclear power plants a few days after Fukushima and a few days before a state election (her stunt didn't help, the Greens still won a majority of the votes).
        ithkuil 5y ago
        Should something harder require more people to be employed?
uluyol 5y ago
Ever seen a two-stroke lawnmower at work? Engine tech makes a big difference, as do catalytic converters.
fnord77 5y ago
> The EPA estimates that hour-for-hour, gasoline powered lawn mowers produce 11 times as much pollution as a new car.
ithkuil 5y ago
2CV mounted engines ranging from 375 cc 9HP to 602 cc 29HP It's a four stroke flat twin (boxer engine). It's far less efficient and I expect it to be more polluting than a modern engine, but I don't know how to search for objective measures of such pollution.

zabzonk 5y ago

It's the engines that do the polluting.

enragedcacti 5y ago

According to Wikipedia it seems the car was effectively killed by the 1992 (introduced in '89) European Emissions Standards. Emissions tech has come a long way; just looking at the legal max emissions, the 2CV failed to 2.72g/km CO emissions while the legal max since 2006 has been 1g/km CO. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_2CV#1980%E2%80%931990 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_2CV#1980%E2%80%93... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards#Emission_standards_for_passenger_cars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards#Em...

Scoundreller 5y ago
> From a technical perspective, European emissions standards do not reflect everyday usage of the vehicle as manufacturers are allowed to lighten the vehicle by removing the back seats, improve aerodynamics by taping over grilles and door handles or reduce the load on the generator by switching off the headlights, the passenger compartment fan or simply disconnecting the alternator which charges the battery. Ugh
- bserge 5y ago
  That's hilarious. Just... Why? Either set realistic targets or test them properly, this isn't Formula 1 for emissions.
  - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
    The testing governments are also eager for those automotive industry (and their vast network of suppliers) jobs for their voters, so that in turn the voters feel economically happy and keep them in power...
    - ithkuil 5y ago
      I don't buy this argument. Surely if the rules are the same for everybody that wouldn't harm the industry?!
      - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
        https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/sep/24/uk-france-and-germany-lobbied-for-flawed-car-emissions-tests-documents-reveal https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/sep/24/uk-franc... I guess they try to sell the "our party cares about the environment" to win (i.e. lie to) voters, but at the same time they care about their industries, and old emission standards are easier to comply to. I can imagine they know research for better emissions is hard, but building cars to antiquated standards is easy and can keep more people employed... A bit like Angela Merkel, after many years of not wanting to, suddenly agreeing to a timeline to shut down German nuclear power plants a few days after Fukushima and a few days before a state election (her stunt didn't help, the Greens still won a majority of the votes).
        ithkuil 5y ago
        Should something harder require more people to be employed?

uluyol 5y ago

Ever seen a two-stroke lawnmower at work? Engine tech makes a big difference, as do catalytic converters.

fnord77 5y ago

> The EPA estimates that hour-for-hour, gasoline powered lawn mowers produce 11 times as much pollution as a new car.

ithkuil 5y ago

2CV mounted engines ranging from 375 cc 9HP to 602 cc 29HP It's a four stroke flat twin (boxer engine). It's far less efficient and I expect it to be more polluting than a modern engine, but I don't know how to search for objective measures of such pollution.