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web micro frameworks are evil although they don't look like that in the beginning, I advice to avoid them by all means. IMO, even though pylons 1.0 is now froz

by halayli 15y ago

web micro frameworks are evil although they don't look like that in the beginning, I advice to avoid them by all means. IMO, even though pylons 1.0 is now frozen, it is still one of the most flexible frameworks out there.

tmhedberg 15y ago
Care to qualify this highly general and rather hyperbolic statement? Which specific aspects of "micro" frameworks do you find to be "evil"?
- fragsworth 15y ago
  You tend to need to add features in unforeseen ways. Popular large frameworks can facilitate this more than micro-frameworks can, resulting in less work on the developer's part.
- halayli 15y ago
  micro frameworks provide incomplete feature set. You tend to reinvent the wheel many times. I see no advantage in using them when I can have something more complete and feature rich.
  - espeed 15y ago
    Because as your app grows and you need more custom behavior, you find that you start stripping out the full-stack framework features and you end up with using it like a micro framework, which it wasn't designed to be so you have now have a framework mismatch.
    - halayli 15y ago
      pylons is a glue framework. It allows you to replace whatever you want, easily and without losing other framework features.
jiri 15y ago
I like pylons a lot and I am using it for few projects, but I hate dependecy on many libraries, things get complicated this way very soon. For smaller sites I recommend web2py - it is one package and it is very straightforward and easy although Pylons seems to be more flexible.
- halayli 15y ago
  dependencies are taken care of by pylons once it gets installed. I like that Ben made it this way because many of these dependencies can be reused in other projects.
mdda 15y ago
Has anyone else moved over to Pyramid (next iteration for Pylons - particularly with the Akhet suite : mako, beaker, SQLalchemy)? I'm surprised it isn't mentioned on HN more.
- espeed 15y ago
  I liked Pylons and I wanted to like Pyramid but couldn't get into it. Then I discovered Flask (http://flask.pocoo.org http://flask.pocoo.org) and moved on to using it with Bulbflow (http://bulbflow.com http://bulbflow.com).

by halayli 15y ago

tmhedberg 15y ago

Care to qualify this highly general and rather hyperbolic statement? Which specific aspects of "micro" frameworks do you find to be "evil"?

fragsworth 15y ago
You tend to need to add features in unforeseen ways. Popular large frameworks can facilitate this more than micro-frameworks can, resulting in less work on the developer's part.
halayli 15y ago
micro frameworks provide incomplete feature set. You tend to reinvent the wheel many times. I see no advantage in using them when I can have something more complete and feature rich.
- espeed 15y ago
  Because as your app grows and you need more custom behavior, you find that you start stripping out the full-stack framework features and you end up with using it like a micro framework, which it wasn't designed to be so you have now have a framework mismatch.
  - halayli 15y ago
    pylons is a glue framework. It allows you to replace whatever you want, easily and without losing other framework features.

jiri 15y ago

I like pylons a lot and I am using it for few projects, but I hate dependecy on many libraries, things get complicated this way very soon. For smaller sites I recommend web2py - it is one package and it is very straightforward and easy although Pylons seems to be more flexible.

halayli 15y ago
dependencies are taken care of by pylons once it gets installed. I like that Ben made it this way because many of these dependencies can be reused in other projects.

mdda 15y ago

Has anyone else moved over to Pyramid (next iteration for Pylons - particularly with the Akhet suite : mako, beaker, SQLalchemy)? I'm surprised it isn't mentioned on HN more.

espeed 15y ago
I liked Pylons and I wanted to like Pyramid but couldn't get into it. Then I discovered Flask (http://flask.pocoo.org http://flask.pocoo.org) and moved on to using it with Bulbflow (http://bulbflow.com http://bulbflow.com).