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I don't like Graal. Java used to be free without any performance restrictions, you can pay for support and that's about it. There were niche JVMs like Azul. Hop

I don't like Graal. Java used to be free without any performance restrictions, you can pay for support and that's about it. There were niche JVMs like Azul. Hopefully Graal will not overshadow OpenJDK, but the fact that both implementations are from one company makes that worrisome.

vips7L 5y ago
It is worrisome. For native-image they're restricting the G1GC behind the enterprise license even though G1 is the default in OpenJdk/HotSpot.
- kaba0 5y ago
  Just another view point - it is very much a research project at this phase from Oracle Lab. They do need some form of funding for that.
perrylaj 5y ago
I think there is good reason to get worried. My understanding is that third party proposed changes and PRs on the open source version have been denied because they would lessen the benefits of Enterprise. In addition, the lack of certification prevents commercial 3rd party JDK vendors from attempting to support it. Unfortunate, because I'd love to build some prototypes based on graal features, but Oracle's apparent disinterest in supporting community contributions, and the questions around licensing of parts of the graal ecosystem leaves me worried enough to avoid it for now.
kaba0 5y ago
One is still very much in the R&D phase, so they are hardly competitors. Also, GraalVM needs OpenJDK (except for native, but that’s not the most interesting part), so I don’t see a problem arising from that.
sk5t 5y ago
Doesn't Graal require that none of Java's reflection stuff be used? e.g. Class.forName, Class.getFields, runtime DI frameworks, and so on. This would seem to majorly limit the cases where it might be used.
- merb 5y ago
  no it does not. if you use native-image, thats on another level tough.
- shellac 5y ago
  You're (understandably) conflating GraalVM, a JVM using Graal to jit, with Graal Native which compiles java to native code ahead of time. The latter needs some help with runtime features that obscure which code is run. This is about the former.
  - sk5t 5y ago
    Ah right you are, and I've only experimented with Graal to build native images.

vips7L 5y ago

It is worrisome. For native-image they're restricting the G1GC behind the enterprise license even though G1 is the default in OpenJdk/HotSpot.

kaba0 5y ago
Just another view point - it is very much a research project at this phase from Oracle Lab. They do need some form of funding for that.

perrylaj 5y ago

I think there is good reason to get worried. My understanding is that third party proposed changes and PRs on the open source version have been denied because they would lessen the benefits of Enterprise. In addition, the lack of certification prevents commercial 3rd party JDK vendors from attempting to support it. Unfortunate, because I'd love to build some prototypes based on graal features, but Oracle's apparent disinterest in supporting community contributions, and the questions around licensing of parts of the graal ecosystem leaves me worried enough to avoid it for now.

kaba0 5y ago

One is still very much in the R&D phase, so they are hardly competitors. Also, GraalVM needs OpenJDK (except for native, but that’s not the most interesting part), so I don’t see a problem arising from that.

sk5t 5y ago

Doesn't Graal require that none of Java's reflection stuff be used? e.g. Class.forName, Class.getFields, runtime DI frameworks, and so on. This would seem to majorly limit the cases where it might be used.

merb 5y ago
no it does not. if you use native-image, thats on another level tough.
shellac 5y ago
You're (understandably) conflating GraalVM, a JVM using Graal to jit, with Graal Native which compiles java to native code ahead of time. The latter needs some help with runtime features that obscure which code is run. This is about the former.
- sk5t 5y ago
  Ah right you are, and I've only experimented with Graal to build native images.