4 ms·

> There’s a bazillion candidates out there. Other than cannabis, and maybe psychedelic mushrooms, what candidates are there exactly?

black_puppydog 5y ago
Most other research chemicals, really. Check "TIHKAL: The Continuation" for some discussion :P
pstuart 5y ago
kratom makes a good replacement for alcohol
- JohnWhigham 5y ago
  Personally, I don't see the recreational value. For me it was a very, very weak opiate high that wore off in an hour and whose tolerance builds up extremely fast. It should be more widely available though since people have said it helps them taper off actual opiates.
  - pstuart 5y ago
    There's a lot of variability of response, but plenty of people report on /r/kratom that it's helped wean them from alcohol. It certainly helped me. It's not without concerns (tolerance/addiction) but for those who respond well it is incredibly valuable.
- anoraca 5y ago
  My observation of this substance was that it was similar to a low grade opiate and seemed to be quite habit forming among several people I knew that tried it.
- herbst 5y ago
  I am all for allowing natural drug use, however I know several people who developed actual addictions to Kratom. I mean they all got over it when they made it illegal (I think) but still would be careful about recommending it without disclaimer.
  - pstuart 5y ago
    Yeah it has it's issues as well and I normally include that in the proposition. It's been a struggle for me as well, but it's worth it for the upside.
yao420 5y ago
Phenibute is popular in fitness communities as an alternative to alcohol when going out.
- exo-pla-net 5y ago
  Chronic use of Phenibut is associated with psychosis and physical dependence. Alcohol is no angel, but Phenibut is probably not the answer. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6758981/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6758981/
drew1492 5y ago
GHB, for one, is said to be all the best parts of alcohol with less of the downsides. It's still addictive and super illegal though, has the stigma of being a "date-rape drug", is maybe more neurotoxic than ethanol (excitotoxicity may be more in play), but definitely less toxic for the rest of the organ systems, and non-carcinogenic. Kava, a beverage made from the roots of the piper methysticum plant, is broadly similar to alcohol, but milder, more sedate, non-addictive, non-toxic, and legal almost everywhere in the world. It's expensive though (only grows in the tropics), tastes like dirt-water, and takes a bit of work to prepare. English neuropharmacologist David Nutt has been reportedly working on a synthetic less-toxic alternative to alcohol for years, but it's unsure if anything will ever come of it.

black_puppydog 5y ago

Most other research chemicals, really. Check "TIHKAL: The Continuation" for some discussion :P

pstuart 5y ago

kratom makes a good replacement for alcohol

JohnWhigham 5y ago
Personally, I don't see the recreational value. For me it was a very, very weak opiate high that wore off in an hour and whose tolerance builds up extremely fast. It should be more widely available though since people have said it helps them taper off actual opiates.
- pstuart 5y ago
  There's a lot of variability of response, but plenty of people report on /r/kratom that it's helped wean them from alcohol. It certainly helped me. It's not without concerns (tolerance/addiction) but for those who respond well it is incredibly valuable.
anoraca 5y ago
My observation of this substance was that it was similar to a low grade opiate and seemed to be quite habit forming among several people I knew that tried it.
herbst 5y ago
I am all for allowing natural drug use, however I know several people who developed actual addictions to Kratom. I mean they all got over it when they made it illegal (I think) but still would be careful about recommending it without disclaimer.
- pstuart 5y ago
  Yeah it has it's issues as well and I normally include that in the proposition. It's been a struggle for me as well, but it's worth it for the upside.

yao420 5y ago

Phenibute is popular in fitness communities as an alternative to alcohol when going out.

exo-pla-net 5y ago
Chronic use of Phenibut is associated with psychosis and physical dependence. Alcohol is no angel, but Phenibut is probably not the answer. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6758981/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6758981/

drew1492 5y ago

GHB, for one, is said to be all the best parts of alcohol with less of the downsides. It's still addictive and super illegal though, has the stigma of being a "date-rape drug", is maybe more neurotoxic than ethanol (excitotoxicity may be more in play), but definitely less toxic for the rest of the organ systems, and non-carcinogenic. Kava, a beverage made from the roots of the piper methysticum plant, is broadly similar to alcohol, but milder, more sedate, non-addictive, non-toxic, and legal almost everywhere in the world. It's expensive though (only grows in the tropics), tastes like dirt-water, and takes a bit of work to prepare. English neuropharmacologist David Nutt has been reportedly working on a synthetic less-toxic alternative to alcohol for years, but it's unsure if anything will ever come of it.