4 ms·

At the end of the day, I kinda don't think this is a big deal. Roupenian was careless not to scrub real-life personal details out of Cat Person, but I think wha

At the end of the day, I kinda don't think this is a big deal. Roupenian was careless not to scrub real-life personal details out of Cat Person, but I think what happened was a bit of a freak accident that she unfortunately failed to foresee, and she apologized. It does make you wonder how much you can trust supposedly slice-of-life fiction, if a friend of one of the "characters" finds the story a poor representation of the person they knew. I suspect some of the darkness in Roupenian's stories comes from a twist in her own perspective, not necessarily from the awfulness of men she's dated.

bitwize 5y ago
Roupenian kind of gave a sorry-not-sorry apology. There's a subtext of "I'm sorry I used your friend's personal details, but you're missing the point which is that the story is fake but accurate -- male anger escalates into threats and violence and by calling me out you're adding fuel to the incel fire I'm facing right now because I'm a woman who writes about the bad things men do." And a deeper subtext of "Remember, sister, I am not the villain here; the patriarchy is."
- civilized 5y ago
  Maybe Roupenian actually, literally faces threats from men who didn't like her story. It... wouldn't be the first time people harassed a writer for a creative work they took to be offensive.
  - mlyle 5y ago
    Nothing justifies threats. But in this case, the reasons that this would offend people -- that it makes untrue and unfair accusations about a real-world case-- are true. Or even worse than one would assume, even, in that it's not autobiographical and does the same about identifiable third parties.
    - tptacek 5y ago
      It does not in fact make untrue and unfair accusations about a real world case. It is a work of fiction. Until this Slate article came out, there were, like, 4 people in the world that know about the story's inspiration.
      - jollybean 5y ago
        It's not really about 'real world, individual people'. It's a #MeToo era-story which is used to narrate supposedly 'real world threats'. The reason that some might be upset, is because you have a real world story of a 'nice guy' - who was used as the basis to narrative a story about how 'men are bad' aka a warning about 'toxic masculinity' etc.. Here is 'The Atlantic's headline of the original 2017 publication: "The depiction of uncomfortable romance in "Cat Person" seems to resonate with countless women." [1] Here is NPR's headline: "'Cat Person' Author's New Book Evokes #MeToo Themes" [2] WaPo: "Opinion: ‘Cat Person’ is a next step in the #MeToo movement" [3] So that's literally the first three pieces that came up in the Google search - and those three publications are 'major, respected, institutions'. All three are using the 'creative fiction' to promote a narrative about men's supposed actions etc.. It's obviously not just about 'some random bit of fiction that happened to be about real people and those real people are upset'. If this was Stephen King, who used his 'Real Life Doctor' as the inspiration for some diabolical character - that would be the story. But there wouldn't be any elevation of the story into some kind of narrative in that case ... so it'd just be about a possibly upset Doctor. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/12/a-viral-short-story-for-the-metoo-moment/548009/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/12/a-vir... [2] https://www.npr.org/2019/01/13/684894872/cat-person-author-s-new-book-evokes-metoo-themes https://www.npr.org/2019/01/13/684894872/cat-person-author-s... [3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2017/12/11/why-cat-person-went-viral/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2017/1... Edit: Here's a gem [4] it's literally an academic publication using the original story as basis for describing narcissism in the role of the oppression of women. "I argue that Beauvoir’s notion of narcissism is an important tool for feminists today—well beyond the interpretation of Cat Person. It presses us to see systematic subordination not just as something done to women, but also as something women do to themselves. This in turn highlights the neglected role of self-transformation as a key aspect of feminist political resistance." This is pseudo-intellectual hyperbole (published!) over a story that amounts to a giant lie. It's intellectual bigotry. [4] https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjE6eW61NfxAhUESN8KHazTCakQFjARegQIFhAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Fphilarchive.org%2Farchive%2FMELHVH&usg=AOvVaw1gAKHoUWZ9U6C0lxUE_pS2 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c...
jollybean 5y ago
The issue has nothing to do with creative fiction. Nobody is bothered by stories that might use real life as a basis of inspiration. The issue is that these stories are latched onto as 'narrative basis' for some kind of populist ideal, which may frankly just be bigotry. The story was not picked up upon because it was just 'great writing' - it created buzz because it engendered a kind of bigoted fantasy among those that wanted to buy into the potential truthiness of it all. Like the 'Man Next Door Who Raped The White Girl' (i.e. Black man) from the 'Reader's Digest', 1952 etc. It's an issue because people can do whatever they want under the guise of creative fiction, and then try to use it as some kind of scare mongering re: 'This could happen! This is happening!' I'm Canadian, we had to read the Handmaid's Tale in school. Margaret Atwood is famous for saying 'all these things happened somewhere in history' - essentially she cherry picked the absolute worst bits of history and rolled them into a hyper-fascist theocracy. Which is 100% legitimate and interesting from a creative perspective ... but the TV series became a ridiculous point of reference for the fantastical ignorance of some populists who loved think of this as the interpretation of their political enemies. As a TV series it's great fun. But when it's used beyond that (or more poignantly, used by the studios to play into people's bigotry) then it's not good. Edit: please see my above comment for reference as to how most of the media picked up on this piece as the basis for a narrative. It's not some corner case conspiracy - it was used by NPR, RollingStone, Wapo, Medium, The Guardian etc. etc..
- openandshut 5y ago
  How do I find more people that think like you to associate with? My circles either A. were totally ignorant of stuff like Cat Person because they don't read a whole lot of anything or B. latch on to stuff like Cat Person and engage with populist ideal narratives. I've basically isolated myself from most people I used to talk to and engage with because I couldn't take lying for politeness sake about how I perceive reality anymore.
juliusmusseau 5y ago
Good fiction is not usually judged for how true it depicts a real living person. Heck, even actual Biography (non fiction) isn't even judged that way. Cat Person succeeds because it captures a deeper truth. And boy does that story touch a nerve - a mirror that is hard to look at because of its truth.
- scotty79 5y ago
  Is it a truth though? Seems more like a grim fantasy that's rather exception than the rule. The reality seems much richer and more interesting than the fiction in this case.

bitwize 5y ago

Roupenian kind of gave a sorry-not-sorry apology. There's a subtext of "I'm sorry I used your friend's personal details, but you're missing the point which is that the story is fake but accurate -- male anger escalates into threats and violence and by calling me out you're adding fuel to the incel fire I'm facing right now because I'm a woman who writes about the bad things men do." And a deeper subtext of "Remember, sister, I am not the villain here; the patriarchy is."

civilized 5y ago
Maybe Roupenian actually, literally faces threats from men who didn't like her story. It... wouldn't be the first time people harassed a writer for a creative work they took to be offensive.
- mlyle 5y ago
  Nothing justifies threats. But in this case, the reasons that this would offend people -- that it makes untrue and unfair accusations about a real-world case-- are true. Or even worse than one would assume, even, in that it's not autobiographical and does the same about identifiable third parties.
  - tptacek 5y ago
    It does not in fact make untrue and unfair accusations about a real world case. It is a work of fiction. Until this Slate article came out, there were, like, 4 people in the world that know about the story's inspiration.
    - jollybean 5y ago
      It's not really about 'real world, individual people'. It's a #MeToo era-story which is used to narrate supposedly 'real world threats'. The reason that some might be upset, is because you have a real world story of a 'nice guy' - who was used as the basis to narrative a story about how 'men are bad' aka a warning about 'toxic masculinity' etc.. Here is 'The Atlantic's headline of the original 2017 publication: "The depiction of uncomfortable romance in "Cat Person" seems to resonate with countless women." [1] Here is NPR's headline: "'Cat Person' Author's New Book Evokes #MeToo Themes" [2] WaPo: "Opinion: ‘Cat Person’ is a next step in the #MeToo movement" [3] So that's literally the first three pieces that came up in the Google search - and those three publications are 'major, respected, institutions'. All three are using the 'creative fiction' to promote a narrative about men's supposed actions etc.. It's obviously not just about 'some random bit of fiction that happened to be about real people and those real people are upset'. If this was Stephen King, who used his 'Real Life Doctor' as the inspiration for some diabolical character - that would be the story. But there wouldn't be any elevation of the story into some kind of narrative in that case ... so it'd just be about a possibly upset Doctor. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/12/a-viral-short-story-for-the-metoo-moment/548009/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/12/a-vir... [2] https://www.npr.org/2019/01/13/684894872/cat-person-author-s-new-book-evokes-metoo-themes https://www.npr.org/2019/01/13/684894872/cat-person-author-s... [3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2017/12/11/why-cat-person-went-viral/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2017/1... Edit: Here's a gem [4] it's literally an academic publication using the original story as basis for describing narcissism in the role of the oppression of women. "I argue that Beauvoir’s notion of narcissism is an important tool for feminists today—well beyond the interpretation of Cat Person. It presses us to see systematic subordination not just as something done to women, but also as something women do to themselves. This in turn highlights the neglected role of self-transformation as a key aspect of feminist political resistance." This is pseudo-intellectual hyperbole (published!) over a story that amounts to a giant lie. It's intellectual bigotry. [4] https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjE6eW61NfxAhUESN8KHazTCakQFjARegQIFhAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Fphilarchive.org%2Farchive%2FMELHVH&usg=AOvVaw1gAKHoUWZ9U6C0lxUE_pS2 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c...

jollybean 5y ago

The issue has nothing to do with creative fiction. Nobody is bothered by stories that might use real life as a basis of inspiration. The issue is that these stories are latched onto as 'narrative basis' for some kind of populist ideal, which may frankly just be bigotry. The story was not picked up upon because it was just 'great writing' - it created buzz because it engendered a kind of bigoted fantasy among those that wanted to buy into the potential truthiness of it all. Like the 'Man Next Door Who Raped The White Girl' (i.e. Black man) from the 'Reader's Digest', 1952 etc. It's an issue because people can do whatever they want under the guise of creative fiction, and then try to use it as some kind of scare mongering re: 'This could happen! This is happening!' I'm Canadian, we had to read the Handmaid's Tale in school. Margaret Atwood is famous for saying 'all these things happened somewhere in history' - essentially she cherry picked the absolute worst bits of history and rolled them into a hyper-fascist theocracy. Which is 100% legitimate and interesting from a creative perspective ... but the TV series became a ridiculous point of reference for the fantastical ignorance of some populists who loved think of this as the interpretation of their political enemies. As a TV series it's great fun. But when it's used beyond that (or more poignantly, used by the studios to play into people's bigotry) then it's not good. Edit: please see my above comment for reference as to how most of the media picked up on this piece as the basis for a narrative. It's not some corner case conspiracy - it was used by NPR, RollingStone, Wapo, Medium, The Guardian etc. etc..

openandshut 5y ago
How do I find more people that think like you to associate with? My circles either A. were totally ignorant of stuff like Cat Person because they don't read a whole lot of anything or B. latch on to stuff like Cat Person and engage with populist ideal narratives. I've basically isolated myself from most people I used to talk to and engage with because I couldn't take lying for politeness sake about how I perceive reality anymore.

juliusmusseau 5y ago

Good fiction is not usually judged for how true it depicts a real living person. Heck, even actual Biography (non fiction) isn't even judged that way. Cat Person succeeds because it captures a deeper truth. And boy does that story touch a nerve - a mirror that is hard to look at because of its truth.

scotty79 5y ago
Is it a truth though? Seems more like a grim fantasy that's rather exception than the rule. The reality seems much richer and more interesting than the fiction in this case.