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@piva00 Really? I rarely hear people comment on things like that in the U.S. except in really regulated industries like healthcare and finance. When you can sta

@piva00 Really? I rarely hear people comment on things like that in the U.S. except in really regulated industries like healthcare and finance. When you can start a company via Stripe Atlas in a few mins and get a bank account, that seems relatively streamlined. Plus workers rights are minimal so you can easily fire people in most right to work states, etc.

raverbashing 5y ago
> When you can start a company via Stripe Atlas in a few mins and get a bank account, that seems relatively streamlined Correct, but that's a small part of it. In fact why would you even need Stripe Atlas if it's easy to open? Not forgetting a lot of state/city bureaucracy and also what I call private bureaucracy and complications. (as in landlords, clients, service providers, etc) Bureaucracy is a bit like "the air", people who are born onto it don't see it and don't understand too much how it can be different (of course, in the most egregious cases it wouldn't be hard to optimize/simplify) BUT there's a bit of blindness when it refers to your own country's bureaucracy. (and of course, there are always things that are done 'under the table')
- atlasunshrugged 5y ago
  Yep, I partially withdraw my previous statement. You make an excellent point- I guess as someone who just grew up in the US and understands the legalese and ways of doing business and where to look it probably seems a lot easier than it would be to someone totally new to the country. Still probably better than much of the EU with a few exceptions like NL and Estonia but point well taken.
jahewson 5y ago
No you have it backwards. Stripe Atlas only exists because registering a business here sucks. I can start a business in the UK via the government website in a few minutes for a cost of £14/yr. In the US I had to use a 3rd party service because the process is total garbage, takes weeks to complete and requires sending physical paperwork and checks to Sacramento. I have to register in both Delaware and my home state, pay minimum, mandatory taxes to both, totalling ~1000$/yr and pay $100/yr for someone to sit in an office and receive mail in case I get sued. I also have to file physical paperwork with my local city (despite no physical presence) and pay yet more fees. It’s rent-seeking, antiquated multi-level bureaucratic garbage and there’s zero interest in improving it because that would cost money. After all that I get the joy of filing taxes with all those entities, plus the federal government.
- atlasunshrugged 5y ago
  @jahewson - you make an excellent point. I guess that's also why something like mainstreet.com exists. I've registered a business online myself in the US (Nevada) and it wasn't that hard but it doesn't sound as easy as it is in the UK. That said, I'm skeptical that the US is less business friendly than Europe overall.
  - jahewson 5y ago
    Overall is probably not a great measure because a business exists somewhere, not everywhere. The US is I think really only big-business friendly. If you’re a little guy they could care less about you. New business formation is dwindling. For example in most US states an employer can prevent you operating an unrelated side-business - how is that “business friendly”? The answer is it’s not - it’s capital-friendly. It has the effect of shutting out the broader populous from participating in business on their own terms. California gets this right! There’s also the question of what level “overall” is measured. The US makes it easy to exploit workers and so suffers the consequence of having to support an impoverished strata of society which generates negative tax income to the government. In a society that prevents this, the government can receive more taxes from more people and offer more services, including making business formation easier - a virtuous cycle.
- gamblor956 5y ago
  In California you can register a business in literally minutes yourself (https://www.sos.ca.gov/business-programs/business-entities/forms https://www.sos.ca.gov/business-programs/business-entities/f...). If you paid a third party to do so...that's on you. You weren't required to use a third party agent for service of (legal) process. Moreover, if you decided to register in a second state (Delaware), that's on you as well. If you don't want to pay taxes for your business in the places where it does business...then why did you register in multiple states in the first place? I also have to file physical paperwork with my local city (despite no physical presence) and pay yet more fees. This makes no sense. How do you not have a physical presence in your "local" city. The physical presence is a pretty key part of the "local" bit. (Note that "physical presence" includes employees (and employee-owners) not just dedicated offices or facilities.) Basically, you're complaining entirely about self-inflicted problems.

raverbashing 5y ago

> When you can start a company via Stripe Atlas in a few mins and get a bank account, that seems relatively streamlined Correct, but that's a small part of it. In fact why would you even need Stripe Atlas if it's easy to open? Not forgetting a lot of state/city bureaucracy and also what I call private bureaucracy and complications. (as in landlords, clients, service providers, etc) Bureaucracy is a bit like "the air", people who are born onto it don't see it and don't understand too much how it can be different (of course, in the most egregious cases it wouldn't be hard to optimize/simplify) BUT there's a bit of blindness when it refers to your own country's bureaucracy. (and of course, there are always things that are done 'under the table')

atlasunshrugged 5y ago
Yep, I partially withdraw my previous statement. You make an excellent point- I guess as someone who just grew up in the US and understands the legalese and ways of doing business and where to look it probably seems a lot easier than it would be to someone totally new to the country. Still probably better than much of the EU with a few exceptions like NL and Estonia but point well taken.

jahewson 5y ago

No you have it backwards. Stripe Atlas only exists because registering a business here sucks. I can start a business in the UK via the government website in a few minutes for a cost of £14/yr. In the US I had to use a 3rd party service because the process is total garbage, takes weeks to complete and requires sending physical paperwork and checks to Sacramento. I have to register in both Delaware and my home state, pay minimum, mandatory taxes to both, totalling ~1000$/yr and pay $100/yr for someone to sit in an office and receive mail in case I get sued. I also have to file physical paperwork with my local city (despite no physical presence) and pay yet more fees. It’s rent-seeking, antiquated multi-level bureaucratic garbage and there’s zero interest in improving it because that would cost money. After all that I get the joy of filing taxes with all those entities, plus the federal government.

atlasunshrugged 5y ago
@jahewson - you make an excellent point. I guess that's also why something like mainstreet.com exists. I've registered a business online myself in the US (Nevada) and it wasn't that hard but it doesn't sound as easy as it is in the UK. That said, I'm skeptical that the US is less business friendly than Europe overall.
- jahewson 5y ago
  Overall is probably not a great measure because a business exists somewhere, not everywhere. The US is I think really only big-business friendly. If you’re a little guy they could care less about you. New business formation is dwindling. For example in most US states an employer can prevent you operating an unrelated side-business - how is that “business friendly”? The answer is it’s not - it’s capital-friendly. It has the effect of shutting out the broader populous from participating in business on their own terms. California gets this right! There’s also the question of what level “overall” is measured. The US makes it easy to exploit workers and so suffers the consequence of having to support an impoverished strata of society which generates negative tax income to the government. In a society that prevents this, the government can receive more taxes from more people and offer more services, including making business formation easier - a virtuous cycle.
gamblor956 5y ago
In California you can register a business in literally minutes yourself (https://www.sos.ca.gov/business-programs/business-entities/forms https://www.sos.ca.gov/business-programs/business-entities/f...). If you paid a third party to do so...that's on you. You weren't required to use a third party agent for service of (legal) process. Moreover, if you decided to register in a second state (Delaware), that's on you as well. If you don't want to pay taxes for your business in the places where it does business...then why did you register in multiple states in the first place? I also have to file physical paperwork with my local city (despite no physical presence) and pay yet more fees. This makes no sense. How do you not have a physical presence in your "local" city. The physical presence is a pretty key part of the "local" bit. (Note that "physical presence" includes employees (and employee-owners) not just dedicated offices or facilities.) Basically, you're complaining entirely about self-inflicted problems.