6 ms·

That's one side of the story, if anyone cares to read the other, this appears to be the mailing list thread that is being referred to: https://lists.linuxaudio.

That's one side of the story, if anyone cares to read the other, this appears to be the mailing list thread that is being referred to: https://lists.linuxaudio.org/archives/linux-audio-dev/2021-February/037954.html https://lists.linuxaudio.org/archives/linux-audio-dev/2021-F... Then there's also this reddit comment: https://old.reddit.com/r/linuxaudio/comments/lk3u74/non_session_manager_vs_new_session_manager/gnine0o/ https://old.reddit.com/r/linuxaudio/comments/lk3u74/non_sess... > New Session Manager was created as a fork because Non Session Manager grew stale and Jonathan was very abrasive to work with [..] getting PRs/patches merged didn't go anywhere. > Also Jonathan (the Non suite creator) removed all his repos [..], which is something that's obviously not acceptable behavior. The "new session manager" appears to be on GitHub: https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager Please also note that this drama is months old at this point.

mastrsushi 5y ago
I figured something was up, the original author’s post reeked of bitterness.
wwweston 5y ago
The truly surprising behavior to me is choosing to name the forked project nsm. Fork the heck out of anything for any reason you like. Say critical things on mailing lists. Fight over who's right and who's a jerk. But actions which lead to less clarity -- like, say, polluting a claimed name in the process of making a fork -- doesn't look like good faith to me.
- chmod775 5y ago
  > The truly surprising behavior to me is choosing to name the forked project nsm. I think the point was having the binary be of the same name, so it could work as a drop-in replacement that is compatible with existing software.
  - dogorman 5y ago
    New's bogus insinuation that Non had ads or spyware makes me disinclined to buy this innocent justification.
    - bhaney 5y ago
      This seems like a very reasonable comment and I had exactly the same thought, yet I found this comment dead and had to vouch for it. Can any of the downvoters explain why? Or was this somehow automatic?
      - oefrha 5y ago
        Some new accounts are automatically dead on arrival or if they post too quickly, and have to be vouched. Nothing sinister about it.
        bhaney 5y ago
        Didn't mean to imply sinisterness. Was wondering if an automatic process like that existed, so thanks for the confirmation.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - fundamental 5y ago
      IIRC (anyone else in LAD-proper correct me) the insinuation came from using some standard boilerplate in a release announcement for the fork. The fork's release tagline outlined what open source was and how it is beneficial to users. Specifically there was mention of the fork not having any spyware/ads in it. I agree with the posted article that saying "X doesn't have Y" from the fork implies that it is a differentiating factor, but it doesn't strike me as an intentionally malicious act. More of just not being familiar how such release blurbs would be read when applied to a forked project.
  - pdmccormick 5y ago
    Wouldn’t a compatibility symlink or shell script have been enough?
discardable_dan 5y ago
Can you clarify what features did the new NWS add that old NWS was refusing to add? That seems like the crux of the entire tiff, and without that knowledge it's very difficult to discern which side is more reasonable. Edit: Honestly, some of the initial commits to the new repository are more in line with Liles' account: https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commits/master?after=86cd1489bf962bdd4b0fd175a564270a1c5271da+139&branch=master https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commits/mas... Starting in April 2020, changes include: - Dumping the timeline, sequencer, and mixer: https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/80e9f4bd0931a2989c1e303dc830c742fe1da315 https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/80e9... - Removing any thing with logos or icons, e.g., "filing the serial number off": https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/7992fec7a1d9b323b3e70680a06380ce5e30a590 https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/7992... - Enable debug mode / verbose mode by default: https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/397572308a3c2b23f9bd1e5f2a3ab666e5f0d877 https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/3975... - Change project build system over to meson: https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/e431cd55aec9e3e522849ae81dd013bc82aa3d87 https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/e431... (plus others) - Update build system to exclude current GUI / make it optional: https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/63e6f0eac3ba4c72168e14fecf1715d0475113dc https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/63e6... - Set up symlinking by default in install: https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/3681fa63e8557a24c063fe7ebaae041603a003ed https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/3681... - Force the project onto GPL3, more serial numbers filing: https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/2731c9d0d170a3296fe43ae4cb0bde81e4419f56 https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/2731... After that is a number of fixes. Unfortuantely, from this list of "immediate" changes, it reads like the Argodejo developers decided they would be the preferred GUI, and decided to fork the project to abandon the current GUI. The README was even modified to this end: https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/7f237fe5d5c21ee9cfe3ebddf908c3464ab3a781 https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/7f23... They also forced the project onto a different build system, and made new (and possibly incorrect) assumptions about installation. If the fixes came first (build fixes, etc.) and the other work came later, I would have a more-charitable view of this fork. Unfortunately, the immediate changelog sort of speaks for itself: they forked NSM, filed off all the names, changed over the licensing and build system, and ripped out the GUI. Then, a few months later, they actually started fixing bugs. The motivation here really seems to be subsuming ownership and default UI. This really just looks like a classic internet slap fight. Of course, this is only conjecture from the git commit history, but... it's supported by the git commit history.

mastrsushi 5y ago

I figured something was up, the original author’s post reeked of bitterness.

wwweston 5y ago

The truly surprising behavior to me is choosing to name the forked project nsm. Fork the heck out of anything for any reason you like. Say critical things on mailing lists. Fight over who's right and who's a jerk. But actions which lead to less clarity -- like, say, polluting a claimed name in the process of making a fork -- doesn't look like good faith to me.

chmod775 5y ago
> The truly surprising behavior to me is choosing to name the forked project nsm. I think the point was having the binary be of the same name, so it could work as a drop-in replacement that is compatible with existing software.
- dogorman 5y ago
  New's bogus insinuation that Non had ads or spyware makes me disinclined to buy this innocent justification.
  - bhaney 5y ago
    This seems like a very reasonable comment and I had exactly the same thought, yet I found this comment dead and had to vouch for it. Can any of the downvoters explain why? Or was this somehow automatic?
    - oefrha 5y ago
      Some new accounts are automatically dead on arrival or if they post too quickly, and have to be vouched. Nothing sinister about it.
      - bhaney 5y ago
        Didn't mean to imply sinisterness. Was wondering if an automatic process like that existed, so thanks for the confirmation.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - fundamental 5y ago
    IIRC (anyone else in LAD-proper correct me) the insinuation came from using some standard boilerplate in a release announcement for the fork. The fork's release tagline outlined what open source was and how it is beneficial to users. Specifically there was mention of the fork not having any spyware/ads in it. I agree with the posted article that saying "X doesn't have Y" from the fork implies that it is a differentiating factor, but it doesn't strike me as an intentionally malicious act. More of just not being familiar how such release blurbs would be read when applied to a forked project.
- pdmccormick 5y ago
  Wouldn’t a compatibility symlink or shell script have been enough?

discardable_dan 5y ago

Can you clarify what features did the new NWS add that old NWS was refusing to add? That seems like the crux of the entire tiff, and without that knowledge it's very difficult to discern which side is more reasonable. Edit: Honestly, some of the initial commits to the new repository are more in line with Liles' account: https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commits/master?after=86cd1489bf962bdd4b0fd175a564270a1c5271da+139&branch=master https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commits/mas... Starting in April 2020, changes include: - Dumping the timeline, sequencer, and mixer: https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/80e9f4bd0931a2989c1e303dc830c742fe1da315 https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/80e9... - Removing any thing with logos or icons, e.g., "filing the serial number off": https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/7992fec7a1d9b323b3e70680a06380ce5e30a590 https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/7992... - Enable debug mode / verbose mode by default: https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/397572308a3c2b23f9bd1e5f2a3ab666e5f0d877 https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/3975... - Change project build system over to meson: https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/e431cd55aec9e3e522849ae81dd013bc82aa3d87 https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/e431... (plus others) - Update build system to exclude current GUI / make it optional: https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/63e6f0eac3ba4c72168e14fecf1715d0475113dc https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/63e6... - Set up symlinking by default in install: https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/3681fa63e8557a24c063fe7ebaae041603a003ed https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/3681... - Force the project onto GPL3, more serial numbers filing: https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/2731c9d0d170a3296fe43ae4cb0bde81e4419f56 https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/2731... After that is a number of fixes. Unfortuantely, from this list of "immediate" changes, it reads like the Argodejo developers decided they would be the preferred GUI, and decided to fork the project to abandon the current GUI. The README was even modified to this end: https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/7f237fe5d5c21ee9cfe3ebddf908c3464ab3a781 https://github.com/jackaudio/new-session-manager/commit/7f23... They also forced the project onto a different build system, and made new (and possibly incorrect) assumptions about installation. If the fixes came first (build fixes, etc.) and the other work came later, I would have a more-charitable view of this fork. Unfortunately, the immediate changelog sort of speaks for itself: they forked NSM, filed off all the names, changed over the licensing and build system, and ripped out the GUI. Then, a few months later, they actually started fixing bugs. The motivation here really seems to be subsuming ownership and default UI. This really just looks like a classic internet slap fight. Of course, this is only conjecture from the git commit history, but... it's supported by the git commit history.